[shotgunsrfun]

Hi, I was looking at a remington 870 and express, I heard remington sells alot of these shotguns and its one of there most popular shotguns and good quailty for the price:confused: I have heard on the internet some problems with express models jamming? I want to know before I buy anything, Which if the difference in 870 and 870 express? I dont want to be buying a gun with problems.

[Fred Fuller]

Oh, they've only sold about 10,000,000 870s so far. I wouldn't call that a lot, just yet :D. Maybe when they get to 11 million...

It seems from 'net reports there have been some QC issues with newer 870 Express guns. I don't know myself, I've never bought a new one in going on 40 years of shooting 870s. I haven't had any problems out of the dozen or so Express guns I've owned, and the ones we have now work just fine. The only barrel I've ever had shells hang up in when fired hot was an 870 Police barrel.

It seems a lot of the fired-shell-sticking-in-chamber thing comes from people not cleaning the packing grease out of the gun when they get it, but just taking it right out and shooting it. The owners manual says clearly to clean it first, but I've bought used Express guns that still had packing grease in them- go figure. The problem seems worse with Winchester bulk pack shells, though what gave me fits the one time I had problems was Fiocchis.

An occasional gun likely does need a chamber polish, but there aren't many of those. I don't know what the odds of getting one that had that problem are, but I'd say pretty slim.

YMMV of course,

lpl

[okespe04]

buy one

[shotgunsrfun]

Thanks for the replys

[throdgrain]

Let me just amplify that remark.


Buy one now!

[Wishoot]

It's just about the most versatile gun you'll ever own. Like a Ruger 10/22, there are more aftermarket parts and add-on's than you can shake a stick at.

[Tim the student]

I have one, and frankly I think everyone should have one.

One thing you need to watch out for is rust, which can be mitigated by wiping it down after you have it out, and other normal precautions like dessicants etc.

[Moose23]

Buy one. Solid, no frills gun that goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. You don't mind carrying it out in the rain or other bad conditions. There's a reason Remington has sold ten million of them.

[bsctov]

I have one and love it, Go for it dude. Just keep an eye out for rust, When you first get it, break it down and clean out the factory grease before you shoot it otherwise you will have FTE problems.

After you clean out the grease, take a clean tshirt and apply a good amount of remoil to it and shalack oil onto the outsides of the receiver, really rub it in good, do not be afraid to press and scrub, you wont hurt it.

Remove the barrel and do the same thing with the oil.


Do this as often as you want to prevent rust but atleast once a month or so and rust should be a non-issue.

Remember, Apply a good amount of oil but our goal here is to get it into all the pores to keep the metal from oxidizing (Rusting) and not to raise the stock price of the oil company. :D

[shotgunsrfun]

Thanks all for advice. Yes I know all about cleaning :) I hate rust, I spend 10-20 mins on EACH GUN to clean

[renegade1alpha]

My 870 used to be my hunting shotgun but is now my tactical shotgun. I have NEVER had a problem with it... EVER. It shoots everything I put through it. Not only are they reliable, there are several companies out there that make a ton of accessories for them.

Every now and then you can get a lemon no matter who makes the gun. But I would be hard pressed to find a shotgun better than the Remington 870.

[MAX100]

Chances are you will get a good one. Here are some post of some 870 owners having problems with shells sticking in the chamber.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=481867&highlight=870+jamming

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=435376&highlight=870+jamming

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=437993&highlight=870+jamming

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=408782&highlight=870+jamming

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=2239&highlight=870+jamming


GC

[jmr40]

Buy the 870. It is the best designed pump currently on the market. There have been minor problems with some of the newer versions, but nothing that cannot be corrected with some tweaking if you get a problem gun.

[herkyguy]

Buy it. I've had one jam and it was my fault for not fully racking the gun after a shot. literally 1000+ rounds in a year to date and i love the gun. simple to operate, simple to clean and reliable.

[Tim the student]

So have you bought one yet?

