[sigbear]

If you could pick only 1 battle rifle, which would it be and why?

[iyaoyas98]

I'd pick the one I have stashed under the truck seat with 1000 rds of ammo. I would pick that one because it is stashed under my truck seat and I have 1000 rds of ammo. :)

[Blowingsky]

There's a lot I don't know about this SHTF situation that would help in picking the right tool. Like, am I a Wolverine or Omega Man ? Am I a guerrilla paramilitary or the last free man standing? Am I holding a position or taking one? Can I do my job from a distance or is this close quarter combat? And so forth. But for all around practicality, I'd go with the A3-'03 because 1) I have one now and am familir with it, 2) I have ammo 3) If this is truly a SHTF scenario, then Murphy and his laws are loosed upon the world and the A3 is pretty tight. No gas system to go awry and more importantly, it's been battle tested and its up there with the 1911...and it wasn't built yesterday.

[rbernie]

What's a battle rifle?

[woodybrighton2]

full power cartridge usually a semi-auto.
Basically a FAL:D

[franconialocal]

*ahem*....I think he was being sarcastic. *lol*

Me?....if I really had to choose then a good ol' AK-47

[Blowingsky]

What's a battle rifle?
I'd say one that has been designed for and built for and used in a war. A mass-produced government issued long gun for combatants. Garand or M-14 would be it. M1-A would not. Mosin Nagant M44 would be. Mini-14 would not.

[1911Tuner]

03-A3 Springfield. Range...Power...Accuracy. Encourages aimed fire and discourages getting into battles.

[franconialocal]

I think he was being sarcastic.....

[MachIVshooter]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/AR-10A2carbine.jpg

[Tim the student]

I think I would read the many other threads on this topic, and base my decisions off of those thousands of responses. :neener:

[snakeman]

my ak in .223 and a 700 vtr 308 both strapped to back crossways.

[CornCod]

Putting my semi-auto versions of Assault Rifles aside (like my SKS, AR's and AK's,) I guess the only two true battle rifles I have owned were an FN-49 in 8mm and a Hakim in the same caliber. I guess I would choose the FN-49, as I found it more reliable than the Hakim. Now if you are counting bolt-actions, I guess my 8mm Yugo Mauser would be my favorite because I have been shooting it a lot more than my other military bolt-actions and I would be more comfortable using it. My Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine would probably be the best of all, but I haven't been able to shoot it much due to the fact that most of the surplus has dried up.

I am sure that there are better Semi-auto battle rifles and bolt-actions shooting full-size cartridges out there than the FN-49 and the Yugo Mauser (for example the M-14 and the FN-FAL) but its better to fight with a weapon that you know and have extensive experience with. That theory is the extension of the old "beware the 'one gun man' concept."

[John Parker]

my ak in .223 and a 700 vtr 308 both strapped to back crossways.

They do a lot of good back there.

[Arkansas Paul]

I'd have to go with the tried and true AK-47. Not the most accurate or most powerful firearm, but reliablility is second to none. You just can't tear them up.

[TexasRifleman]

full power cartridge usually a semi-auto.
Basically a FAL

Have to agree with woody here, on all his points.

FAL = Battle Rifle

M14 = Battle Rifle

That's about it on my list.....

[Pony Express]

my AR, cause its the only "battle rifle" i have.

[H2O MAN]

What happened to your poll?

[P.B.Walsh]

M1A for a semi-auto

Remington 700 for a bolt-action

[alistaire]

Half-track with 50BMG Quad Mount (M16 Multiple gun motor carriage from WWII/Korea)

[a-sheepdog]

An M1A with plenty of mags and ammo.

[swiftak]

Ditto on the M1A

[dvcrsn]

:D:DTHat would depend on the circumstances--if I were in a repeat of the Rodney King riots--my SKS, if the Chinese hit Redondo Beach--my Garand, my M1917 Enfield--with or a combo of the SKS and my mini14 (for easy access to ammo from the National Guard/ military):evil:

[gunsandreligion]

M98 carbine any day, if you know how you can really move those bolts:D:neener::D:neener::evil:

[rbernie]

Any rifle that I have in my hand is a battle rifle, in that it can be used in a battle. So I asked - what's a battle rifle?

full power cartridge usually a semi-auto.Which rules out most every rifle ever used in battle.

