[Redfern]

Since the small .22 semi-auto (Jennings)was seen behind my belt during field work, I was reported.

The first Comittee meeting: I try to lie, and claim it was a CO2 pellet gun.

The second Comittee meeting I came clean and admitted I carried it.

I haven't been punished or fired yet: I am claiming that my "High Anxiety" from a fear of being attacked was the reason I carried. I am a non-confrontational person but I am concerned about my personal safety during field work.

Meanwhile, I just received notice of an independent medical exam i should go to ( in 2 weeks).

Do I need an Attorney? Or am I just screwed, and out of a job?



:confused:

[Mike Irwin]

Big question is, what do your terms of employment say about carrying guns.

Is the medical exam a psych exam?

[Dave R]

If it were me...this is one of those times when an attorney is worth the fee. For a consult, if nothing else.

[Sprout]

Lawyer up. Most attorneys will do a consultation for free.

[Andrew Wyatt]

were you carrying legally?

[Double Naught Spy]

If carrying is not permitted by your employer and your employer is emphatic about it, then your employer can fire you. The fact that you initially lied about the gun is not going to work in your favor.

No doubt your "high anxiety" of being attacked is going to be perceived as being paranoid unless you can produce some sort of valid/justified argument to substantiate your fear. Even if against the rules, if you can show a valid reason you were carrying (and assuming you didn't break any laws), then they may opt not to fire you.

Sadly, you were caught CCW because your weren't actually carrying concealed.

[Frohickey]

Independent medical exam...

Hmm... its time to cut your losses and ditch the job. You don't know what that medical exam has in store for you.

[Matt G]

Redfern:

Get a lawyer? Yes. Actually. You should.

--Matt G.

[swampsniper]

I carried, against company rules, for the last six years I worked. I would have been out the door in an instant had I been caught, but it was a dangerous job. I hung on to the job because it was dangerous enough that they could get few people to stay, and I needed the money all the resulting overtime brought. The Cops that worked the area knew I was armed, thought it was a good idea, and did not report me to the company. Somehow, through the grapevine, all the drunks, addicts and other possible trouble sources got the word that the old guy behind the counter might be a bit dangerous, and I had a lot less trouble than most who worked my hours when I was off. I imagine I have the Cops to thank for this.
I can understand company policies. You have to make your own decisions, however, and understand the risks involved. At your point, I would resign. No telling what the company doctor or shrink will make you out to be.:D

http://groups.msn.com/Riflephotos

[gunsmith]

jennings?
that was your first mistake.
get a North American Mini Arms in .22mag
to keep in your pocket.
tell the central committee your sorry,just saw "bowling for columbine"
and now you know the error of your ways.
The central committee being a bunch of insipid morons (all anti gun folks are real dumb)
will believe you and you can keep your job.
keep it concealed and it will be concealed...you have a permit right?


__________________

mike moore is a jerk!

[swingset]

My advice? There are a million jobs, but only 1 you. You carried, you got caught, if they can you fine move on and find something else.

I carry against company policy, but my basic human rights override my paranoid boss, so I fully accept the risk and the consequences.

BTW, I don't wanna be a jerk, but a .22 Jennings is not much of a carry gun - in fact it's a piss-poor one to rely on to save your life. See the video of the lawyer getting shot 6 times to convince yourself your gun is nearly useless in a gun battle.

A good .40 cal in a small frame can be had for $250, God sakes go buy yourself one.

[telewinz]

I wish you the best of luck in your case but what you did is just plain DUMB! Why not leave a bottle of Jim Beam on your desk also, that way you will be ready when you or a co-worker might need a drink. You are letting your passion for guns cloud your judgement and control your life. You are on your way out (due process) the medical exam will test your mental health more than anything else, get a lawyer. If you are taking any medications maybe the lawyer can claim impaired judgement (side effects) or agree to counseling and get you off with a suspension. IT IS MOST LIKELY your best option is to resign before you are terminated, but there are not a million GOOD paying jobs out there. You need to change your behavior if you ever wish to obtain and KEEP a good paying job. Swingset is correct, there are a million (jobs) pizza delivery jobs out there but is that the "career" you will be happy with when you are 40? :uhoh:my basic human rights override my paranoid boss, so I fully accept the risk and the consequences.

