[Dambugg]

I am posting this in hunting because I am ordering a Savage model 11 to hunt with. I want input on the performance of budget optic components in regards to the conditions a rifle is subject to in the harsh conditions of hunting. Rifles get dropped, and generally dinged around a bit in the field and I would like to hear some real life testimonials of budget optics components staying true through these conditions. Thanks so much in advance for your responses. Damian

[Smokey Joe]

Dambugg--It's even more true with optics than with most other things: You get what you pay for. Buy el cheapo optics, get el cheapo optics.

Then put up with things like distortion toward the edge, wandering POI when you change magnification, refusal to maintain zero, etc, etc, ad damnation. These sorts of problems are even more likely to bedevil you with a rifle subject to hard usage. Not to mention generally poorer light transmission.

Cheap optics are no bargain--You end up replacing them, often at your own expense, and they may cause you to miss your one shot at The Jordan Buck, when he appears momentarily, just at dusk.

My rule of thumb is, (1) Spend about as much on the optics as you spent on the rifle, and (2) If you can't afford decent optics, you can't afford the rifle in the first place.

I shot a leg off a deer once because of wandering zero on a cheap 'scope. The wandering zero showed up without warning, after several years of use. Tracked the deer and lost it. Never again.

[ArmedBear]

I'm happy with and confident in my Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40mm Ballistic Plex scope on Warne QD rings and Warne bases.

Warnes aren't "budget" but they're worth the money. The scope is "budget" in that it was around $200 when I bought it on sale. I wouldn't go a penny cheaper than the Fullfield II on a hunting rifle. It's durable, has a nice picture, and it holds zero like a champ.

I've bought cheap scopes. They were a waste of money and I ended up replacing them for the reasons Smokey Joe mentions (eye-straining distortion and/or wandering zero). Should have spent the money on a decent one up front.

You probably don't need a Swarovski as an American hunter, but don't go too cheap.

[chas08]

You probably don't need a Swarovski as an American hunter, but don't go too cheap.
+ 1 on the Burris Fullfield II. I have one on a Bushmaster V-Match and one on a Remington 700 .243, excellent service from both. I've also had good service from Leupold in VX II & III as well as a Pentax LightSeeker. I have to echo that cheap optics are no bargain. As for rings and bases, all but one of mine have either Leupold or Redfield rings and bases. The only cheap set of rings and bases I own are on my largest caliber rifle, also the first one I ever bought, a 7mm. Rem. Mag. and have been on there since 1976, a set of Weavers. I wore out a weaver K-4 and a Bushnell Banner 3x9 on that gun. I hope the Pentax thats on it now will last my lifetime. They seem to hold a good zero, I havent had to adjust the scope in the nine years I've owned it.

[Dambugg]

This is what I have right now. My current hunting rifle is Rem 700 sps in .308 with Leupold dual dovetail bases, steel Leupold rings, topped with a 3x9x40 Mueller sport dot scope. I am a left handed shooter. I like my Rem very much but after handling a new Savage 110 lefty in blued/walnut I felt like the rifle just molded to me. So I am selling the Rem and moving on.
I am happy with the Mueller as it has been dropped and not lost center. I am leaning towards other scopes as the Mueller is rather high in profile and I feel I can do better for under $200. I am looking at Weaver aluminum bases and rings as I want the rifle to be as light as possible.

[chas08]

Does that savage have the Accu-Trigger? I've fired and dry fired one of those. A very nice hunting trigger right out of the box. I don't own one, but I would. The Fullfield II seems fairly low profile to me. And that Ballistic Plex reticle really does work.

[ArmedBear]

The Fullfield II seems fairly low profile to me.

I have mine on a .30-06 on low Warne rings. It's close to the barrel, but not too close for comfort. Works great that way.

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=100448&d=1246054176

[Dambugg]

Chas08
I will be ordering a new Savage model 11 in .308 so it will have the accu trigger. That trigger is a huge selling point. Comparing the stock pulls of the Savage and My Remington is like comparing Caramel to Gravel for an ice cream topping. The Rem is a great rifle but the triggers need a gunsmith IMO.