[batex]

It's very unlikely you will have problems with the worlds most popular shotgun. Buy it. Better yet, but a used one from a pawn shop. You might find an older express model like I did that is slightly better made than the newer models. I have three wingmasters and an older express and have never had a single issue with any of them. Remember that the folks you see here represent .0001% of 870 owners. There are also a wide range of folks...Some of those that complain about jamming or rusting are also asking questions like "how do I get the slide to release" and "how do I dissasemble an 870"...This is not a slam on these folks but some of those complaining are also relatively new to shotguns.

[oletymer]

Buy the Wingmaster. The only other choices for a good pump gun are Ithaca and Browning. The Express guns are too be polite not very good.

[KBintheSLC]

I have had an Express since 2006... can't really say anything bad about it. Cost me $275 brand new, holds 6 in the tube, and does what it is supposed to do.

[ArmedBear]

Ditto KBintheSLC, but I've had it a tad longer. Buy the 870 Express. It's worth the (low) price of admission.:)

I don't much care for Remington as a gunmaker, their QC, their marketing and managment philosophies, etc. I don't even look at Remington products when I'm looking for a gun at this point, and I have good reasons for that.

BUT... My 870 Express has been worth every penny of the $235 after rebate that I paid for it new. I've had thousands of rounds through it, and there are serious wear marks on the wood stock where my hands hold it. It's not a Wingmaster, but I wouldn't pay for a new Wingmaster. Before I spend the money on a fancy version of a cheap pump gun, I'll take a new Ithaca 37 or a semiauto. Besides, I don't trust Remington to put it together well enough to be worth the cash.

My Express has gotten stuck shells, with Winchester Universal bulk packs, like everyone else's. It's not the gun's fault if the shells are made out-of-spec, and they are.

I have a shell size gauge because I sometimes handload my shotshells. Those POS Winchesters aren't even sized when they make them. I don't blame the gun -- because it has NEVER had ANY trouble with properly-made shells, either handloads or factory, expensive or cheap.

The Express is worth buying, IMO, and I can be pretty picky about what is and isn't.:)

So is a used Wingmaster for a decent price. However, barrels have changed over the years. I'd really only get one with the LC barrel on it; I have no real use for a fixed-choke pump gun, and the non-LC RemChoke barrel feels no better than an Express barrel.

[Arkansas Paul]

True, there may be a lot of people on the net who have had problembs. The thing is, you don't hear from the satisfied customers nearly as often. So if there are 5,000 complaints, there are 9,995,000 satisfied customers. When you have produced and sold as many items as Remington has the 870, there are bound to be a few that need some work. Those are few and far between. Buy it.

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Try several for fit.

I have an 870 Wingmaster 12ga., modified choke, rentilated rib, smoothbore from 1976 , that uses 2 3/4 inch shells. I've never had a feed/jam problem with birdshot, 00buck or slug, even with the 7 shot extension tube and 20 year old spring.

I also have a new (3 weeks old) 870 express tactical,12 ga., 18 1/2 inch with fixed cylinder barrel and ghost ring sights that takes 2 3/4 inch or 3 inch magnum shells. No feeding problems with bird shot, 00 buck, or slugs.I did clean it before use though.

Remington 870 shotguns come in many variations for different purposes, it is easy to pick the right type.
The cared for 870 will last for a life time or two, and are usually a safe purchase used also.

Go get an 870 that suits you at the right price.

[Virginian]

Has anyone ever heard from an Express buyer that had a problem, and went back to Remington, and they did not take care of them?

[shotgunsrfun]

I was looking for it in 20g I cant find it in 18inch (HD) I really dont want it in 12g because its such a big kick. Does anyone know where I could buy a GOOD buttpad cover?
So I could get it in 12g I would like to use it for HD and shooting at the range often. Its just 12g is such a kick it will bother me and I would not want to shoot it all the time, if I can not get a nice pad for it.



I could always buy it in 24/26 inch and get a smaller barrel but it would cost some more $

[Tim the student]

What do you plan on shooting at the range? Shooting slugs all day would suck, but some light loads might not bother you. The fit will also affect felt recoil as well.

Have you shot a lot of 12's to have a good frame of reference?

[shotgunsrfun]

no I havnt, they are alot of kick.

Thanks for your help, I am looking at GB for some.

[Tim the student]

They can kick a lot, but they don't have to. There are a lot of variables that come into play, like how the gun fits you, how much it weighs, and what type of rounds you are firing.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another - get what you like. Not much worse than having a gun you don't really like, or like to shoot.