CCW in many states (and locations) is not a basic human right, its a felony!

[Lone_Gunman]

I think you might be wasting your money on a lawyer, not sure how a lawyer could help.

If the company has a "no guns" policy, then a lawyer really can't help you.

Lying about the gun certainly didnt help either.

Were you otherwise carrying legally, company policy not withstanding?

This medical exam thing is interesting. Would you have had to undergo it anyway? or is this in response to the gun?

[swingset]

IT IS MOST LIKELY your best option is to resign before you are terminated, but there are not a million GOOD paying jobs out there. You need to change your behavior if you ever wish to obtain and KEEP a good paying job. Swingset is correct, there are a million (jobs) pizza delivery jobs out there but is that the "career" you will be happy with when you are 40?

You're awful judgmental, and I mean that in the harshest way I can say and still be a good board member. Lookie here, you wanna lay down your BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to defend your life for an unconsitutional law or for a job, fine - better to comply with the law. You'll thank yourself when you're life is threatened. As someone who's been through an assault, let me say have a good time, I hope you're last thought is "Well, at least I didn't piss my boss off".

And, as for jobs, you're totally wrong. There are good jobs, and no job is worth dying for. None. I lost a very good job several years ago over an ethics question, and walked out without prospects in the middle of a bad time for my industry. Things were tough for a while, then I landed a better job. I don't deliver pizzas, either.

The guy did something that has consequences, but it doesn't make it wrong. Lay off him. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Jack19]

I haven't read through all the responses, but....this is what gives responsible firearms owners a bad name.

Your agency policy will play into this, although the fact that you've been to two "committee" meetings tell me that it frowns, officially, on weapons carry.

If it isn't an officially written policy you could have claimed ignorance if you had not already lied to them about what it was. That indicates to me that you knew their policy. Now, everything you say is suspect.

Still, I don't have an issue with your carrying even when it was against the policy of your employer, lots of people make that decision. But, the lying was a huge mistake. Odds are they may fire you for lying if their firearms policy isn't clear.

How did you fail to conceal a Jennings .22?

At this point, I'd have a heart to heart with my boss. Confess to extreme stupidity, poor decision making, fear, enlightenment, and, then, promise that it will never happen again and see if he, or she, will go to bat for you with the powers-that-be.

On the up side, the order to report for the IME is semi-positive. If they were going to fire you right away, they'd just do it. On the other hand, if it's a psych exam.......

And, yeah, I'd also heed the advice to lawyer up. At least as far as a consultation regarding how to handle the IME. Beyond that, I think you're wasting your money if the policy is written and you had knowledge of it. You won't be winning any wrongful termination suits.

[TonyB]

I too work in a state run facility(mental hospital)...and do not carry while at work.....we have a security office that I sometimes keep my gun in their safe......it does suck but I NEED my job.....I carry at all other times....good luck man......I'd avoid the "medical exam" if at all possible..it's going to be a psych exam and it could lead to your CCW being pulled......:(

[Waitone]

Get a lawyer and let him tell you that you are screwed.

Beware the medical exam. I suspect it is connected with your recent troubles. A psych exam can really mess up your future use of firearms.

Yea, a lawyer sounds good to me.

[Bill Hook]

Never lie, as this alone is grounds for termination and what I'd suspect they'll use as the reason, rather than the gun.

A lawyer might beat a fuzzy weapons policy, but not untruthfulness. I'd look into resigning and a new job, after consulting with a lawyer who specializes in employment issues. Be sure to bring all the copies of you agency's policies w/ you to make it more productive.

[Andrew Rothman]

Redfern wrote on April 14th (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18475):When I asked the "Executives" of my department to obtain "advanced written permission" to carry in the field, I was told that the "Firearms Prohibited Policy" is completely defensible in Washington State's AG's office, and I would lose my job.
So clearly he had already asked for, and been denied, permission to carry.

You're outa luck, dude. Quit while you're ahead.

[444]

There isn't enough information to answer. Is there a clear cut policy against carrying on the job ? And most important of all, are you a union worker ?

