[varoadking]

...what do you guys think about the new SiG?


http://sigforum.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=674608412&f=430601935&m=40360223&p=1


Edit - thanks for the help Sean...

[DougCxx]

Ummm.... --you seemed to have linked to another forum that requires registration for non-members. Was there suposed to be a picture there?
~

[Sean Smith]

Here is the pic.

[Sean Smith]

Blackened stainless version...

By the way, the gun has real Novak sights (not fake Novaks like on STIs and Baers), Novak's new magazines, no FLGR, and a big honkin' external extractor.

[Sean Smith]

Specs from SigARMS director of marketing:

Features and Specs

Here are the published features and specs for the Granite Series Rail (GSR) which should answer several questions. As for price, we are going into NASGW with our distributor price 99.9% set but before I give you an MSRP number I want to make sure I get it right. We should have that by the end of the week, Monday at the latest. Just talked to our head of sales out in Arizona and he is working on that final number right now. - PAUL ERHARDT

Feature & Benefits
• Machined and hand-fitted for maximum precision and tightest possible tolerances.
• Hand-lapped for outstanding frame-to-slide fit.
• Stainless steel construction and components ensure durability and flawless function.
• Crisp single-action trigger with firing pin safety.
• Picatinny rail accommodates a wide variety of accessories.
• 20-line per inch grooves on front strap and mainspring housing maximize control.
• Match-grade barrel.
• Uniquely designed recessed plunger tube provides rigidity and stability.
• External extractor provides greater longevity and consistency than standard GI extractors.
• Novak® sights.

GSR Specifications
Operation: Mechanically locked, recoil-operated, semi-automatic pistol
Trigger: Single-Action
Safety Features:
• Extended thumb safety
• Beavertail grip safety w/ speed bump
• Firing pin safety
• Hammer intercept notch
Caliber 45 AUTO
Length, overall 8.65”
Height, overall 5.50”
Width, overall 1.37”
Barrel length 5.00”
Rifling twist 1 in 15.75
Rifling grooves 6
Sight radius 6.50”
Weight, w/o magazine 39.2 oz.
Weight, empty magazine 2.4 oz.
Magazine capacity 8 rounds
All weights and dimensions are approximate. Specifications are subject to change without notice.

----------

The type of firing pin block isn't spelled out, but the gun isn't a Series 70 style. Interesting to note that they addressed the three most commonly perceived problems with the 1911:

- Traditional internal 1911 extractors require skilled installation and very good materials to function properly. Replaced with proprietary external design.

- Standard 1911 plunger tubes known to come loose from the factory and need to be re-staked. New plunger tube design incorporated.

- Factory 1911 magazines on production guns often crummy. Delivered with premium Novak magazines.

[HSMITH]

It looks nice. If it takes standard 1911 pattern parts it will be a success. If it takes other than standard parts it will be a dismal failure.

[RTFM]

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
My worst thoughts. Another flipping "ME TOO" 1911
I'll wait for the "Grand unavailing" Thursday at the Sigarms web site.

But man-o-man just what the shooting community needs ANOTHER 1911. Oh how original. :banghead:
*yawn*

Question:What's wrong with the P220?
Answer: NOTHING!

I love my Sig but I just don't see myself buying a 1911 Sig.
Heck that's why I went with Sig in the first place, I like what they had to offer to compete against the standard 1911.


RTFM

[Ky Larry]

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

[Sean Smith]

Honestly? I don't like how the Sig-ish slide and accessory rail look. But I also think that alot of people like the IDEA of the 1911, but not the crummy reputation (fair or not) the 1911 has picked up in relation to brands like Sig, Glock, HK and Beretta. Thus, even though I don't personally want one I think that there is a fair chance that this gun could absolutley MURDER the 1911 market... assuming it isn't priced in the stratosphere, that is. Colt is recovering, but has the stigma of the 1990s to live down. Kimber's declining QC, drastic MIM part failures, and its somewhat botched introduction of the Series II safety system have hurt its once-invincible position. SA has always been, fairly or not, the "Brazillian clone gun."

From a business point of view this could be a very smart decision.

[Aleko]

Looks good. Not great, but good. I'll have to see it in person to know whether or not I like it. I have been thinking about adding a 1911 with light rail to my collection, so depending on price, it may just be it...

