[Strings]

Hi all. Need some advice/help for a friend in St Paul. Story goes like this:

A friend of mine voluntarily surrendered his weapons collection to police (why is a VERY long story), with the understanding that they would be returned. The chief of police has decided that they will instead be destroyed "in the interest of public safety". NRA has been notified, but any suggestions as to other things that could be done? Or anyone out in that area that may be able to help?

[HankB]

with the understanding that they would be returned. There's an old saying that if the agreement isn't in writing, it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

Without details on WHY he surrendered his collection, I doubt that even an attorney could advise.

Your friend needs to contact a lawyer up in the St. Paul area - an internet forum isn't the best place to get legal advice when your back (or your friend's) is against the wall.

If your friend is serious about getting his stuff back, it will probably take an attorney just to get an injunction to keep the cops from destroying the collection while things are being sorted out.

[Andrew Rothman]

Ask Joel Rosenberg at www.ellegon.com -- joelr (at) ellegon (dot) com -- he's pretty plugged in, and could probably refer your friend to a good pro-gun lawyer.

[BowStreetRunner]

tell the chief that "in the interest of public safety" all guns carried by his officers will be confiscated and destroyed

[Hkmp5sd]

His only recourse is to file a lawsuit and as HankB stated, he needs to rapidly get an injunction to prevent their immediate destruction.

Just for amusement, he should go to the station and file a grand theft report against the chief. And if he happens to have a C&R license, he can file a theft report with the FBI. It is a federal crime to steal firearms from an FFL. :)

[Kharn]

"he can file a theft report with the FBI"

I thought FFLs notified the ATF, not the FBI, if a firearm was found to be missing?

Kharn

[Hkmp5sd]

Yea, you're right. ATF instead of FBI for the initial report.

[Strings]

A bit more detail might help, I suppose...

My friend had gotten a bit drunk, and was busy being sick in the bathroom after getting disconected from his wife on the phone (she works ren faires all over the country). When she couldn't get him back on the phone, she panicked and called the po-po. They asked on arival if there were any weapons in the house, and he told them where everything was and what condition it was in (loaded/unloaded). They asked if they could remove them temporarily, and he said yes (I know... BIG mistake)...

He was never charged with any crime, and volunteered to go to the hospital. He was told that, upon review, his weapons would be returned. The chief's letter said they would be destroyed "in the interest of public safety", barring an order from a court or the DA...

Is this making anyone else think someone's trying to pull something? Two of the weapons confiscated were a)Type 8 Arasaka and b)NCO's katana, both still possessing their crests...

[TheeBadOne]

Did your friend at any time make any comments about self-harm (to either the wife or cops)?

[Strings]

there were no comments made at any point about hurting anybody. his wife called the police because she was afraid he was having a VERY bad reaction to the alchohol (which he was, just not as bad as she thought)...

[Old Fuff]

Your friend need to get a lawyer fast. The first thing that's necessary is an injunction to stop the police from destroying the guns. The next would be to ask the court for a "show cause" hearing, during which the police would have to show that they have both a legal right and justification to destroy the guns.

[TheeBadOne]

Does you friend have one of the magic things that bars firearm owership, IE: diagnosed mental illness (even if being treated), chemical/alcohol addition that has been commented on by court, felony conviction, Restraining Order?

[Strings]

There's nothing barring him from owning/possessing a weapon. Zip, nada...

[Standing Wolf]

I'd say your friend needs to have a lawyer file a law suit against the local P.D. for multiple millions of dollars. Win, lose, or draw, a suit for a sufficiently large amount of money will bump the entire matter out of the hands of the police and in theory, at least, into the hands of lawyers bright enough to read state statutes.

[Strings]

just bumping this thread back up...

My friend has filed suit, which is costing him $1k up fromnt (and more later)... :fire: :cuss:

[labgrade]

Me too, HR, & a quick link back to here/sickening abuse (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=59593) ... thought you'd posted here, HR.

Just wanted to make the link.

Abuses made by electeds, appointeds, or servants in any form need to be dealt with severely.