[swampsniper]

There is also no doubt in my mind that the exam will be by a shrink. It will not matter what your actual mental condition is if the Doctor happens to be one of the many that believe that anyone associated with a gun has mental problems. One little note on a report can put you on the list for no more guns as long as you live. I would not allow this exam to take place.
You can find a job. Take this as an example of what happens when you are a little careless, take the hit on your lifestyle for a while if you have to, and work through it. If you fight it your'e going to lose.
By the way, some of you folks would be amazed to know what a buddy of mine makes delivering pizza.

http://groups.msn.com/Riflephotos

[spacemanspiff]

CCW in many states (and locations) is not a basic human right, its a felony!
its only a felony because those states/locations arbitrarily reject the human rights that the Constitution recognizes. the human right to self defense is still there, but the powers that be refuse to let their servants defend themselves.

[OF]

Consult a lawyer and ask them what happens if you quit. Then quit. What good could possibly come from staying on?

- Gabe

[444]

Before everyone gets too carried away we need to find out what the rules of the game are.
Do they have a specific written policy in regard to carry concealed weapons ? If they do, there isn't much you can do about it. You violated one of the rules and you will be punished. If this is the case I would just quit rather than go to the "Physical".
If there is no clear cut written policy, are you a union worker ? If you are a union worker, you have recourse. #1 you won't have to take the "physical" #2 you won't be disiplined since you didn't violate any of the rules #3 if they want to push it, the union will provide the lawyer. If you are a union worker, you need to immediately contact your union and discuss the matter with them. Don't do anything without representation.
Did you violate any law by carrying ? Was concealed carry legal where you did it ? Do you have a concealed carry permit ?

[Obiwan]

I feel bad for your situation

But I always wonder when people break the rules and then try to find a way around it.

Don't like the rules...find a place with better rules...

or follow the rules......

Or break them......but don't whine if you get caught.

And lying just digs the hole deeper...

I am big on second chances in most cases ...but not when the guy lies.

And I would resign rather than take the IME...work out the best severance you can.

[Big_R]

The company I work for also has a no weapons policy. It's pretty easy to understand as are the rest of the policies which state you may be subject to corrective action up to and including termination. I'm a big supporter of CCW, but if one of my employees was caught, my hands would be for the most part tied. I would do everything I could to keep them from being fired, but at best, they would be on probation (no more warnings) and suspended. This means no more raises or advancement for a while.

Your job must be union. If it were in the company I work for, it wouldn't have gotten this far and I'd most likely be hiring your replacement. You knew the rules, took the risk, and got busted. I'd try to work out a way for you to resign in good standing. It looks better on your resume.

Ryan

[swampsniper]

In this day and age if you get anything at all questionable, valid or not, on a medical record, I guarantee you it will be used as evidence against you by every antigun liberal that can dig it up. This is not a time to be a crusader, cover your behind and get to heck out. All the moral victories in the world are not going to be much comfort when you go to buy a gun you want, and are told that you may not, because of a report that casts doubt on your emotional stability.
The union may be able to save your job, but there is nothing they can do if some left wing shrink decides you are a liability in any way. This is not a science, it involves a lot of half baked conjectures, and personal opinions, and you have a better than even chance of getting the shaft. You can take this as from someone who was studying psychology until He ran out of money and had to go get a job in the real world. Most shrinks are wackos.
You screwed up, we all do, it is not the end of the world. Cover your behind and run.

[444]

"The union may be able to save your job, but there is nothing they can do if some left wing shrink decides you are a liability in any way. "

Well if there is no written policy on this, and he is union, the union can prevent him from taking the "physical" at all unless the physical is something that all employees are required to take. If he was singled out for this physical and was not in violation of any policy, it won't fly.

[Dave R]

Just to inject a note of hope into this situation...

I used to work in CA at a company with a "no firearms" policy spelled out in the employee handbook. You can be fired for it.

One employee accidentally dumped the .357mag revolver in his briefcase out while fishing for some paper. Seen by many.

He got a good tongue-lashing from the CEO. Promised to never do it again. He was a good employee, and they wanted to keep him. So that was the end of it.

OTOH, the impending medical exam in this case sounds like a "no-win" situation to me.

If you feel you can get away with it, you might just ask the appropriate responsible manager here whether the expectation is that you'll be terminated. If you can trust the person, and if they say yes, you should offer to resign to save them the trouble of the due process. Could possibly save yourself a good job reference that way.