[Cacique500]

Looks blocky with a lot of sharp edges. Guess I just got used to the slightly melted Kimber look.

[sm]

Not my type.
Prefer the old GI Issue.
Maybe carryin' cash and being patient more folks will get rid them old antiquated things to aquire the new stuff that has, and continues to come out.
I'll be looking, snooping and acting real dumb...with cash.

[Tamara]

Mentioned it to my 'smith today.

He said "If SIG can resist pricing it on the north side of $1,000, they may sell a few..."



Hmmm... Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Dan Wesson, Chuck Daly, Rock Island, Smith & Wesson, Wilson, Les Baer, STI, Valtro, and now SIG (did I forget anyone?)

Raises two thoughts:
1) When do we hit market saturation?
2) Maybe there might be something to this newfangled "1911" fad, after all, eh? Now that it's had a few decades to catch on? ;)

[10-Ring]

Since all these companies are making basically the same gun w/ basically the same parts it comes down to "who has the nicest logo," doesn't it? :scrutiny:

[chrisinmo]

This gun has been rumored for a while now. In someofthe previous threads the price of $1400-$1600 was bantered about. No solid facts though.

[Marko Kloos]

It does correct some of the acknowledged 1911 weak spots, but I'll hold my verdict until I see and hold one. One thing is for sure, though...for $900-ish, I'll think about buying one, but there's just no way that thing is worth the same dough as two P220STs.

[lee n. field]

"Ohhhhh . . . . Shiny!"

Hmmm... Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Dan Wesson, Chuck Daly, Rock Island, Smith & Wesson, Wilson, Les Baer, STI, Valtro, and now SIG (did I forget anyone?)

Who else could stand to do a 1911? Hmmm. Glock and Ruger? Baikal!!!

[mattjoe]

They should have made it a double stack and able to take their current high cap mags, that would be the only way it would interest me.

[natedog]

WOW! Where'd Sig Arms get the idea for THAT gun. It's so original and innovative :rolleyes:

[JNewell]

They should have made it a double stack and able to take their current high cap mags

But that would make it either

1. 9x19, .40 or .357 (with a P229/P228 grip) or

2. 9x19 (with a P226 grip).

The P220 is single stack, and I'm not sure they (or anyone else) could sell any significant number of those in any caliber except .45.

[Lone_Gunman]

Get one while you can, because they won't be in the catalog long!

This is going to fail. The recently introduced S&W 1911 is going to fail also. Neither will fail because they are bad guns though. They will fail because of bad timing.

The best thing that ever happened to the popularity of the 1911 was the AWB. When it expires next year, and the $20 high capacity magazine makes a return, the Wonder Nine/Forty craze will return as well, and I think the 1911 will see a decline in popularity.

A second problem is that the market is already kind of saturated, there are already too many people making 1911s.

[SnWnMe]

Looks sharp. I like the treatment of the forward part of the slide. Man, just when I have my mind set on getting a 945. This happens.

[Avery Goodschott]

SigForum has pictures up for registered members

Lots of features.

Unclear as to timing of availability and MSRP

[Tamara]

Y'know, the company that first brought the 1911 to market may be able to give SIG some advice about bein' late to the dance... :uhoh:

[10-Ring]

I'd guess sometime soon & at about a grand (give or take) ;) It looks like an interesting specimen...I'll certainly give it a look if/when they become available in CA

[Kaxter]

Undercut Trigger Guard, And Rails....The two things I hate in a 1911. Im definetly passing on this one. Ill stick with kimber.

[Link to photo removed - sigforum has asked that no copyrighted pictures be made available other than by them. -- Mal H]

[Mike Irwin]

Hey, what do you know...

ANOTHER 1911...

Be still my beating heart...

Sigh.

[Kaxter]

Sry, didnt know I couldnt post the pic.

I was FORCED to join the forum if I wanted to see the pics....and when I tried they wouldnt take my hotmail email address....so I had to make a new one, then I finally got to see the uninspired sig 1911...real cute.

I just wish they would have come out with something new, something fresh. Dont get me wrong, I love 1911s, but I think we can all say that there are plenty of makers.