I'm just saying that 12's aren't necessarily horrible to shoot. I've shot really light weight 20's that I wouldn't want to shoot all day. (With everything else being equal, the lighter gun will have more felt recoil. For example, a 5 pound 12 guage that fits you a certain way will be have more kick to it than a 9 pound gun with the same fit with the same shells.)


Is there any way you have a range that might rent guns for you to try (they probably will not have any expresses, but they may have a wingmaster), or have a buddy or family member who has an 870 you could shoot? I about guarantee if you ask, and post your location that someone here would meet up with and let you shoot theirs. (I'm in Waterloo, IA for that matter, if you are interested.)

[al123]

I'm new to shotguns, but I found the 870 Express to be simple to clean, and simple to break down. Rust can be a problem, so something like CorrosionX or EEZOX will be helpful. Just clean off the sticky shipping grease, then re-lube and you're good to go. So far no FTEs with different target loads.

Lot's of after market choices out to customize your 870.

[Pony Express]

buy one-but beware: the trigger guard on the new express models is plastic. I bought a new trigger plate assembly for $85. No functional difference-but i cant stand plastic where it shouldnt be.

[djardine]

Though I am new to the forum, I have owned several 870's. I have bought and sold so many shotguns , in search for the "latest and greatest" guns from other manufacturers, but find myself always going back to Remington for their ease of cleaning, their point of aim ( fits me well), and their reliability. I have read several forums about 870's jamming, but it comes down to proper barrel polishing/cleaning methods. Send me a message if you want the info on how to do this. Remington 870's are the best selling pumps for a reason. It is my opinion that the 870 is the best pump shotgun out there.

[Snarlingiron]

the trigger guard on the new express models is plastic. I bought a new trigger plate assembly for $85. No functional difference-but i cant stand plastic where it shouldnt be.

Well, there are differences in opinion on everything, I guess. The plastic trigger guard on the Express is more durable than the cast aluminum guard on the other 870's, IMNTBHO. A hard whack on the plastic, and it springs back. A hard whack on the aluminum one, and it is bent, likely interfering with the trigger. Let's say the plastic should break. It still won't interfere with the trigger.

Just my thinking. I have no problem with the plastic guard, and I really have no problem with the aluminum one either. I guess what I am saying is I wouldn't shy away from one because of the plastic guard, nor would I replace it with aluminum.

I have 2 870 Express's, and wouldn't take for either one. Thousands of rounds and no issues.

[Leaky Waders]

The old ones seem to be very reliable...the new ones sometimes require the buyer to finish them out with polishing.

If you are set on an express, then just ask the dealer what they will do to fix it/swap it out if your gun jams solid every shot; or, plan to do the shade tree gunsmithing like most other threads state; or, paya gunsmith a few dollars to do it for you; or, use one of the most reliable shotguns with certain hulls because it's the hull's fault...not the shotguns.

Personally I'd look for a wingmaster, or better yet a browning...but that's just my opinion.

L.W.

PS Asking this board about an 870 is like writing straight to remington and asking them...it's very bias. Not a bad thing, but just so you know. shotgunworld.com can also give you opinions too.

[JTH]

What' so special about a Rem. 870 Wingmaster? Reason I ask, is I was given a used one as a present but this is a Police Issue Riot Shotgun with pobably the shortest barrel. The shell magizine is very close to the length of the barrel. No mods still has wooden stock w/recoil pad. This is now my main home protection weapon. Sorry not trying to hijack a post, I just thought I'd ask since this weapon was the topic. Thanks!

[AcceptableUserName]

My take on the Remington Express Vs. the Mossberg 500/590 persuader tactically configured shotguns, formulated after owning about 5 of each in the past 5 years:

Remington PROS:

Steel Receiver. PROBABLY stronger than the Mossberg structurally, not that the Mossberg is weak.

Better action. A lot smoother with less play right away out of the box.


Arguably better dimensions length wise. An 18.5" 7 or 8 shot shotgun is ideal in my book. With a Mossberg, this isn't something easily achieved.

Remington's great customer service.