[swampsniper]

My experience is that "pie in the sky" is more likely to be waste from the seagull that just flew overhead. If you are independently wealthy, fight it, if not go job hunting. The union is wonderful, but limited. Here, I make my stand.

[telewinz]

If your state employment laws are anything like mine, you are lucky they did not fire you on the spot. The state must follow certain guidelines BEFORE they terminate you. At this point a lawyer would not (should not)get involved unless the state isn't following these guidelines also you will have an appeals process if the state decides to punish you. Even at this point a lawyer would be of little use since due process is being followed. Your best resort might be to talk to your department head and ask what is the past outcome of cases like yours? If he responds Termination, then resign and hope the investigation will be dropped. Since this is not a court case (yet) its not public information and your privacy (by law) will have to be respected. The downside is that should you ever apply for ANY government job or any private sector job that requires a security clearance that information will probably be released to the investigating party. The damage is done, you lied and then you confressed. A lawyer can't change that fact and would only be an added expense. I am at a loss to understand why you have not already been suspended or were not terminated on the spot. They had to notify law enforcement right? Since you probably committed a felony, are you sure you want to pull the Tiger by the tail?:uhoh: Your rights as a state employee are at least equal any Union protection, you need much more than that, you need immunity! Good Luck

[Strings]

I never saw an answer to the question "were you carrying legally?". Are you jumping to conclusions about the "probably commited a felony?" here? Hell, even here in Wisconsin (no CCW allowed), it's only a misdeamenor...

[RustyHammer]

.... never the less, get your ducks (and your resume) in order.

[Standing Wolf]

Jobs are easier to replace than lives.

[revlar]

So much of this will depend upon departmental policy. As a state employee I am bound by a variety of written policies - but so is the department. Before they would be able to terminate me they must get all of their ducks lined up. Even if terminated (regardless of the reason) any prospective future employer would ONLY be informed; 1) that I once worked for the agency, 2) what my job title was, and 3) the time period of my employment. Due to possible liability concerns, absolutely no details pertaining to disciplinary actions, performance reviews, circumstances of termination, etc., can be released by the department.
Priority one should be to thoroughly research written departmental policy regarding disciplinary actions/termination. The department may be much more severly restricted in what they can do - and in what information they would be able to release - than many of us may suspect. State agencies are VERY lawsuit-shy.

[Horsesense]

I looked up some of his posts. He seems like a good guy. He has at least one kid, reloads and probably has a mortgage. I wouldn't presume to give advice, not knowing all the details… I will pray for him and his family.

PS: I do know that if he quits, he can not draw unemployment.

[Tamara]

Are you jumping to conclusions about the "probably commited a felony?"

He lives in Ohio, and sometimes equates the customs of his tribe with the laws of the universe. :)

[Redfern]

I appreciate the responses! OK, to clear up some items:

1. I was carrying legally.

2. I was working out of town, and in an area of no 911.

3. I don't know if it is a medical or physch exam, but intend to find out tomorrow.

4. Yes, I am taking meds for anxiety/obsessive behavior. They requested a release on my doctor's reason's for the meds.

5. A Lockback knife was (in hindsight) a better choice.

6. I was climbing on a structure and my shirt hiked up to expose the backstrap. It never left the clip-on holster. (YES, Bianchi makes them)

6a. The Lead employee asked me later that day about what he saw, and I admitted " it was a .22 firearm that would make some noise and give us a chance to get away".

7. I was told to leave it in my motel room for the next work day. ( that would have been an irresponsible act, but no great loss if stolen.)

8. Yes, the employment Policy forbids it, and last April, I asked to, was denied, and the policy was changed to remove the clause " UNLESS ADVANCE WRITTEN PERMISSION IS OBTAINED".

9. Things seem okay in the office, they pulled me from field work pending resolution, which MAY include an"accomadation" for my anxiety.
(Hopefully).

10. I am 48, so job hunting is not feasible. (18 years with my employer, clean record, good performance reviews from my boss, your average overweight divorced guy.)

11. DUMB move on part: I apoligized and assured them I would follow Policy in the future. I said I was regretful my actions caused concerns and raised suspicions. I explained that my obsessive nature lead me to be overly concerned about my personal safety

12. Two months ago, a different Lead employee, 32 years old,was busted for 131 plants in his garage. While he was arrested at the office, the cops found a loaded .357 revovler in his car, (parked in the State parking lot). P.S. No connection to me, just part of the timeline.