What a goofy notion.

[Geno]

Where's :banghead: the :fire: poll?! :cuss:

[1911Tuner]

Any rifle that I have in my hand is a battle rifle, in that it can be used in a battle. So I asked - what's a battle rifle?

Technically speaking...aka "Main Battle Rifle" or MBR...Any rifle that is or has been issued to a military unit that is chambered for a full-power/length cartridge that has been officially adopted as that country's service cartridge. .30-06 7.92X57 Mauser .7.62 Nato 7.5 Swiss, and of course, the venerable .45-70 Govt, etc. etc.

As opposed to the battle carbine calibers such as 5.56 7.62X39 7.92X33...aka "Assault Rifles" or "Sturmgewer" if your prefer.

As to your point:

Any rifle that I have in my hand is a battle rifle

If the dog will eat it, it's dog food. If you do battle with it...it's a battle rifle.

[Big_E]

I recently acquired an infatuation with the SMLE (No.4 mk2 preferably or any of the others.) If something disastrous happened I would pick it up in a heartbeat.

However, FAL/PTR/M1A would be a good choice along with a converted Saiga or AR-15 variant. So many to choose from, I would pick whatever is closest by and I have the most ammo/spare parts for and feel most comfortable with.

[rbernie]

Technically speaking...aka "Main Battle Rifle" or MBR...Any rifle that is or has been issued to a military unit that is chambered for a full-power/length cartridge that has been officially adopted as that country's service cartridge. .30-06 7.92X57 Mauser .7.62 Nato 7.5 Swiss, and of course, the venerable .45-70 Govt, etc. etc.

As opposed to the battle carbine calibers such as 5.56 7.62X39 7.92X33...aka "Assault Rifles" or "Sturmgewer" if your prefer.

Technically speaking - this definition exists only on the Internet. It was likely invented so that those who remain infatuated with Big Rifles (which is often those who don't carry their rifle further than from the trunk of their car to the shooting bench) can avoid feeling poorly in the face of the military trend over the last 40-50 years towards 'intermediate chamberings' and rifles sized to match 'em.

No standing military of any country has ever adopted this terminology.

[BsChoy]

If I could get one, I have always wanted an HK91 (G3) but, seeing as the parts would be really hard to get to repair it probably an AR10 with an intermediate power scope.

[Dr.Rob]

BAR, too bad I don't have a spare $25k laying around to get one.

[taliv]

dunno, but i'm looking forward to 40 more years of debate on the topic after the scar heavy becomes widely available

[Smith357]

M25 or an M40 I want something with optics for my worn out old eyes, I have a hard time seeing open sights anymore.

[DeepSouth]

Depends on the battle, but most likely an AK.......Because they never jam.

[1911Tuner]

Technically speaking - this definition exists only on the Internet.

Nope. I first heard the term used in the early 80s...long before the internet was soaked with gun forums and mall ninjas. Cooper also referred to them as MBRs...mainly as a way of diferentiating between full-powered military rifles and assault rifles...or "Battle Carbines" as he called them.

[Joe Demko]

I've become fond of the Romanian PSL of late.

[armoredman]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/basicload2.jpg

Current SA vZ-58, will be modified from pictured soon soon, new stock and EOTech 512. Why? Why not, accurate, reliable and durable.

But if I HAVE to stick with the big bore battle rifle definition, I will chose the one I have that HAS been there/done that.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Enfield1.jpg

1943 No4Mk1*, plus pigsticker. :)

[ThePants]

I'll put myself down on the AK list, preferably 7.62x39. Mainly because if there was a SHTF situation I'd like something that wasn't too picky about a cleaning schedule.

[Joe Demko]

The MBR term remains a hobbyist's word no matter which gun writer coined it.

[1911Tuner]

Joe...If memory serves me...it was Chuck Taylor. It's been a while, but it seems that's where I first heard it. At any rate, it predated the internet by a good bit.

[Joe Demko]

You're completely right about it pre-dating the Internet. I believe you're also right about Taylor coming up with the term.

