Input on small of back conceal carry


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Impureclient
October 25, 2009, 06:57 PM
I'm not having luck with the search for this so...

I want to hear from people who carry in the small of the back with IWB holsters or belly band velcro holsters. OWB holsters are out of the question as the would show through for sure
with just a t-shirt over it. First off, I have never in my life fell on by back let alone my lower back so I'm not concerned with falling on the gun. I am wearing loose shorts(no belt/zipper/buttons)
and an untucked t-shirt 99.9% of the time so it seems the only option to carry that will not print.

The gun I will be carrying is a Kahr CW9. It will fit in some of my shorts pockets but it kind of shows through a little so I don't trust it. That and the shorts I wear are stretchy kind of
fabric and it will flop around too much. So what brand and style have worked best to those who carry this way. I am 5'9" and 160, so if anybody fits closely to that description I'd really
like to hear from you especially.

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Shawn Dodson
October 25, 2009, 07:22 PM
Have you ever been in a fistfight? Grappling fight? Knocked to the ground? Swept off your feet? Ground fight?

What kind of a fight are you planning for? One you'll be in total control of?

Suggest you use a conventional IWB holster and wear it behind your strong side hip (about 4 o'clock). It'll do everything you intend to do with SOB carry.

You'll need a belt regardless of your choice of carry.

Starship1st
October 25, 2009, 07:24 PM
I like both: small-of-the-back and belly band. IMO both wear comfortable while sitting and I can wear a polo shirt and know that there is no buldge. :cool:

zoom6zoom
October 25, 2009, 07:45 PM
http://www.thegunzone.com/sob_is_bad.html

makarovnik
October 25, 2009, 08:25 PM
Not with my spine. I don't think it would help my herniated discs.

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
October 25, 2009, 09:16 PM
That is the ONLY way I carry right now.
IWB, small of back
it took some getting used to at first (walking, sitting, driving), but now carrying it that way is as natural to me as putting on underwear in the morning.

H&K USP CT .45

rcellis
October 25, 2009, 09:19 PM
I use a SOB holster - but I wear it behind my right hip. Works perfectly for me - but then I'm a 31 waist. Your Mileage May Differ.

mgregg85
October 25, 2009, 09:21 PM
SOB carry looks great in the movies, doesn't work good in real life.

JamisJockey
October 25, 2009, 09:28 PM
This....
Have you ever been in a fistfight? Grappling fight? Knocked to the ground? Swept off your feet? Ground fight?

What kind of a fight are you planning for? One you'll be in total control of?

Suggest you use a conventional IWB holster and wear it behind your strong side hip (about 4 o'clock). It'll do everything you intend to do with SOB carry.

You'll need a belt regardless of your choice of carry.

If you're on your back getting an MMA imitation beat down, good luck reaching and drawing SOB.

And this:
Not with my spine. I don't think it would help my herniated discs.

I had a good friend slip and fall while carrying SOB. Bruised his tailbone, you could actually see the outline of the gun bruised into the small of his back.

If I have to quickly slip a holster or gun into my belt, I might put it SOB. But as a day to day carry option? No thank you.

Vonderek
October 25, 2009, 09:56 PM
Not concerned with falling on the gun...okay. Have you ever been in a car accident or been rear-ended in your car? SOB is about the worst carry method I can think of. Being knocked down on your back or being in a car accident while carrying SOB could result in a devastating lifelong injury.

snorky18
October 25, 2009, 10:12 PM
Your chances of falling on your back or getting rear ended in a car accident are a lot higher than the chances of you ever needing a handgun. (I recently got rear ended 2 times in 3 days while waiting at red lights).

And I'm not trying to talk you out of carrying a handgun :) I just don't want to hear you end up in a wheel chair partially paralyzed, so I try to encourage people not to keep anything hard over their spine. Ever noticed that cops NEVER have anything on their belt over their spine? There's a reason for that.