[Amish]

I like the SIG slide and the rails. The rails on the GSR looks much better than Kimber's RL model. The slide cuts gives the gun a more modern look. If the price is right, which I doubt since it is a heavily hand fitted model, I might sell my Springfield and buy one in black.

[45R]

I'm all over this one!!! :)

[Kruzr]

If they posted pics on the internet, its public domain except for commercial purposes.

See this thread:

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=18788

[Andrew Wyatt]

it also has an external extractor.

*** is up with all these external extractor 1911s? Internal extractors Aren't that hard to make right.


indercut trigger guards on 1911s are a Good thing, IMHO.

[Bahadur]

What can SIG do new to the 1911 that others haven't done?

I'd like to see something different too - instead of the "me too" product several years late.

What about a .45 ACP version of SIG P210? Or a carry version of a SIG P210? Or a single-action version of a SIG P220 (or at least one that can be carried cocked & locked like H&K USP series)? Or what about bringing the SIG P225 back to the US (with new slides made in the US)?

[Tango Sierra]

>>If they posted pics on the internet, its public domain except for commercial purposes.<<


Kruzr,

Not so.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[Kruzr]

T.S. Its not cut and dry. From the site (good info) you noted,

Postings to the net are not granted to the public domain, and don't grant you any permission to do further copying except perhaps the sort of copying the poster might have expected in the ordinary flow of the net.

It would also have to be determined that posting the pics elsewhere don't constitute "fair use." A good issue for the lawyers to fight about.

Did they really think that they could post a picture of a new gun and it wouldn't hit all the forums? Who knows.......maybe they aren't familiar with how fast info travels these days. They certainly have the right to restrict the use of the pics but it seems a bit silly to post it two days early and threaten people who pass on the free advertising.

[VG]

I just wish they would have come out with something new, something fresh. Dont get me wrong, I love 1911s, but I think we can all say that there are plenty of makers.

Good idea - define what could be new and still be an M1911?

The manufacturers saw what happened to the Smith & Wesson 945. So don't expect to see any full-size single action .45 semis introduced to the marketplace that stray far from the M1911 pattern. For some practical reasons, like compatibility of magazines, grips, barrels etc., as well as because the M1911-style market seems to be boundless.

You can buy every single component of an M1911, from forged frames (S&W) up, so it would be more surprising if every manufacturer diesn't produce one. Ruger?

I'm surprised no one has commented on two trends:

- Some people in the military are grousing about the 9mm and want to go back to a .45.

- SIGARMS is a major supplier of firearms to Federal Agencies and the military.

[Lofland]

"Or a single-action version of a SIG P220 (or at least one that can be carried cocked & locked like H&K USP series)? "

Now THAT would have been a good idea! I would seriously consider buying one of those.

[Lightsped]

I am not feeling good about this new Sig. To me it reminds me of a Porsche SUV. Nice? Maybe (for only a SUV). A true Porsche? No, most defiantely not.

[Gary G23]

I wish I hadn't bought a Kimber last week.

[RTFM]

Nothing like being a follower instead of a leader.

Way to go Sig! Maby you can re-invent the fixed barrel too.
Go get a Bersa and start working on it now.
I'm sure your not too late to this dance for this idea either.

A Sig 1911 (to repeat my self) *yawn*

RTFM

[Tamara]

They already make the 232. :)

[Skunkabilly]

Why is everybody getting down on Sig for making a 1911? I wasn't around, but I bet the same things were said when Kimber and Springfield got into the market. "Colt does it already...yawwwwn"

More choices for the consumer = good. Maybe if Sig turns out flawless 1911s it'll force the leading US companies to take some of their energy from marketing and reallocate it to quality control, where more of it is needed.

I'm still leaning on a Kimber but I think this Sig 1911 is a Good Thing.

[Secmat]

Well, if it doesn't have a firing pin block fouling up the works, and is as reliable as their other pistols, then it's got a leg up over some of the other makers. The picture of the frame looked like it was sporting an integral plunger tube; that's a positive move. Although I don't carry a 1911 anymore, I still have that ingrained fascination with them. We'll see what the final product brings...

[Tamara]

Maybe if Sig turns out flawless 1911s it'll force the leading US companies to take some of their energy from marketing and reallocate it to quality control, where more of it is needed.