14. The Washington State Constitution, Article 1, Section 24: "No man shall be denied the right to bear arms........

15. RCW 9.41.70: "A Sheriif or Law enforment agency "Shall Issue" a CPL to citizens who pass the background check."

[Bill Hook]

What's #13?

Points #14 and #15 are irrelevant if the bosses make a policy contrary to them, despite the letter of the law. By rights, the 2nd should guarantee CCW, full auto, etc., but the powers-that-be have decided otherwise. If you claim it was your right, then expect to bear the burden of proof and, most likely, not to win.

Good luck, but I think lying will be the sticking point.

[telewinz]

Yes, I am taking meds for anxiety/obsessive behavior. They requested a release on my doctor's reason's for the meds.

Ok, now we have something to work with. Let me see if I understand the chain of events:

1. Due to the environment you were working in, did your anxiety level go sky-high?

2. To cope with this situation (until you could see your own doctor) did you increase your daily intake of meds?

3. The night before did you consume any alcoholic drinks?

ODing on your meds along with the consumption of alcoholic drinks (?) created an adverse chemical reaction (and possibly) caused impaired judgement on your part. You may be a victim and may not be held fully responsible for your behavior in which case termination/suspension may not be justified. This might also explain why you lied when you were first asked about CCW.

IF all these events are accurate and truthful I would callup your doctor and explain what happened and also inform the state doctor.

What many people do not know is that alcohol/over medication may have adverse effects. Check with your doctor to see if these side effects could have occurred in YOUR case. Do not be untruthful.

[mec]

Redfern: Did the same thing as you for a number of years and retired unscathed. Job I had was with a Texas Agency with a no weapons of any sort policy. The agency employed quite a number of liberals many of whom were mentally ill and ineffectual and deeply afraid of guns. Security guards were unarmed so as not to incite phobic reactions.

My job entailed dealing with savages and an unwritten part of it was that I would accompany other employees into the most dangerous areas. The gun was discussed only on one or two occasions with employees of good judgement and then only because their was a high potential for it coming into play. My mode of carry was effective enough that the gun was invisible in the workplace. Interestingly though, one or two street monsters did observe me closely enough to realize I was armed. They must have been employing their victim selection process to have been so observant.

The question came up at a meeting of Concealed Handgun Instructors last year. The gunwriter Jim Wilson was the keynote speaker. His take was, " What is more important- a job or your life?" I've heard the same thing from most clear thinking individuals.

[bogie]

Maybe the anxiety _is_ understandable - after all, sometimes there IS someone out to get you...

Have you ever been threatened on the job? Have you ever been attacked on the job? Have any coworkers, have anyone you KNOW, or even a "friend of a friend" been attacked or threatened? Have you been threatened or attacked _off_ the job? While traveling? As a female, you can push the envelope a litttle - you require a greater degree of personal protection via the use of tools (in this case the POS auto...) than a male.

Why is concern for one's safety an unreasonable obsession?

When interviewing with the MD or shrink, stress that you do not feel obsessed wtih safety from coworkers, etc., but that you're worried about carjackers, muggers, etc. - YOU ARE NOT A THREAT.

[RustyHammer]

Consult with attorney ....
May be a lot cheaper than consulting
with a head-hunter if you lose your job!

[dustind]

I would talk to a lawyer before the IME. IME are not independant they are hand picked. I suggest a google search on the subject to learn a little bit, and about about your rights. You also need to know how to answer questions and how not too, very important.

Example: They ask you a question, you answer, then they do not respond and wait for you to say more. Do not do that, it is a trick to get more info out of you.

[discusser]

Hi Redfern. What was the outcome of all this?

Thanks. :)

[George S.]

As a retired WA State employee (DSHS) who worked on the Capitol Campus in Olympia, state regulations (WAC and RCW, not individual agency policy) forbid the carrying of a gun on state property or in buildings (the State Capitol building does allow concealed carry but that is a different issue from the one here).