[ArmedBear]

WRT the Ballistic Plex: I really am dead-on at 100, 200, 300 yards. I have practiced in field conditions with it, and it's no sweat hitting whatever I want to out to 325 (so far that's as far as I've tried it) with something to rest the gun on when it gets that far out.

The Rem is a great rifle but the triggers need a gunsmith IMO.

Needs more than that.

[Art Eatman]

The only dinged scope I've ever had was because I was dumb enough to loan a good rifle to a clumsy-footed friend.

I've made some involuntary descents down some rough hillsides, and lost a bit of skin, but I never hurt the scope. :)

I've been using Weaver rings and bases since 1950. They work as good as anything else. For deer hunting, anything more than a Weaver K4 or equivalent quality/price is merely showing the power of your billfold. You're not gonna kill any more deer than anybody else by paying more or buying more magnification.

[Smokey Joe]

Dambugg--Gotta agree w/Charles 08--The Accutrigger is [Tony the Tiger voice] GRRRRRRRRR--eatt!!![/Tony the Tiger voice]

The other thing is, IMX, my sad X, aluminum rings are prone to stripping their threads when steel screws are inserted therein and tightened. Rings are small compared to the rest of the rifle/scope setup. The weight differential between steel and aluminum rings & bases is too small to notice. Go ahead and get steel rings and bases, that won't strip out when you tighten the screws "just a little bit."

I don't have micrometers for fingers. I don't normally carry a torque wrench on my belt. I also don't want the screws holding the 'scope and the rifle together to unnoticeably become loose. How to avoid problems? Use bases and rings that don't mind quite so much, being tightened. Aluminum is great for some applications. This is not one of them. Steel Rings. Steel Bases.

[Geno]

I use picatinny rails on all of my centerfire rifles because I like to remove the scopes during transport. In terms of rings, I like Leupolds...steel of course. I still say that one of the best scopes I ever had was a straight 4X Tasco. It just plain worked! I have taken plenty of deer at 300 yards+ with a 4X. Unless you punch targets, or attempt very long shots, a 4X is great. If all of your shots will be 200 to 300 yards, consider a straight 6X.

[chas08]

The Rem is a great rifle but the triggers need a gunsmith IMO.
Yep, and all of them in our family stable of 700's have been there and done that. I got them all set at 2.5 lbs. That accu-trigger though, is truly sweet. I wouldn't mind owning one in 22/250 if they make one. It would be a Ground Hog killing machine to take to my fatherinlaws farm in N.C.

[greyling22]

nikon prostaff is a fine scope for $150.
I've had luck with simmons and tasco, but general consensus is that they are a crap shoot for quality. I hear that people who have the walmart center points have been pleased, but I have no personal experience with them.

[UniversalFrost]

check swfa.com for the swift line of scopes. good scopes at cheap prices.

also, i like the nikon buckmaster scopes, but buy them on the cheap and don't pay retail. depending on the model, the buckmasters are actually old stock monarch UCC's that nikon rebranded (straight from swfa and several other optics resellers ) and the glass i have on the few buckmasters i own is just as good as the monarchs and leuopold vxIII's i have. i have been lucky to score the buckmaster scopes i have either on major discounts from online stores or through ebay. they will sell for more than a prostaff model, but if you time it right (look for late evening or early morning auctions or auctions in the wrong section) you can score one for the price of a prostaff.

also, egw makes a good picatinny style base (midwayusa.com) if you want a weaver/picatinny style and the weaver quad lock rings are good and hold up to magnum recoil (just replace the screws for the rings with screws from lowes etc... because the screws are real soft and the heads strip out). otherwise leupold rifleman rings and bases have been good for me on low end hunting rigs. also ebay and gunbroker have lots of deals on bases and rings for redfield/leupold style that are way below retial because lots of shops have closed and are trying to get rid of left over inventory.

an example of this is I just scored off gunbroker a 1 piece leupold quick release base for my newly purchased remmy 700 long action for only $15 (they retail for $59.99) and then scored on ebay a set of low and medium rings for the base for only $30 (they retail for around $39 for each set).

you just gotta look around and be in the right place at the right time.