Because, dollars-to-donuts, that gun will be priced head to head with companies that grok "quality control" just fine, thank you, and might be able to teach the Jerries a thing or two about it. ;)

If SIG launches themselves head on into the $1,000-$1,500 price bracket, they'll have a tough row to hoe.

[MK11]

I might be interested in a Commander-size but I'm a lot more excited about Sig's new Glock-like trigger being adapted to the "Classic" series than I am about yet another 1911. A light, consistent trigger with Sig ergonomics? Yum-yum.

There's a comment on John Farnam's site that says Sig's big sellers to law enforcement are the P229 and P226 in .40 and .357 Sig but that the P220 has fallen off since anyone who wants a .45 seems to be going 1911 these days.

[Siggyboy]

I agree with Skunk and don't understand why any of you would gripe. This is going to be a high quality "modern" 1911 (I'm more of a traditonalist, but I don't knock quality). Sig knows that its reputation is based on guns where reliability is top priority. Sig guns work, and work well, period. There is a large market for 1911's, they sell like hotcakes and are on the cover of every handgun magazine. Right now the accessory rail is the big fad, hopefully Sig will come out with a non-rail version as well.

It looks like Sig is using the Caspian Recon frame, which is the same one that Wilson is using for its railed 1911 (see this month's American Handgunner). Also looks like Sig is using some Wilson parts. With quality componants, hand fitting, and options available, this is going to be a very nice and reliable 1911 out of the box, something the consumer can/should appreciate.

[Skunkabilly]

Cookie d'oh!!!

[Skunkabilly]

Tamara, wie sagt mann 'grok' auf Englisch? You're gonna have to teach me all these new words if I ever move to Tennessee; where I come from, 'grok' means cheap Austrian plastic :D

If prices are head to head, no big deal, the consumers will decide which is better. If Sig gets silly and makes it outrageous they aren't going to last long. OK they might (as HK does it) :D

Edited to add, I agree with Siggyboy although I are not one. (I like Sigs but not my cup of tea)

[Sean Smith]

Hard to argue against the potential of a 1911 clone with no MIM parts, an extractor that doesn't need to be "tuned," a plunger tube that won't work loose, and is delivered with quality magazines from the factory. They had the good sense to make it NOT look like everyone else's full-featured 1911. Maybe most important of all, it says "Sig" on the side of it, which in the minds of ALOT of consumers means reliability... something that the 1911 in general is NOT famous for in the minds of alot of folks (fairly or not).

I think it can get away with a price point of about $1,000. Much beyond that, and you are competing with Rock River Arms and basic Baer models. But $1,000 puts you against tarted up production guns like Kimbers and SA's, which the Sig can easily beat on and steal market from with their superior reputation. I have doubts that the Sig will really be any better than a STI Trojan 5.0, but STI is such a small player in terms of raw numbers sold that Sig probably didn't give the Trojan a second thought.

My guess? If the gun runs like a Sig and is under $1,000, the GSR will beat the living snot out of the higher-end factory market. Kimber will be hurt the most, and Colt the least. If they price it much above $1,000, it will wind up being a low-volume, limited production type product that will have little overall impact.

[SnWnMe]

Well, these things obviously sell enough to warrant Sig getting on the 1911 wagon too. I like it. Sig quality in a package that, even for a revolver guy like myself, will appeal to most. Sure it's not fresh or original but Smith and Glock do the same thing (big mousetrap, little mousetrap) Sides, I really can't see Sig making a cocked and locked P series gun. Where would they put the lever? On the frame? Then they have 1911 or a USP. I guess there are only so many ways you can make a pistol, without significant R&D expenditures. I hope they aim it dead square at Kimber and Smith's offerings. I also do hope that they work OTB.

[Big Mike]

I'm sure it'll be a seller but it looks absolutely FUGLY to me. I yearn for a Mil-Spec even more...Mike

[Don Gwinn]

I like it, but it'll be a long time before I spend much more money on handguns. I like the idea of a 1911 made the way SIGs are made (IOW, very, very well.) I actually LIKE the fact that the slide doesn't look like every other 1911 slide out there, and most of all, I like the fact that they took the time to address issues that more knowledgable shooters have warned me about regarding the 1911.