Having a valid CCW is probably on your side for the specific instance, but you didn't say what agency you worked for or the capacity you were working. Labor & Industries, Dept of Transportation, GA or?? Did the job site have specific bans posted on the carrying of weapons? A private company or contractor can do this and it would extend to visitors and even state inspectors.

Ater reading your numbered comments, it sounds like from #8, the agency policy at this time was "no carry on the job" and will most likely go against you, especially if you had previously asked and were turned down.

The #12 paragraph is probably not germain to your case, but a loaded gun in the Plaza Garage is definitely against RCW and would be grounds for disciplinary action or dismissal. Information packets for new state employees point this out, quoting the WAC involved and the penalties for getting caught. All buildings on the Captiol grounds have signs posted that say guns are not allowed and quote the specific RCW and the penalty.

By now, you are probably a member of one or the other Unions, so you might contact them for advice. Otherwise it might be prudent to retain counsel if there is a chance that any disiplinary action against you may include termination. While termination is not a difficult to do as it was years ago, a pattern of disobeying rules may go against you.

While the last two items, the quotes from the WA Constitution and RCW for CCW permits, are true and do provide us with our rights, there are state laws that prohibit carry in certain places, CCW or not. We may not like them, but for state employees who are career-minded people, we have to follow those laws.

With your 18 years vested in PERS 2, I would certainly use any means available to insure job security. It sounds like you have taken the first steps but you should follow the agency rules from now on.

I know this is a new time for WA State employees (only us WA guys in state gov't would know about this stuff so I 'm not trying to keep things from the rest of you folks!! :D ) so try to follow the rules and get this matter settled.

[saltydog]

No offense but if someone saw your handgun then it wasn't CCW. I know what you mean though as I sometime's don't zip my coat up. :cool:

[thatguy]

I'm very sorry for you but I think you're screwed. As a former state employee myself I know that packing on the job is guaranteed cashier time. Not only is it against policy but also in violation of state law. You could be prosecuted.

I would resign immediately. I would NOT submit to any medical exam. I would walk away and hope that making the problem go away satisfies them and they don't persue criminal actions. I have worked for state agencies in three states and they all took carrying a gun very seriously and no excuses were accepted.

[rick_reno]

Redfern,

Be a shame if you tripped on something at work and because of the subsequent fall had to file a disability claim.

[45Badger]

Be a shame if you tripped on something at work and because of the subsequent fall had to file a disability claim.

How is this even possibly a good idea or suggestion?

Don't we all pay enough in taxes without having to pay for STUPID abuses of the system like you seem to be suggesting?

The man seems to have issues telling the truth. He broke a work rule (that by accepting the job and PAYCHECK) he is supposed to uphold. His choices and actions put him in this pickle.

Why on earth would you or anybody be advising him to further abuse his already deficient sense of integrity? :banghead:

[JohnBT]

"One little note on a report can put you on the list for no more guns as long as you live."

Excuse me, but that just isn't so. Maybe you're just exaggerating for dramatic purposes, but someone might take you seriously. A person would have to be determined to be an immediate danger to himself or others after a 72-hour evaluation, AND THEN if they are committed for involuntary treatment at the hearing they would be in trouble as a gunowner.

Let's not go spreading rumors and inaccurate information.

John

[Model520Fan]

You unquestionably need a lawyer COMPETENT IN THE RELEVANT AREAS OF LAW. You are not just dealing with employment, which may be one concern, and may be a lost cause, you are also dealing with future gun rights.

Relevant points to discuss with your lawyer:

Were you carrying legally? If not, you may be getting off easy if you don't admit it where it counts (where you already admitted it may, unfortunately, count).

If you are home free on the above, do you really want to get a medical exam (bull???? for psych eval) in a FUTILE (?) attempt to keep a job, when that exam may result in your never getting a permit anywhere, or even being allowed to own guns?

I'm sure there are many more issues.

LAWYER UP, AND DON"T GO TO ANY PSYCH EVAL WITHOUT A LAWYER, OR, MORE LIKELY, AT ALL.

JMO.

520 (Carried CONCEALED every single day for seven years, legally but against company policy for three or four.)

[Model520Fan]

Excuse me, but that just isn't so. Maybe you're just exaggerating for dramatic purposes, but someone might take you seriously. A person would have to be determined to be an immediate danger to himself or others after a 72-hour evaluation, AND THEN if they are committed for involuntary treatment at the hearing they would be in trouble as a gunowner.