[Hammerhead6814]

Probably a FAL or a G3.


while(7.62x51 > 5.56x45 && 7.62x51 > 7.62x39)
{
cout << "You win" << endl;
}

[HGUNHNTR]

PTR 91, or the Swiss K31

[jordan1948]

M14 or Dragunov. The only "battle" rifles I own are the SKS and M44, but if I had to pick one rifle from the ones I own to go into battle I'd take my Mini-14, not that accurate but it goes bang every time and isn't too picky about ammo or regular bathing.

[BushyGuy]

I picked my Bushmaster cuz i can make every shot count :D

[dom1104]

I do agree I have read of the MBR referred to in books predating the internet.

I also agree that the MBR is a antiquated concept, mostly for gun nuts who like big booms and think the AK and AR wont get the job done.

Do I personally as a civilian have any use for an MBR? nope.

So I choose... none.

If its breaking into my house and 5.56 or 12 gauge cant kill it,

I deserve to be eaten.

It was always my impression that militaries all over the world abandoned full power semi-auto weapons when they realized a normal soldier cant make 800 yard shots. which was "old school" thinking, diminishing the need for a full power round. I think this is the thinking behind the original assault rifle, that the rest of the world pretty much copied.

So I guess I am not alone for having absolutly no use for a "MBR". Then again, I dont have to compensate for anything, so perhaps I am doubly blessed :)

[rocinante]

I would vote for my 8mm FN-49. It is similar to the garand which I believe defines battle rifle.

[Avenger29]

Currently I run an AR-15 and am thrilled with it, but would absolutely love a Knight's SR-25...

[nrthwoods]

I recall reading something that stated a battle rifle was defined by the cartridge, able to penetrate and kill out to 500m (the whole difference between cover and concealment thing)

It seems like you guys know a bit more about it than me, just throwin it out there

ETA: I'd take the ptr which I have the most mags, ammo and LBV for.

[Deaj]

Civilian weapon: My S&W M&P15T. I know it, I trust it, and I can place rounds on target with it. Just need to add a pile of PMAGs and 5-10 thousand rounds of 5.56x45 ammo.

Military weapon: Select fire version of the Colt 6940, pile of PMAGs, ammo, and all of the tactical accesories and optics for my M&P15T.

[Jefferson Herb]

Ruger 10-22 w supressor,shop for what I truly need and take it off the body.

[DRYHUMOR]

I would have to go with what I've got handy and have adequate ammo to support.

M1a, PTR 91, M700 LTR .223

[BobOfTheFuture]

If around here, I'd take what ever i had some ammo for that could penetrate a car (engine bay not included) and normal walls- Sheetrock, 2X4s and brick.

That said, 762X39 and .223 arent going to cut it reliably.
Who cares about modern soliders not being able to shoot to 800 yards? I know I'd want to be able to properly swiss cheese any standard cover around.

Gimme a M1A/FAL

[OurSafeHome.net]

Technically speaking - this definition exists only on the Internet.

The term "battle rifle" was in use long before Al Gore invented the Internet.

[1911Tuner]

I also agree that the MBR is a antiquated concept, mostly for gun nuts who like big booms and think the AK and AR wont get the job done.

Much that you don't understand, dom. Of course the AR calibers will get the job done. There are too many bodies in the ground to deny that...but there are other targets besides human in a battlefield situation. The other side's war materiel can be damaged or destroyed with the extra punch afforded by the full power cartridge...not to mention the extra range with residual killing power. Like the speed afforded by a Corvette. Not often needed...but nice to have in case it is.

Do I personally as a civilian have any use for an MBR? nope.

Allow me to point to the Winchester 70/Remington 700/Ruger 77 "sporting" rifles chambered for military cartridges in civilian guise. (.30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester) that have been used to take all manner of large game...often at distances that would fairly boggle the mind.

It was always my impression that militaries all over the world abandoned full power semi-auto weapons when they realized a normal soldier cant make 800 yard shots.

The change came about largely due to the fact that personal combat didn't normally take place at distances greater than 300 yards...and most often at 100 or less. Additionally, it was found that a good many infantrymen wouldn't take deliberate aim at an enemy soldier until that enemy was almost on top of him...leaving little time to aim. In that scenario, a high rate of fire was/is more important than precise shooting.