[George Hill]

There was a question about the images Sean Smith posted here. It seems that SIG has given those images out to a number of sources. SIG SAUER holds the copywrite and not another forum. A phone call to SIG SAUER (603-772-2302) confirms that SIG regardless of who posted the image where and why - holds the copywrite. SIG isn't concerned about these images, and neither should any discussion forums talking about SIG products in a manner conductive to the promotion of responsible firearms ownership.

So complaints about that can be put on hold, okay? Unless you can prove you are the photographer or that you hold the copywrite - Don't waste my time.
Pics over here too: http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=18788

Gimme a stinking break anyway, in a matter of hours they will be all over the place - as if they were not already.

Enjoy this thread, enjoy the gun, whatever you do... cool your jets.

[Obiwan]

I am not griping...but it seems interesting to me that Sig

1. Is coming out with a 1911

2. Is coming out with a "Glock-Like" trigger option (K-trigger)

(I am more interested in the K-trigger myself)

I applaud them for giving their customers what they want...but as Tamara said...

They are late to the party!
:scrutiny:

[Skunkabilly]

Obiwan,
I applaud them for giving their customers what they want...but as Tamara said...
They are late to the party!

I agree, but better than not showing up at all!

[Mute]

+ points for not having EVIL front serrations on the slide

- points for light rail and large roll marks

If they can do it with the same quality they deliver their other pistols, it should be interesting.

[RTFM]

Sorry Tam, tried to be too toung in cheek there.
:rolleyes:

-= Siggyboy =-
It looks like Sig is using the Caspian Recon frame, which is the same one that Wilson is using for its railed 1911 (see this month's American Handgunner). Also looks like Sig is using some Wilson parts. With quality componants, hand fitting, and options available, this is going to be a very nice and reliable 1911 out of the box, something the consumer can/should appreciate.

Honest question this time..:D
Does this mean that Sig is NOT producing all the components of the pistol?

[George Hill]

+ points for not having EVIL front serrations on the slide

- points for light rail and large roll marks


Exactly.

[RTFM]

On the side of the slid is GSR. I'm thinking the GS is Granite Series what do you think the R is?

Also as a side question, people say get "rid of the roll marks.."
ah.. what's a roll mark?:confused:

RTFM

[David Park]

OK, here's some additional reading between the lines:

1. SIG has announced the Granite Series, implying multiple pistols.
2. This pistol is called the GSR, where R means rail.

Presumably, if the GSR does well, a rail-less GS model will follow, just like the rail-less versions of the stainless P-series guns that are starting to appear here and there.

Personally, I just bought a P220ST for a lot less than $1000, and I couldn't be happier with it, so I don't have a burning desire for a third SIG in .45 cal. The all-black GSR sure is pretty, though.

BTW, I think it's interesting that the GSRs have external extractors, because P220s have internal extractors.


P.S. - Skunkabilly, read more Heinlein. :)

[Skunkabilly]

I like the concept but not my gun.

[George Hill]

The big roll mark... Smacks of Charles Daly. I don't like it.
I also don't like the "SIG-Like" line that runs along the side of the slide to make the 1911 more SIG-Like.
If you think that looks good - you must think the XD series is drop dead sexy.
Appearances aside, I'm sure it's a fine example of the what the 1911 can be in terms of quality.

I'm scratching my head wondering why SIG felt the need to do this. Sure, 1911s are popular, but there are so many on the market right now. Wouldn't SIG have done better service for themselves and the shooting fans of SIG guns, to have done a P220 like gun with an LDA to LEM type trigger? Maybe a SIG carbine or a SIG P220 Double Stack?
Sure S&W is getting a lot of press, but is it really making a lot of sales? I mean, how has this been a positive effect on S&W's bottom line? I'm just glad S&W is moving away from those ergonomic nightmare Gen 3 type guns...

I'm enjoying seeing the refinements to the 1911 form... the loaded chamber indicators, the external "tune-free" extractors, the beveled mag wells, and the better sights. It's a great design and I like seeing what people can do with it. I like old hotrods too. That's just me. But SIG making a 1911 is just odd to me.

Now, we need a 1911 from HK, over priced, and over rated with virtually no customer support...
I'd really like to see a 1911 from Beretta. I wonder how that would look.