Impureclient
October 25, 2009, 10:37 PM
OK I'm hearing loud and clear that the SOB is not so safe but how do carry with shorts and a t-shirt and not print? While we are on the subject
is it lawful if it shows through the clothing in FL? I get many conflicting answers to this depending on who I ask. That's
the reason I was thinking SOB. That is the only part on my body that 100% does not show at all. At 4 o'clock on strong side it kind of shows when I turn.
Does some part of the gun have to be physically visible or can an occasional "print" through the shirt still get me in trouble.

21bubba
October 25, 2009, 11:10 PM
O.K. I'm prepaired to get blasted but i have carried a variety of guns in the S.O.b. position. never had a problem in 10 years of carry, and yes i've busted my ass a few times.

I use a left handed clip-on IWB holster worn right handed. Before you say that during the draw that i " cover" part of my body, I contend that all carry positions "cover" some part of your body at some point during the draw. YMMV

Drail
October 25, 2009, 11:59 PM
I think the problem here is you want to carry (good) but you don't want to change your habit of dress. Carrying a gun means you have to dress around the fact that you're carrying a gun. And just because you've never fallen on your back does not mean that it can't happen. I have lived with back pain for forty years from a rear end car accident and I can honestly say I never thought that it would happen that morning. Stuff happens. As far as "printing" check your state laws.

Fumbler
October 26, 2009, 12:05 AM
I've tried SOB but it's horrible for printing and I don't like the idea of spine issues.
What if you had to pick something up? SOB prints real bad.

I'm 5'-8" and I carry IWB at my appendix (S&W J frame).
It's perfect for me. It's fast, in the best location for control, and never ever prints. I can bend over, reach both hands completely up, bend side to side, etc. The only time you can see it is if i bend backwards away from my strong side...but that never happens in the real world so it's not a problem.

At my size, I can wear a thin white Hanes size large undershirt and still not print. The grip tucks under my small belly roll. If I stand up straight the shirt pulls away from the gun. If I slouch the grip fits perfectly in one of the folds of the shirt.

A nice stiff leather belt is mandatory. I usually wear khakis but can wear any kind of pants as long as I have my gun belt.
The only problem I run into is I need to have the gun sit at exactly 1 o'clock. If there's a belt loop at that spot then it will print a tiny bit because I must move it to one side of the loop.

While we are on the subject
is it lawful if it shows through the clothing in FL? I get many conflicting answers to this depending on who I ask.
That's gonna vary from state to state and even person to person.
In some places concealed means you can't see any part of the gun. In other places it means you can't tell that there's a gun there.

snorky18
October 26, 2009, 01:05 PM
how do carry with shorts and a t-shirt and not print?

if you will wear a belt you could consider appendix carry as fumble suggested.

Otherwise, the only way I can think of would be in a smartcarry.

JamisJockey
October 26, 2009, 01:40 PM
Oh, and just to further add to it:
Being an unemployed bum, I do the shorts and t shirt thing alot. I wear shorts that have belt loops so that I can wear a belt, and I carry at 4 oclock, strong side, IWB.
My biggest complaint with plain old t shirts is that the gun will wear holes in the shirt. I've got 3 or 4 shirts right now with tiny holes in them, right where I carry. I've moved on to mostly wearing polos and button shirts of a higher quality than the standard t shirt, about 75% of the time.

Vonderek
October 26, 2009, 02:46 PM
OK I'm hearing loud and clear that the SOB is not so safe but how do carry with shorts and a t-shirt and not print?
I do it all the time....IWB at 4 oclock as others have mentioned. Suggestions: for IWB in Florida, try to get a holster with a sweatguard. Make sure your T-shirts are large enough. If you normally wear a L buy some XLs. Buy T-shirts in dark colors or prints...that will disguise the gun printing.