Let's not go spreading rumors and inaccurate information.


Fifty states and a few possessions and districts, and you're sure of the law for all of them?

[Sistema1927]

Why hasn't anyone told Redfern that the second smartest thing to do is to NOT discuss the details of this situation on an Internet message board?



(Number one is to get an attorney)

[Gewehr98]

that happened in November of 2003? (Note the date of the first posting in this thread) :rolleyes:

[sturmruger]

I guess that is the beauty of VB, threads from years ago can get resurected from the dead.

[Retread]

Darn, got me worked up over something this old....

[Redfern]

The attorney said if I got fired, call him. Otherwise, if a suspension is decreed, take it. (2 weeks off with no pay). Thank you, to the great State of Washington!

[Gewehr98]

What finally happened, Redfern? Did you get a 2-week suspension? Did you buy a better handgun? Since it's now a live thread, and all... :D

[Redfern]

Yes, that was the outcome. I just carry 2 wallets, now. :-)

[USP45usp]

Dude, don't sweat it.

You may be fired, so what, 48 and with skills, you can get another job. You felt the need to carry and that's good enough for me.

Learn how to conceal carry. A jennings? You were caught with a jennings. Dude, I own one (just don't tell the other members on this board, they will laugh me out of the place) and they fit into your front pocket with no problem.

I'm nor bashing on you, but you did screw up. I carry a 4.5in Kimber .45 to work each and every day. It has the full sized frame so it's the same as carring a full sized Kimber, and I get away with it each and every day. I have a couple of methods of carry, fanny pack (hey, I'm gay, what do I care), IWB in the winter, in the car, etc..

No one has made me yet, yet they do suspect due to I have a big mouth.

I wish you well, and please, spend some time in front of the mirror :).

Wayne

[SUE ROVR]

Next time:

Lie and stick with it or SAY NOTHING!

I don't know what they have seen.

(note not an actual lie, pushing it to the limit but not actually a lie)

I feel uncomfortable with the tone of this meeting. I feel that I am being wrongfully accused and cornered here.

NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING. NEVER SAY ANYTHING EVER. YOU CANNOT TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF IT.

YOU CAN ONLY HURT YOURSELF BY TALKING.

Just a heads up for the next time.

YOU CAN ALWAYS REFUSE A SEARCH, YOU CAN ALWAYS LEAVE UNLESS YOU ARE UNDER ARREST.

IF THEY INSIST ON SEARCHING YOU MAKE IT CLEAR YOU DO NOT GIVE CONSENT BUT DO NOT RESIST.

[Mark13]

I'm happy you got to keep your job, they must really like you.

I think in the future, anyone who has your problem would be best served by:

1. Never admit you had a gun, not to anyone.

2. Count on people not knowing guns. If you accidentally flash it, and someone asks you about it, tell them it's a pager, or a cell phone. And be prepared to show them something that is finished like whatever your gun looks like.

3. Keep an agreeable, non-argumentative attitude. If you are nervous no one will buy your story.

4. If your job depends on you concealing your weapon, you probably won't get a free pass like this guy did. Put some serious thought into how you are never going to be made by anyone, under any circumstances.

"oops did i just flash my gun to that soccer mom stuffing a hot dog into her face as i lifted my daughter out of the shopping cart at costco?"

[bogie]

Redfern, got a serious question - what did the "medical exam" determine? Was it really a psych exam, just to see if you were ready to snap, and stalk from cubicle to cubicle with a self-loading semi-automatic high powered carbine? (sorry, can't remember the exact wording of the "Fight Club" rant, but hey...)

Glad you got your vacation.

If _anything_ gnarsty happens to you on the job, blame the heck out of the your supervisor. See right now if your lawyer will help you sue 'em on.

[Redfern]

2 months later. Basically, the Employer had to determine if I was a liability to them, and the physchiatric evaualtion said "No". I encounter transients on my job, so the conclusion of the evaluation was: "Employee has high anxiety when encountering strangers"

Even though I am an NRA trained Pistol Instructor (I got accredidation through my gun club), I had to promise not to carry a gun again, while being employed.