[Siggyboy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-= Siggyboy =-
It looks like Sig is using the Caspian Recon frame, which is the same one that Wilson is using for its railed 1911 (see this month's American Handgunner). Also looks like Sig is using some Wilson parts. With quality componants, hand fitting, and options available, this is going to be a very nice and reliable 1911 out of the box, something the consumer can/should appreciate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Honest question this time..
Does this mean that Sig is NOT producing all the components of the pistol?


That's right, it looks that way. However, that is nothing new. As I mentioned, Wilson Combat is building some of their 1911's on the same Caspian frame that Sig is using. As a matter of fact, many high quality 1911 manufacturers do not produce all their parts. For a long time Wilson and Kimber were getting their slides and frames from S&W, and then did the final machining in house. Look at Springfield Armory's greatest 1911 (IMO), the TRP Professional. It is built using all different componant parts, the best of the best in a way: Nolin match barrel, Wilson thumb safety, S&A MSH/mag well, S&A beavertail, Novak sights, etc. The new S&W 1911 was similarly built with different componants such as a briley barrel, etc. The DW 1911's rely heavily on Chip McCormick parts.

From what I can gather by looking at the pics and discussing this with friends, the new SIG 1911 is built on some of the highest quality 1911 parts available. It seems to be built on a Caspian frame and slide with external extractor, has a Wilson thumb safety, Caspian beavertail, Novak sights and mag, Caspian trigger, and Greider slide stop. Still don't know where the barrel is from. May also be a Wilson hammer or perhaps EGW, and an EGW type fat bushing fit flush to the muzzle crown. Now add in hand fitting and you have an almost custom level 1911 with a bit of a new look. :cool:

[Greg Bell]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but this is a stupid move on Sig's part. Sig, like H&K and a few other manufacturers, has built its name on building high quality, distinctive designs. You may not care for DA/SA, but you know who makes them best. This is a lot like BMW building a Mustang. I think that Sig should quietly forget about this little tangent. If they must do a single action, do like someone here suggested and build a 220 stainless with a 1911 style safety lever. Hell, I'd probably buy that.


Why???:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

[Skunkabilly]

Now, we need a 1911 from HK, over priced, and over rated with virtually no customer support...
I'd really like to see a 1911 from Beretta. I wonder how that would look.


HK: Don't forget the proprietary magazines! It'll be called the Universal 1911 but nothing in the universe will be compatible with it :D

Beretta...I think an open top slide would be sweet but I heard the 92 series won't stand up to the pressure of the .45ACP :( (which is why the Cougar is so damn ugly)

[jmazz]

Why???

The cost for SIG to build this gun is probably much lower than a 220 since they are just buying premade parts, no large machines necessary. Then, on top of that, they get to sell them for more money than a 220. Sounds like a good way to make money.

[MoNsTeR]

Any word on what type of firing pin safety system it uses, ie: trigger-actuated vs. grip safety-actuated?

For my part, if it's not too expensive I'm TOTALLY getting one.

[WonderNine]

+ points for no MIM parts
- points for beavertail, ugly ring hammer and overall general fuglyness

[Al Thompson]

May be good to get one and salt it away. Remember the Colt Double Eagle?

[VG]

If SIG launches themselves head on into the $1,000-$1,500 price bracket, they'll have a tough row to hoe.

Doubt they'll bother. The production volume seems to be in the $700-900 range, and they have the manufacturing capacity and distribution to pull that off. It's also in the range of their P series pistols.

I wouldn't be surprised if this pistol was developed with the U.S. Military in mind.
On the S&W Forum, FWIW, it was stated that H&K will also be bidding on a USMC contract for M1911's, but there's no verification.

[jercamp45]