9mmepiphany
October 26, 2009, 04:48 PM
That is the only part on my body that 100% does not show at all. At 4 o'clock on strong side it kind of shows when I turn.
Does some part of the gun have to be physically visible or can an occasional "print" through the shirt still get me in trouble.

if it doesn't show 100% of the time, either you have a different definition of "show" or you never bend forward. the only time a SOB carry makes a lot of sense is standing a static security position (think VIP event protection)

i have a friend who teaches FL CCW classes. his take on it is that the "shall issue" law has made the state less tolerant of opencarry or flashing.

printing, exposing the outline of the gun so as to alert folks to the fact that you might be CCW could result in a call to LE depending on where you are and what you are doing.

if you insist on not wearing a belt, the best solution might be a belly band holster with the gun in the appendix position

Impureclient
October 26, 2009, 06:05 PM
When I said it doesn't show 100% I meant it doesn't show at all when walking, turning my body, reaching up...of course when I bend down it does but not so apparent as when bending side to side with it in appendix or 4 o'clock positions.
I figured if I had to bend down I would just bend my at my knees instead of bending at the waist while I carried there, if I carried there at all. With the gun in SOB and bending over it looks like I might have a back brace thing on. Now I've got the fear in me about doing damage so I guess IWB at 4 o'clock will have to be the way to go.

Thanks to everybody for the direction now I just have to decide which IWB holder to get. I believe the leather option is out as the weather here doesn't really permit it and also I'm hoping something synthetic would be thinner.

GreySmoke2
October 26, 2009, 10:32 PM
This is always interesting to read about as I live in the Peoples Republic Of Illinois and am unable to Carry at all. If we ever get the CC laws changed where should someone of my grand stature carry. I'm 6'1" tall and 375 with a 52" waist....Maybe im better off in Illinois....LOL:banghead:

Mr.510
October 27, 2009, 07:29 AM
Since you've (thank God!) already been talked out of carrying SOB I suggest a Comp-Tac MTAC at 3:30-4:00. I have mine adjusted for lots of forward cant and this keeps the butt of the grip tucked into my side. The MTAC is a hybrid leather and Kydex holster. The leather goes against your body and has a full "sweat shield" so you don't need an undershirt. The Kydex half-shell attaches to it with screws and can be swapped for different shells to fit other guns if you so desire. It's "tuckable" as well but I never tuck in a shirt, I'm far too :cool: for that.

I carried a Comp-Tac Infidel IWB for a while before getting my MTAC. The Infidel is all Kydex and I absolutely had to wear an undershirt or the plastic really tore up my hide! The worst part was when I got sweaty and the Kydex glued itself to my skin. You could literally hear the "shwaaack" sound as I peeled it off. :barf:

Leather against skin is the ticket it hot weather and/or if you sweat a lot. I don't see a lot of hot weather but I do sweat. I thought the holster would get "funky" from being literally soaked in sweat at times but it hasn't in two years of daily carry. I've never cleaned or conditioned it in any way and it's doing great.

armoredman
October 27, 2009, 11:30 AM
I don't quite go SOB with the BUG...here's where it sits in the OWB winter carry.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/newangle2.jpg

Same location summertime, but in an IWB rig. Second the oversize t-shirt reccomendation. Good ones are at Walmart when they clearance the hunting stuff, camo t's for $5 or less. :)

Erik M
October 31, 2009, 07:56 PM
When im four-wheeling If I dont wear a drop leg holster I will wear a roto-holster in the small of my back. I never wear leather when I ride because we see alot of mud. Its comfortable and out of the way but I would think it would be hard to try and conceal it.

9mmepiphany
October 31, 2009, 09:17 PM
HAZEL
LEATHER

Look at concealed
carry from a whole
new angle.

why would they call something from the 1800's new?

i don't have a personal problem with carrying "high calvary", but i don't recommend it for others who have issues with sweeping themselves.

i order my T-shirts from Eddie Bauer...i just order the "long" versions

21bubba
November 1, 2009, 01:41 AM
Describe for me which carry position it is, that at some point during a draw doesn't "sweep" some part of your body.