In WW1, the infantry still used mass area fire at extremely long distances...aka "Plunging Fire" in the attempt to break up enemy concentrations or hopefully be able to reach him in the far trenches. The original .30-06 cartridge...designated Caliber .30 Ball M1...was loaded with a heavier 175 grain bullet that was conducive to effectiveness at extreme range. The switch to M2 Ball with its 152-grain bullet was easier on Garand op rods and produced less recoil...and was better suited to the mobile battlefield of WW2. Still a reliable killer out to 500 yards, but even that was no longer necessary due to more accurate artillery, air support, and armor...long-range area fire by riflemen became an obsolete tactic.

In the hands of a civilian, operating alone...a rifle chambered for the MBR class cartridge may be of more use than one might suspect. Distance is your friend. More than that...the full-powered cartridge can stop a man...or a truck dead in its tracks with a well-placed shot at pretty extreme ranges. For those reasons alone, I opted for the 03-A3 Springfield. "It encourages aimed fire...thus conserving ammunition...and it discourages becoming involved in a firefight...thus conserving life and limb."

As a final point...The term "Gun Nuts" is used all too frequently by those who would take all our firearms away and leave us in the role of the king's subjects. This notion of "need" as a requirement or a justification for ownership should be stricken from all discussions. Need has nothing to do with it.
If I want it...my reasons are mine alone, and that is justification enough for my having it.

Remember the fallout generated by Jim Zumbo's statement concerning "Assault Rifles. That works in both directions. I have no personal need for an AR15 or an AK47...but if somebody else wants one...I'm behind that 100% and would never make disparaging or derogatory remarks as to that choice.

[Joe Demko]

When I described it as a hobbyist's term, that was not meant disparagingly; only that military organizations don't use the term. Different groups have their own jargons.

[John Parker]

If around here, I'd take what ever i had some ammo for that could penetrate a car (engine bay not included) and normal walls- Sheetrock, 2X4s and brick.
That said, 762X39 and .223 arent going to cut it reliably.

.223 and 7.62x39 will go through cars, 2x4s, and sheetrock/drywall very reliably. I've shot through them all. As for brick, I'm really not certain. I'd place my money on the 7.62x39 for that, though.

[Snakum]

7.62x39 will, indeed, go thru a vehicle. I know from personal experience. And if any of the rounds had been aimed about 8 inches farther right they would have gone thru me, too. :p

I still believe the best SHTF weapon would be an AK in 5.56. The AK action provides unsurpassed reliability and 5.56 will be easier to find in a worst case scenario. I prefer a bigger round, personally, however. So I always ensure I have at least 1000 rounds in the closet.

[sprice]

FN fal, M1 Garand, or Galil.

[db_tanker]

FAL

And the nice thing is I have a custom mauser chambered in 308 to go right along with it.

Same reason why I would like to add a Highpoint Carbine or similar to go with my 92FS.

[bkjeffrey]

A wind energy powered Apache helicopter!

[1911Tuner]

When I described it as a hobbyist's term, that was not meant disparagingly;

I know. It proably is mainly a hobbyist's term, though there are some serious trainers, etal who use it in order to differentiate between full power rifles and reduced power assault rifles. Chuck Taylor is one such, but there are others. Probably because it's quicker and easier than using a complete description every time it comes up. Kinda like calling any 1911 pistol lacking a Series 80 firing pin safety as a "Series 70." More of a convenient catch phrase than a technically correct term.

I was referring to the "Gun Nut/Big Boomer/Need" terminology. Going further, I don't have a personal need for a .600 Nitro Express double rifle, either...but if I want one...and go buy one...why should it mark me as somehow odd or unstable? Indeed! Who "needs" a Barret .50 caliber rifle?

"Need" doesn't really need to be questioned. I want it. That's all the need I need.

[Joe Demko]

We're on exactly the same page here.

[888]

I'd have to go with "Puff the magic dragon" mini guns do lots of damage!