there is so much chat about 1911's being unreliable out of the box and needing tweaking.......
Sig, on the other hand, has a reputation for building very reliable and accurate guns...
Nevermind that they are putting together parts(most American made from the sound of it) for their 1911.
The popularity of the 1911 is still growing after all this time...reliable, thin, Thump that is very accurate is a well balanced concept.
And if the AWB sunsets...so what? Am I gonna run out and buy the latst super squirter to have more bullets? No way. I have only had 3 handguns that took more than ten rounds(CZ, P35, Taurus P-99)...they were interesting...but.....the bullets too small for my tastes.
Actually, My collection seems to center around the 1911 in .45, and after trying everything else, I think I'll stay there and start collecting other makers of the 1911. And if the Sig is priced right, I may get one.
I think Sig probably got on the 1911 bandwagon for apossible military contract. I too have heard alot of griping about the Italian Stallion Pop Gun currently in use. Might be a retro shift in the future!
As for ammo compatability with NATO and UN? Who cares...they are the ones sitting around with their thumbs tickleing their colon pushig vast amounts of hot air through rapidly flapping lips, and we are the ones fighting the fights that need fought. Popguns are fine, when you need to look pretty in a uniform on parade.....but for fighting, you need a fighting pistol(and rifle, for that matter). And that means the power to stop your assailant NOW! Not ten rounds later.
There are some machines that stand high above other's! Like it or not, the 1911 is and will always be one of those.
Jercamp45

[justdavid]

Lone_Gunman, I hope I'm wrong about this, but I see it as "if" the AWB expires, not "when"...

RTFM, the "R" is probably for "Rail," in line with the P220R, P226R, and P229R.


D.

[Mike Irwin]

Y

A

W

N

.

.

.

[Schuey2002]

A Sig 1911?? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif

[Tamara]

Sig, like H&K and a few other manufacturers, has built its name on building high quality, distinctive designs.

I have to admit to being a little confused by that.

Apparently, this is going to be a pretty durn high-quality gun. (No P-series SIG has the slide hand-lapped to the frame...)

What, exactly, is low-quality and undistinctive about this design? :confused:
More importantly to the corporate beancounters, when you see SWAT team after specops group after elite unit abandoning your guns and going to 1911 variants, what do you do about it? You can't just stand around and bemoan that these guys don't understand pistols, you gotta make a play for the contracts...

There was a certain air of desperation to SIG's "We threw a free, highly souped-up gun, a bunch of ammo, and three cubic yards of hundred dollar bills at Ernie Langdon and he just managed to squeak by Leatham at the Nats, while our guns aren't even showing up on the line elsewhere" ad campaign that made this kind of inevitable... :uhoh:

[gbelleh]

I'd like it a lot more if it didn't have the rail. At least it doesn't have front slide serrations!

[Black Snowman]

I'd only consider it if it's available in 10mm and cheap . . . wait, it's a SIG. cheap will never be in the equation. Never mind.

[VG]

Tamara, are you implying that SIG was struggling with the sales of their existing pistol lines? They've expanded their Exeter, NH plant so those pistols must be going somewhere.

What "SWAT team, specops group, or elite unit" that used SIG pistols previously has moved away from them?

If SIG or S&W can be faulted for building a derivative design, what about the companies that have never designed a pistol from scratch?

[buzz_knox]

"We threw a free, highly souped-up gun, a bunch of ammo, and three cubic yards of hundred dollar bills at Ernie Langdon and he just managed to squeak by Leatham at the Nats, while our guns aren't even showing up on the line elsewhere" ad campaign that made this kind of inevitable...

Flag on the play. Langdon's interest in using the 220ST came before becoming affiliated with SIG. The 220ST was bought using his own funds. Apparently, he wanted to show that a DA/SA could beat the 1911 crowd at their own game, and the 220ST, being a .45, allowed him entrance into the ESP/CDP world, which he couldn't do with his Beretta.

[Tamara]

Tamara, are you implying that SIG was struggling with the sales of their existing pistol lines? They've expanded their Exeter, NH plant so they must be going somewhere.

No, their commercial sales are proceeding just fine. Their LE sales, however, have been slumping since their early-'90s spike (and the barely-afloat SIGpro hasn't been the saviour it was planned to be), plus the fact that numerous high-profile specops/SWAT/et cetera contracts put out of late (FBI/MEUSOC/LAPD SWAT) have basically said "Don't bother showing up unless you're a 1911." If you think a corporate sales department isn't gonna pay attention to that (and the carryover civvie sales), well, then, you need to spend more time around outside salesfolk.

If SIG or S&W can be faulted for building a derivative design, what about the companies that have never designed a pistol from scratch?

I'm not "faulting" anybody for anything. I merely said that if SIG is going to try to muscle into the $1,000-$1,500 price bracket of 1911 clones, then they're going to have a tough row to hoe, as it's already crowded with high-quality makers of dead-nuts reliable, tack-driving accurate, immaculately finished guns.