Impureclient
November 1, 2009, 01:52 AM
Well I went with an Uncle Mike's inside the pant, size 1, synthetic material one. I'm carrying it appendix as with it in the back sticks out a little too much.
It seemed to draw faster there in front also. It fits my CW9 perfect and with the shorts and t shirt it only shows a slight bump in my shirt if I bend left or
right pretty far. With normal walking, turning, and bending it doesn't show at all. Even when turning far it still looks like it could just be a fold in the shirt.
I just have to make sure my posture is good...... if I slouched the handle would push on the t-shirt. Standing upright with that good posture it sits totally
flat against my body. I really didn't think carrying would be so unnoticeable and comfortable. I imagine I will get used to it pretty quick.

Thanks for the help :)

9mmepiphany
November 1, 2009, 03:26 AM
Describe for me which carry position it is, that at some point during a draw doesn't "sweep" some part of your body.

i carry OWB just behind the point of my strong side hip and at no point during my draw does the muzzle of my gun sweep any part of my body.

the muzzle starts out pointed behind me, comes up the outside of my leg and sweeps toward the target as i get to "high ready". as the muzzle levels toward the target, the support hand come up from below to establish the support grip over the strong hand.

are you using a different drawing motion?

21bubba
November 1, 2009, 10:13 AM
This is just food for thought. Take a laser equipped handgun, tape the activation button on, place in holster, now watch the dot as you go through a drawstroke. I think you'll see my point.

9mmepiphany
November 1, 2009, 05:12 PM
i just did, still don't see the point...closest it comes is just prior to rotating the gun to high ready...dot runs just outside my shoe

i'm using a Comp-Tac Adjustable Cant Paddle and a Sig 220

21bubba
November 1, 2009, 07:23 PM
OK i must be doing something wrong.

9mmepiphany
November 1, 2009, 09:19 PM
it got me curious so i tried it with my Beretta 96 in it's Alessi ACP, my 220ST in a Alessi CQC/s and a Commander in a Safariland 6378...i'm still not seeing it.

which part of your body are you sweeping?

21bubba
November 1, 2009, 09:59 PM
Mid and lower strong side leg.

9mmepiphany
November 2, 2009, 12:04 AM
^^^
might i venture a guess that you're using a Modified Weaver stance?

try a Modern Isosceles...no more sweeping and more consistent sight return

21bubba
November 2, 2009, 12:48 AM
I don't know if i can put a exact name to my stance, probably closer to modified weaver. Dam sure not modern isosceles, which may work well on the range but i have my doubt's about it's use in the real world.

9mmepiphany
November 2, 2009, 02:38 AM
but i have my doubt's about it's use in the real world.

it's pretty universal among special response teams, optimizes the protection offered by soft body armour and increased arc of engagement

21bubba
November 2, 2009, 01:47 PM
Sorry i don't live in the taticool world. Don't have over whelming force and fire power behind me.

JimGnitecki
April 16, 2010, 02:27 PM
If you really always wear stretchy shorts without a belt, anoher optino that would work really well for you is a Thunderwear holster.

This is a denim cloth lined holster that has a "belt" secured via velcro aorund your waist and a 2-compartment pouch that can carry a firearm left handed or right handed, that you position above the crotch. It conceals even rather large firearms well. With larger firearm, it actually merely makes you look, uh, well endowed.

It's amazingly comfortable. When I wore mine, I would actually forget it was there - until I needed to go to the restroom. At that point, you merely open up, or open and drop the pants, and then "flip" the holster upward away from your plumbing. You can sit in a restroom stall without your neighbor seeing a holster and gun on the floor, as the holster remains hund on your waist.

The draw would NORMALLY be slower than from a belt holster, BUT if your shorts are actually elastic or stretchable, you could simply pull them forward with offhand while drawing with strong hand. Should be pretty rapid.

I am looking for a different solution myself only because I'd lack a faster draw, and my consistent use of a heavy belt makes that impossible with the Thunderwear. The fastest presentation I've found with the Thunderwear when worn with a strong pants belt is to simply yank open the fly on the pants and pull the gun from there. That's still slow. But, your stretchy shorts nullify that problem.

Jim G

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