[Radaray]

I saw something in here a while back about Lil'Gun powder burning so hot it was damaging barrels. I can't find it now, but want to say that I contacted Chris at Hodgdon and he stated that there is nothing to that. He assurred me that this powder is perfectly safe to use and will certainly not damage gun barrels as long as proper loading procedures are followed.

[fourdollarbill]

Well I have shot more than 2 lbs of it through an 1894C and no damage yet. I have never heard any claim like it. So far so good.

[kanook]

I saw something in here a while back about Lil'Gun powder burning so hot it was damaging barrels. I remember reading that too. No worries for me though, I just found out about H110 and 2400. Due to the shortage I had to pick up some instead of my normal Unique. Thank God for the shortage.

[Walkalong]

I have read that, and it does seem to burn hot, but my Hornet sure likes it.

[wild willy]

The post I think you are looking for is at Graybeard Outdoors under freedom arms

[Grumulkin]

Yea, the post is at Graybeard Outdoors. The information came from one of the gurus at Freedom Arms who had actually don't testing with this powder in their handgun barrel which was essentially ruined within 200 or 300 rounds.

Ya'll go ahead and use Lil'Gun. It's never going to be used in my guns.

[P51D]

So, this is an interesting rumor. Is there any truth to it? I've been working on some 22 Hornet loads, and of course, that is popular powder for the Hornet. Has anyone out there shot a lot with Lil'Gun? Any problems with barrel life? It seems popular with some pistol and .410 shotgun as well. In the Hornet, published pressures are remarkably low, with good velocity. What gives?

P51D

[loadedround]

Right from the horse's mouth. I called Hodgdon's last week about this rumor and was told there is absolutely no truth to this rumor. Lil'Gun burns no hoter than any other similar powder. So just rumor ...not fact!

[buck460XVR]

I used Lil' Gun for a coupla years in my .357s and the .460. It shot very well outta them, altho it never seemed to be able to top H110/W296 in the .44s. I noticed from the start, that my gun would get hot faster using loads with Lil Gun as compared to those loads using other powders. When the info about gun damage due to the extreme heat created by Lil' Gun started trickling into several forums, I took notice and have quit using it till I hear more concrete evidence for or against. Ain't no sense taking chances with all the other good powders out there.

[SPW1]

I have never had a problem with it. I can't imagine any powder in the reloading manuals that would burn out a pistol barrel in a few hundred rounds.

[jbkebert]

I use lil-gun in my two super redhawks and my 29-2 in .44 mag. Burns clean and produces accurate groups. No complaints and I'll keep on using it.

[454PB]

I've used a lot of Lil'Gun in my various .454 Casulls and .44 magnums. No unusual erosion or barrel heating noted. Anytime you're burning 25 grains of powder and pushing 300+ grains of lead you will get some barrel heating, but H-110 and 2400 do the same thing.

This reminds me of all the dire warnings about the use of Bluedot. Anyone that is worried about using Lil'Gun or Bluedot is invited to send it to me for proper, safe disposal.

[Runningman]

Oh Gezzz! There must be tons of scrap 17 HMR barrels out there by now considering Lil Gun is the factory loaded powder in the 17HMR. Not to mention all the reloaders that use Lil Gun in the 22 Hornet.

[buck460XVR]

This reminds me of all the dire warnings about the use of Bluedot. Anyone that is worried about using Lil'Gun or Bluedot is invited to send it to me for proper, safe disposal.


you are correct........the rumors about Lil' Gun are very similar to the first rumors about the use of Blue Dot in .357 with light bullets and .41 mag. People scoffed then also, and continued to use it. Funny, how some still do even after Alliant came out with it's warning about it's use in these platforms. Me, I like my guns too much to risk them because of stubbornness. Again, I know my guns quite well and whenever I shot Lil' Gun I also shot other loads in comparison. The evidence that my guns got much hotter, much quicker with Lil' Gun was clearly evident. Someone who shoots one or two cylinders at a time would never notice, but I shoot several hundred rounds thru some of my guns everytime I go to the range. Must be some way that Lil' Gun gets the velocity without the pressure and those that know gun powder chemistry say it's because it burns hotter. I never got performance from Lil' Gun that could not be achieved with other powders, so I'm not gonna risk it till there is more information available. If you want to continue to use Lil' Gun and continue to ignore the manufacturers warnings about Blue Dot in certain platforms go ahead, and I wish you continued success. But IMHO, it is not taking the high road to ridicule those of us who don't.


Oh Gezzz! There must be tons of scrap 17 HMR barrels out there by now considering Lil Gun is the factory loaded powder in the 17HMR....no but Remington has just issued a recall on and advised against using factory loaded 17HMR ammo in auto-loading rifles.