JOE

[rhoggman]

Nothing wrong with buying a really nice scope, and if you have the money by all means do; however, the Bushnell Banner series are very good performers. They mostly run 80-100 dollars.

I have one on a .22lr bolt gun & one on a 7mm Mag.

Both have taken a beating (especially the 22lr), and I have never har a single problem with either.

I can kill a squirrel at 80-100 yards with my 22lr Winchest Wildcat rifle, and it only has a 2x7 Bushnell Banner ($20 scope rings from Dick's) on it. I have thrown that rifle around and beat the crap out if it. At normal ranges 15-50 yards I can put a bullet exactly where I want it to go. I'm just not sure how a more expensive scope/ rings could improve anything. Like I said I can kill a squirrel at 60 - 100 no problem at that point it just becomes a steadiness issue. From a treestand this is not an issue. Also if I want to switch ammo I can usually dial the scope in in 3 shots.

With the 7mmM I have a 3x9 Bushnell Banner. Once again.... I have never taken a shot over 200yards, but have never had the opportunity as of yet. So far I have not encountered a "oh crap my scope is garbage" situation. In fact... it is spot on, and has never changed POA regardless of focus, or zooming in and out.

Do I want to upgrade..... Yes, but I am just sharing my experience :)

[okierifleman]

IMHO, Leupold makes absolutely the best glass for the money. You can pick several up new within your budget and you can pick up some higher quality models used within also. Watch Ebay, I have bought several used Leupolds off of there and gotten great deals on them.

[UniversalFrost]

also watchout for fake leupolds on ebay.

contact the seller and ask for the serial number and then run it through leupold. they can verify over the phone whether it is legit or one of the tagged serials that has been identified as fake (still a chance to get a fake, but lot better chance of getting a legit one).

as for prices. I paid $105 for my buckmaster 3-9x40 with team realtree coating and then my 3-9x40 buckmaster with BDC reticle i scored for $120 (both new with boxes and full warranties). Also just scored one of the predator models for $135 (new in box).

JOE

[UniversalFrost]

here is a link to the review i did on the nikon buckmaster team realtree scope

http://www.azsj.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17219

[MCgunner]

I like Weaver scopes (200 dollar budget) and Millett rings and mounts. Neither is bottom dollar budget, but both are good values for the money spent. Nikon makes some good "budget" scopes and the high end Bushnells are decent. Avoid the 40-100 dollar walmart stuff. I don't have a high opinion of Simmons, either.

[MCgunner]

The Rem is a great rifle but the triggers need a gunsmith IMO.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/RemingtonTriggers.asp

[UniversalFrost]

yeah about the only simmons i have used that are worth their cost is the 44mag series (now discontinued) and the aetec's, but for the retail price of an aetec you can pick up a nikon buckmaster, leupold vxi or ii, or a higher powered fullfield.

also warne makes good rings and bases, but they are $$$ and not for those on a budget.

[Dambugg]

MCgunner I read that article a while back it is a great read. It's unfortunate what irresponsible people force reputable manufacturers into.
As of this moment I am leaning to either a burris fullfield II. Thanks for the heads up armed bear. Or a Nikon Buckmaster. A few years ago I topped my brothers sporterized 1917 Enfield with a buckmaster as a birthday present and it is a great scope. As far as bases and rings go it's going to be Leupold dual dovetails with matching steel rings. I have them on my rem which was knocked off a bench falling three and a half feet on the scope and guess what,,,,,,, it held center. No damage to rifle either.

There has been a new development in the rifle dept. I told my wife I was selling the Rem to finance the Savage. I got a call yesterday from my wife asking the specifics of the rifle I wanted. She said her mom wanted to know. Her mom, my mil, is good friends with an ffl holder. I told her what I wanted left handed, Savage, .308, blued/walnut, accutrigger. Here's where it gets good she has been going crazy trying to figure out what to get me for Christmas. So fingers crossed it might just be a Savage Christmas. If so the dough from the rifle goes to pay bills. If not it's sure nice having a pro gun/hunting family.