PROBABLY more aftermarket products produced from the 870, probably due to the fact it has been more widely used in the long term.


Remington CONS:

Price. At nearly 375-475 for a new Express, I don't believe the value is there. I think a good portion of that extra you're paying for is reputation.

These Expresses CAN be finnicky out the box. They definitely need to be worked in and broken in. I've seen this personally on every Express I own. They seem to smoothe out after 350-500 shells, and some sanding and polishing. If you can dedicate yourself to this process prior to counting on this gun for your personal safety, you'll be ok.

Control layout. I'm not fond of the safety and slide release locations UNLESS you are using a stock that incorporates a pistol grip, in which case the Remington's controls may gain the edge. Probably my biggest knock on the 870, as I prefer full-stocks.

Disassembly. Everyones probably thinking "WHAT? The 870 is more simple than a Mossberg!" If we were comparing field guns without magazine extensions and barrel clamps, I'd agree with you. On average, disassembling and reassembling and extension-equipped 870 takes me longer than the disassembly of EITHER a 590 or a 500! Especially if you're using a high powered spring.


Mossberg PROS:

Price and value. Definitely "more gun for the money", as they say. You also don't feel as bad using, abusing and loving it back to tip top shape. It's a Mossberg, they like the punishment. And so does your wallet.

Weight. While the aluminum receiver gives up a little to the Remington's steel in the strength department, it also weighs less. This is usually a big plus, or at least a draw even deal...unless you're using a PGO. Then I'd probably prefer the extra weight for recoil absorption. But you wouldn't do that, would you? :D

Reliability right out of the box. I cannot say this for 590 special purposes/persuaders as I believe they need a mag tube spring replacement with a Wolff version right out of the box, but I've never had my 500's jam, chamber stick, double feed, anything. Not new, not old, not clean, not dirty. I just haven't seen it.

Disassembly. With a 590, there is no clamp or extension. Screw off the cap, open the action half way and pull off the barrel. There may be a SOMEWHAT larger parts pile with a Mossberg, but negligibly. I believe this cancels out the hassle of those pesky extensions and clamps with Wolff Extra-Power springs. I find even the 500 to be easier, albeit maybe not upon reassembly.

Equally great customer service. Mossberg's done me a solid on several occasions ; sending me free sling studs, replacement mag springs, manuals, etc. at their cost.

Mossberg CONS:


Stiff out of the box. Just not as pleasant of a feel action wise. Some people think they feel "cheap". I see it as they just need attention.

Lack of a readily available, 18.5", flush tube configuration. That in my opinion is the ideal dimensions for a self defense shotgun.

Rough parts inside the receiver. This will smoothe out in time, but they do come pretty burr-y.

The standard, non-heavy barrels are probably a bit inferior to the Remingtions standard barrels.


I am a Mossberg guy. You may be a Remington guy. But these are the differences I've seen after 4-5,000 shells over the past few years put down the barrels of both guns. Just my two cents.

[SnakeLogan]

Another con of the 870 the possibility of getting your finger pinched each time you load a shell.

[justin22885]

who really cares if the trigger guard is plastic? its not a structural piece, and thats now one less part that can corrode... i like it

[justin22885]

well, its obvious to me that acceptableusername is very biased.... the remington receiver IS stronger, its proven, the mossberg receiver will crack long before a remington meets its mid-life. the remington tube mag configuration you dont like?... the mossberg cant even use an extention, you need to buy a new barrel to use a longer mag... and to further rationalize you say the 500s receiver is lighter.. yes, but the overall weight of the gun is pretty much the same... another rationalization of yours, the slide lock release being in front of the receiver?... how often do you actually dump a mag.. and if emptying the magazine safely, why would i have or even want my finger on the trigger?...

this is why i went out and bought a new 870, it was after hearing all these 500 owners rationalize their decisions to make themselves feel better while 870 owners have given me nothing but confidence in their positive remarks on the shotgun

870 is the best hands down... and given winchesters features id probably take a 1200/1300 over a mossberg...

and this brings me to your last rationalization... value?... taxes including an 870 is only about $50 more, anyone who wouldnt pay the price of a few boxes of ammo for a better gun deserves an inferior product... and if youre using this for home defense, youre even moreso an idiot for not going with the better product just to save a few bucks

[Handgunner]

who really cares if the trigger guard is plastic? its not a structural piece, and thats now one less part that can corrode

Yeah, they should find a way to make the receivers and barrels out of it also. :banghead:

[Handgunner]

and if youre using this for home defense, youre even moreso an idiot for not going with the better product just to save a few bucks

So why would you buy a remington when this costs so much more?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_871/products_id/49049

It costs alot more, so it should be MUCH better for HD. Wouldn't you agree?