[stealthmode]

wow that sucks for you , my old boss wanted me to bring a gun to work because my side of the shop didnt have a phone and was closed off from the other side at night when i worked. lots of wierdos come out at night i have seen some crazy stuff and have been in a couple of situations when i could have needed a gun but managed to diffuse the situations with the threat that i already called 911 and the cops were on their way. soon after i told my boss i didnt want to work the night hours but still kept a gun in my shop.

[Brass Balls]

Interesting. If I may make a couple of suggestions.

Get a Kahr PM9 and ditch the Jennings Get a Smart Carry holster so the gun will never be seen again.

[OpenRoad]

n/m

[Hawkmoon]

<Deleted>

Sorry -- Didn't see how old this thread was

[Gunpacker]

Great that you keep your job. Bet we all know what will happen next time. Only you can judge the worth of carrying now, but I suspect that you will only think about it in a really dire situation.

[13A]

Congratulations. You dodged the bullet this time.

[Big Gay Al]

4. Yes, I am taking meds for anxiety/obsessive behavior. They requested a release on my doctor's reason's for the meds.

I'm really glad for you that everything worked out. But in Michigan, being treated for a "mental illness" alone would cost you your CCW permit.

[bobby68]

don't know if this was suggested, but if you do not admit carrying then don't they have to PROVE that you violated the policy. Somebody claiming that they think they saw you carrying is not conclusive proof... they would need to verify that it was a real gun, or you would need to confess.

it's probably to late since i think that you confessed. but for someone else who is ever reported, i have heardof similar cases where the guilty person gets a pass because the crime was never proven.

[Big Gay Al]

I think the problem is, it was seen by someone else, and he admitted to that person, who then reported him.

Just my own observation here, he should have concealed his weapon better than he did. In some places, (Texas for instance) you can be charged with a crime for letting your concealed weapon be seen.

[utahminirevolver]

Congrats, Redfern, on keeping your job. I was terminated (they said 'for cause'. Actually, I estimate it was about 25% for cause and 75% unfair office politics, but that's life) from a good-paying job at age 46, but my family was always there. I went from low-paying jobs back up to medium-paying work and enjoy life more this way.

As for the Jennings J-22, I read that this was considered to be the most reliable small 22 auto made, even though it was inexpensive. A good deal, in other words.

And Swampsniper, I like both seagulls and down-to-earth opinions now and then, so that line about pie-in-the-sky and a seagull that just flew overhead was great!

[Rockstar]

Key word in this thead, "Jennings". Good luck, my friend, you're going to need it. If you submit to a psychiatric exam, you're sure to be committed, then you'll never be able to buy another firearm legally.

[Big Gay Al]

It's over, he's past that.

[joebogey]

You know, during this whole thread, I couldn't believe that not one poster happened to think that maybe the physc test was ordered not because he was carrying, but because he left home with a Jennings. :D

Just razzin ya man. Congratulations on gettin things worked out.

[DigMe]

Hey I know this is all resolved and everything but one thing you said earlier is that because you're 48 finding a new job is not feasible. Don't ever think that! I know lots of guys older than you (including me dad) who've gone out and found new jobs. In my father's case he wasn't fired from his old job, he just wanted to find another job that paid better and he did. He's done that a couple of times in the last few years and he's over 55.

If you ever get sick of your job don't hesitate to write up a resume and start scanning the classifieds for something more satisfying. In fact you should always keep an updated resume available. You never know...

brad cook

[Big Gay Al]

I got to agree with Digme on this one. I had a job that I was fired from last February, mostly because of my involvement with the Pink Pistols. And guess what...I'm not GAY!! Still, my homophobic boss, didn't care. I hope he'll care after my lawyer gets through with him and the company.

Anyway, I'm 48, almost 49, and I found another job 3 months later. Not the best in the world, but hey, it pays the bills, and my new boss doesn't care that I'm involved with the Pink Pistols. He knows the PP are pro-2A, and that's what matters to him.

I've known other people who started over at later ages than me too. So, to quote Tim Allen "Never Give up, Never Surrender!!"

[brian roberts]

do you work for the SBA (small business admin) or maybe the EPA???? i know you guys have really been having a tough time of it lately.

[MAUSER88]

Glad everything work out for the best. Use thus as a life lesson and move on.