What ever happened to due process, & matter of fact, riding these-type folks outa town on a rail - after the obligatory chicken-fest?

[yorick]

The St Paul Chief of Police is a flaming ???????.

I know- I used to live there and had some experience with that department and thier ridiculous prediliction for destroying any guns they can get thier hands on.

I still get tagged by NICS because of an erroneous report filed by that idiotic department. Takes me 6 months to buy a firearm now because every one has to go through the appeals process.

????ing morons.

Sue the ???? out of them.

[labgrade]

yorick,

"I still get tagged by NICS because of an erroneous report filed by that idiotic department. Takes me 6 months to buy a firearm now because every one has to go through the appeals process."

Get every documentation you have, call the appropriate offices, & file a "change of records," (whatever for your state, etc.) & have the records of any prior "thought crimes" purged/updated.

(PM if you're running into problems. I'm no expert, but have been through the process & can at least sympathize, if not lend a hand.)

I too have had a couple run-ins with Our Finest= essential non-entities & you must take it upon yourself to ensure the records are clear.

Seems they can get it "right enough" to deny, but never quite get it right to make it right again. How rare. :rolleyes"

[Steve in PA]

BS. I'm a LEO and the weapons can not be destroyed, auctioned, disposed of, etc.......without and order from the court.

[yorick]

Steve, mebbe so, (I don't know one way or t'other) but if Chief Wiggum goes to a judge and says "This here gun needs to be destroyed because billy bob gets drunk and might do something dangerous" guess what? the judge signs the court order.

Used to be cops were people first and cops second, now every cop I know thinks the world is divided into two kinds of people, cops and ????ing civilians...

[standingbear]

an NCO katana...as in the sword type?

[Hkmp5sd]

the weapons can not be destroyed, auctioned, disposed of, etc.......without and order from the court.
'Tis easier to get forgiveness than permission.

There are several documented cases of rabidly anti-gun departments destroying the guns of innocent people instead of returning them. There are a few instances where the department has ignored a court order to return firearms. If the Chief/Sheriff gets into trouble with the courts, the Brady Bunch and VPC show up en masse to raise hell and the news media is more than happy to start flooding the airwaves/newsprint with stories supporting the department.

[chaim]

a)Type 8 Arasaka and b)NCO's katana, both still possessing their crests... Is the Katana a real, honest to goodness, WWII era Japanese sword? If so he better get a lawyer ASAP to prevent this abuse.

I am no expert on swords or on antiques, so take this with a huge grain of salt, but...On the history channel a few months ago they were talking about WWII era Japanese swords (I think it might have been on Mail Call) and the sword expert was saying how certain types of swords, if authentic, can be worth in the millions of dollars. At any rate, if it is authentic, that may be an item worth thousands, or tens of thousands, that he is about to lose.

[Waitone]

Watch out for weapons getting "lost" in the system.

[Strings]

it IS a real, honest to goodness WWII sword, still possessing it's crest. As is th Type 38 rifle...

Now for the REAL fun... I just got an email from him, letting his friends know that he's been activated for duty (he's AF reserve), with an expected deployment of a year or more, so his wife gets to deal with this all on her own...:cuss:

[curious2006]

Did he get his guns back?

[Strings]

Yes, he got 'em back (and his wife got hers back too)...

[Spreadfire Arms]

glad to hear he got his guns back.

"he can file a theft report with the FBI"

I thought FFLs notified the ATF, not the FBI, if a firearm was found to be missing?

it doesnt say anywhere that this guy was an FFL, from what i read. also, since he voluntarily surrendered his weapons to the police, filing a "theft" report with another agency isn't going to go anywhere. they didn't "steal" the firearms, although i disagree that it is right for some Chief to say he is going to destroy them without any sort of due process. sounds like the Chief needs to read up on some stuff before he gets the city sued.

you would have to contact an attorney, and yes, what your friend did was right by contacting an attorney. contacting some other law enforcement agency wouldn't do anything, because another LE agency wouldn't have the authority to tell another LE agency to not destroy some guns.