[Radaray]

It took me a while to find it, but here is the correspondence I had with Chris at Hodgdon.


From: Chris Hodgdon <chodgdon@HODGDON.com>
To: Ray
Sent: Thu, October 15, 2009 9:50:03 AM
Subject: RE: LiL' Gun powder


Hello Mr.



Thank you for your interest in Lil’Gun. You are correct that we did have a recall on Lil’Gun in 2003 with the lot #103080221 and almost every pound was accounted for. The lot of Lil’Gun in your possession #111100444 is perfectly safe. I don’t know where the report on “warping barrels” came from but it’s totally false, believe me we would know about this if it were true.



Feel free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.



Appreciate your nice comment on our powders and for your business.



Regards

Chris



From: Ray
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:30 PM
To: Chris Hodgdon
Subject: LiL' Gun powder



Dear Chris,



I have a pound of LiL'Gun powder, lot # 111100444 and have questions as to if it is safe to use or not. I have seen a report that some of this powder burns so hot it has been warping barrels. On one link, I saw that there was a recall for a lot# 103080221, but could not find out what it was recalled for.



This is the first purchase of LiL'Gun I have made, and was going to start working up loads for .357 and .44 Magnums, but wanted to make sure it was good to go before I continued..



I have used several other powders from Hodgdon, and have been well satisfied with all of them. Any light you can shed on this, would greatly be appreciated.



Thank you,



Ray

[Radaray]

I like to go right to the source when I hear/read what I construe to be a rumor.

[Walkalong]

Some powders burn hotter than others, and high nitro content powders seem to be among the more guilty. Some powders are treated so they don't burn as hot. Bottom line is not all powders behave the same. Does Lil' Gun burn hot enough compared to other powders to be a problem? Hodgdon doesn't think so, or won't say so. Lil' Gun did seem to heat up my Redhawk faster than AA#9 or N110, so I discontinued using it in .44 Mag since AA #9 and N100 do just as well or better accuracy wise. My Hornet really likes it, but I am going to pursue other options, even though I may never shoot enough .22 Hornet at a time to be a concern.

Paranoid? Who knows. Time will tell. :)

[NCsmitty]

Here's a link to the forum discussing the issue with Lil' Gun. Bob Baker is the owner of Freedom Arms who points the finger at Lil' Gun causing the problems in his magnum pistols.
I think that using Lil' Gun in rifles with some common sense about heat buildup should not be an issue.
It reminds me a little of the problems that the 357 Maximum had in revolvers with cutting the top strap using the high pressure loads of erosive ball powder with lighter weight bullets(125gr).

www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,180437.0.html


NCsmitty

[Grumulkin]

Yes, as NCsmitty indicated, the source of this "rumor" isn't some schmuck but the principal of Freedom Arms who actually tested Lil'Gun in one of his guns as opposed to armchair experts who opine that because Hodgdon said it wouldn't "warp barrels," had never damaged their guns (all that deduced without a bore scope), etc., that Lil'Gun wouldn't damage barrels.

By the way, I don't think the issue is warping barrels but rapid erosion of the forcing cone and proximal end of the barrel.

Do I care if you use Lil'Gun? Certainly not but I'm not using it.

[Rancho Relaxo]

I've used four pounds of the stuff in my .410 and my 22-Hornet. With the size charges these two use, a pound goes forever. I have full faith that it's a perfectly safe powder, I'd have had something happen by now if it wasn't...

[Roccobro]

Since when would any of Freedom Arms products be considered "little guns".... like those that the powder was designed for???

Seems like someone was using a product outside of it's intended uses and found out why it isn't called 'Hogdons bi'guns" powder. :D

Justin

[Walkalong]

I have full faith that it's a perfectly safe powderSo do I, assuming one uses the proper data. The question is does it burn out throats prematurely. That will take a good bit of shooting to prove or disprove, with other data to compare it to.

[wild willy]

I think you find the Lil-gun name refers to the 410 bore shotgun not little handguns

[ohioshooter]

I use Lil Gun in my 500 S&W with no problems.

[ljnowell]

Since when would any of Freedom Arms products be considered "little guns".... like those that the powder was designed for???

Seems like someone was using a product outside of it's intended uses and found out why it isn't called 'Hogdons bi'guns" powder.

Seems odd they would provide load data for a chambering that the powder isnt compatible with?

[Roccobro]

Your quote too out my smiley face. :(
[/humor]

Justin

[ljnowell]

Your quote too out my smiley face.
[/humor]

Justin

sorry man, i missed that one. My sarcasm meter must be broke.

[Radaray]

I read the link and the comments from Bob Baker. I think it would behove Mr. Baker to consult with Mr. Hodgdon.