[ishida]

well, its obvious to me that acceptableusername is very biased.... the remington receiver IS stronger, its proven, the mossberg receiver will crack long before a remington meets its mid-life. the remington tube mag configuration you dont like?... the mossberg cant even use an extention, you need to buy a new barrel to use a longer mag... and to further rationalize you say the 500s receiver is lighter.. yes, but the overall weight of the gun is pretty much the same... another rationalization of yours, the slide lock release being in front of the receiver?... how often do you actually dump a mag.. and if emptying the magazine safely, why would i have or even want my finger on the trigger?...

this is why i went out and bought a new 870, it was after hearing all these 500 owners rationalize their decisions to make themselves feel better while 870 owners have given me nothing but confidence in their positive remarks on the shotgun

870 is the best hands down... and given winchesters features id probably take a 1200/1300 over a mossberg...

and this brings me to your last rationalization... value?... taxes including an 870 is only about $50 more, anyone who wouldnt pay the price of a few boxes of ammo for a better gun deserves an inferior product... and if youre using this for home defense, youre even moreso an idiot for not going with the better product just to save a few bucks
How funny justin. I see it as YOU rationalizing getting a more expensive product, but with less value for the money.

how has it been proven that the Mossberg will crack long before? I don't see a military contract for Remington 590s. Both the 500 and 590 passed the tests for durability and reliability, and they've both been abused in military and civilian applications. They last just as long, except they're a better value for the cash. They're also designed better.


Oh, and you're a damn hypocrite too.
"it was after hearing all these 500 owners rationalize their decisions to make themselves feel better while 870 owners have given me nothing but confidence in their positive remarks on the shotgun"
When it's a shotgun that's a better VALUE, it's rationalizing the purchase, but when it's more EXPENSIVE, it's just a plain-old positive comment?

[Virginian]

Good grief. Arguing over Remington and Mossberg pump shotguns is totally useless. I'm a Remington fan, but really, there is about 0.0000001% chance of either one not working right out of the box. And if you do have a problem, and call Rermington or Mossberg instead of bleating all over the internet, last time I looked, either one of them will take care of you. The feel is a little different, the controls are a little different, get whichever one you like best and don't look back. The ducks and the bad guys won't care which one you use.

[hometheaterman]

I've owned a Remington 870 Express and didn't like it at all and had issues with it. If it was me I'd either buy a Wingmaster or just get something else totally. I don't see why in the world anyone would buy an express when you can get a nice but used Wingmaster for the same price just about and not have to worry about it.

[mljdeckard]

I bought an express synthetic specifically to have a gun I can drag through the sagebrush and leave in the back of the truck covered with mud, and not feel bad about it. And I have hammered it. It's got melt smudges on the furniture where it touched the exhaust on an ATV. One day I cranked through a whole case of S&B imported birdshot shooting clays. It has never failed to fire, feed, or extract.

Maybe I'm a tasteless Philistine, and I should prefer purpose-built guns that cost thousands of dollars, and maybe one day when I'm rich I'll get a few, but right now, this is the gun I trust for EVERYTHING.

[blackops]

The 870 in the shotgun world is the AK of the assault rifle world. Built to last a very long time.

[hometheaterman]

I agree the 870 is however, I think it's the 870 wingmaster that is not the express line that often needs work right out of the box.

[Kernel]

Bought two Expresses in the last five years. Both have been flawless. Paid less than $250 NIB. They go on sale, plus Remington's rebate, every year like clockwork. Sold my Mossberg 500 10 years ago, long before the Remmies came into my life, but would never even consider another one. Take down and reassembly on the Remmy is much easier IMO. Higher build quality, too.