[Broken11b]

well, if I'm not allowed to have a GE M134, then I guess i'd take either an M-14 or a FAL, or M1, or G3/CETME, or PSL, or no losing either way, theyre all reliable and get the job done

[woodybrighton2]

in the UK in shtf it would be an L85a2 or an GPMG (fn mag m240)
how
brother has keys to the armoury:D

[happygeek]

As to the OP, I own two "battle rifles": my M1 Garand and my M1A. From everything I've read, the only real difference between a Springfield M1A and a M14 is the selector switch. That and my M1A is a National Match, so it's more accurate :D

I'd take my M1A over the Garand, but if I was going into a war zone for real I'd take neither; I'd take the Sig 556 I just picked up yesterday. It doesn't have a wood stock so no wandering zeros due to humidity and what not. It'd be more weather resistant and rugged. That and I've been on foot for a few miles with a rifle, ammo, first aid kit, water, food, a radio, antenna, small pack, etc. before. Having a lighter rifle with lighter ammo is a big plus.

From my reading of history, the big reason the military went with the 5.56 NATO and the AR was because of lighter ammo (allowing the average foot soldier to lug around a good deal more rounds for the same weight), lessoned recoil (I've heard the M14 is all but uncontrollable on auto), and that the rifle itself weighs a few pounds less. Even the AR can be tricky on auto though. It tends to climb up and to the right (due to the rifling twist, I believe). You can't fire more than 3 or 4 rounds at a man size target at 25m before you're off target, and that was from a foxhole with a sandbag rest.

[Oro]

Just to document the exchange above about the definition of "battle rifle" - coincidently I was reading an old Chuck Taylor article on Garands a few days ago. It is from 1982.

It is interesting as he does go into some of what differentiates "assault rifles" from "battle rifles" - generally volume-of-fire squad tactics, etc. I have no bone about this discussion, but thought some folks might find the article interesting. The article overall is somewhat of a debate along the lines of 1903 vs. Garand vs. M16 - very much in line with this thread. His opinions are of course, his - I just thought some references might be interesting for this thread.

The C. Taylor article starts 1/2 way down the web page. The first 1/2 is extracts from a US Army publication - though it is also highly interesting - it is an official US Army take on what is relevant in the development of the "Military Rifle" - circa 1966!

http://www.pattonhq.com/garand.html

[jr4521]

I would take the PTR 91 and my AR 15,and of course the 1911 on the hip. I also need someone to carry ammo!

[RevolvingCylinder]

It would be a M4 or M16A4 because that is issued to me when I go to battle.

If I have a choice? It would still be the M4 or M16A4(depending on mission) or a derivative of said rifles.

[Claude Clay]

1911Tuner--thank you for them great & many words:

i read from page 1 and kept nodding and muttering 'yup.....yup'

the term MBR-- i remember my dad [pacific theater]& his army buddy's use that term, though they never abbreviated it. i never had reason to wonder about it. anyways--as to what i want to have:

i would much rather a m96 or k31 and keep the BG's at 500+ yards with accurate and 'heavy' precision fire than engage them at under 200 yards with spray & pray or selective aimed slow fire from a m-16 [ar].

defense in a environment of buildings & close spaced homes-- m-16 [ar-15]

in an open environment-- garand, k-31 & m-96 [in order of power though i shoot best the 6.5 x 55 at 3-500 yards]

[H2O MAN]

............

[OhioChief]

My Colt AR15. Good enough for the American Military man, good enough for me.. Oh, well I was an American Military man, so I'm biased. But hell, it's tried and true. If someone's 800 yards away, I don't need to shoot at them anyway. If they're between 50 and 300, it's a whole lot of hurt fast. I'll take it. Hey, we get a side arm too don't we? I'll take my Sig 226 .40 (because it works and it's what I have).

[Josber]

Let me keep my M-1 Garand and I would be a happy camper. George Patton-"The M-1 is the gratest battle implement ever invented"

[chauncey]

FAL, G3, or M14 clone. i can't pick between them!

all 3?

[OurSafeHome.net]

From the article (http://www.pattonhq.com/garand.html) cited earlier:

Several years prior to the war of 1861-65, the elongated-bullet rifle was adopted

:-)

[amprecon]

For some strange reason, I've been heavily desiring one of these XCR's with an ACOG and in 6.8spc as my "everything" rifle.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=107987&stc=1&d=1256520736

[foghornl]

The US Rifle Cal .30 M1

Popularly Known As "The Garand"

[H2O MAN]

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Suppressed-MK14-Mod1.jpg

[BrianB]

Bushmaster ACR (formerly Magpul Masada) with both 5.56 and 7.62x39 barrels.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=magpul%20masada&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#