I ain't trying to pick on anybody's favorite gun company, here. I know this is as emotional an issue as Ford V. BMW, and I'm no expert on SIGs (having only owned two 228's, a 229, two 226's, a 232 and a "Browning BDA"), but from my experience in the sales end of this business, they're trying to shove a thin wedge into a very dense chunk of market segment. I wish them luck, but I just don't see it happening...

[Tamara]

Flag on the play. Langdon's interest in using the 220ST came before becoming affiliated with SIG.

Let's go to instant replay.

You're saying that Langdon was totally unaffiliated with SIG during his drive to the CDP crown, or did he have SIG's backing? :uhoh:

[MaterDei]

Presumably, if the GSR does well, a rail-less GS model will follow, just like the rail-less versions of the stainless P-series guns that are starting to appear here and there. In that case I'd better buy the GSR so the GS, which I really want, will follow. Fine by me!
I know this is as emotional an issue as Ford V. BMW Here in the south the argument is between Fords and Chevys.

[Blackhawk]

Mike Irwin pretty much summed up my reaction.... yawn....

[buzz_knox]

You're saying that Langdon was totally unaffiliated with SIG during his drive to the CDP crown, or did he have SIG's backing?

According to Todd Green, a SIG employee:

"And yes, his P220ST is the old style with the compensator rails, not the Picatinny rails. Contrary to what folks seem to believe, Ernest was not "sponsored" by SIG and even bought his own gun from a gunshop just like anyone else with no involvement from SIG. He bought his P220ST right before the new style with Picatinny rails got into the distribution channel."

http://sigforum.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=674608412&f=9666031561&m=75260782&r=99660782#99660782

[trooper]

Hmm... I'm on the lookout for a range/carry gun anyway. But I definitely would want a German-made, and as for now they will only make them on your side of the pond :(


Regards,

Trooper

[asiparks]

I think they're going to leverage their reputation for accuracy and reliability to position it as the 1911 that works everytime. They'll submit it for, and quite likely win, some glamorous SWAT/ SEAL/ HRT contracts then sell it by the bucketload to civvies based on that.
I got a few 1911's now but always I'm on the lookout for one that'll give me any advantage, ( and can afford ). If it fits my hand well, and I can shoot it better than, for example my kimber, then it'll be bye bye kimber and hello Sig.
Even if it is arse ugly.

[Sean Smith]

There was a certain air of desperation to SIG's "We threw a free, highly souped-up gun, a bunch of ammo, and three cubic yards of hundred dollar bills at Ernie Langdon and he just managed to squeak by Leatham at the Nats, while our guns aren't even showing up on the line elsewhere" ad campaign that made this kind of inevitable...

Evidence...? :confused:

[Greg Bell]

"What, exactly, is low-quality and undistinctive about this design?"

Just another cobbled-up 1911 clone. Nothing even faintly distinctive about that. You can install Gold Bumpers on a Pinto and it is still just a Pinto.

[Stealthfixr]

Cast another vote in favor of the new Sig 1911!

If they can keep the cost reasonable and still set the new standard for quality & accuracy, then they'll have a best seller. I must be the only one who WANTED a 1911 with a rail, but I am smitten with the pictures of this gun, rail and all! I was about to buy another brand for my first 1911, and now I am just going to hold off until the prices are released.

[KMKeller]

There was a certain air of desperation to SIG's "We threw a free, highly souped-up gun, a bunch of ammo, and three cubic yards of hundred dollar bills at Ernie Langdon and he just managed to squeak by Leatham at the Nats, while our guns aren't even showing up on the line elsewhere" ad campaign that made this kind of inevitable...

Calling a foul on this one.

Ernies gun had the following done to it:

Competition Trigger Job
Competition mag catch
Novak Rear Sight
fiber optic front sight
Magwell
Carry bevel and re-bead blast

That doesn't strike me as "highly souped-up" and is probably substantially short of the custom parts and mods chucked in Leatham's pistol. And how many times did Leatham "just squeak by" the competition?

[New_comer]

Does it have a drop safety?

[Larry Ashcraft]

Well, since I already have a couple of Colts, and I don't care for the Kimber or SA, and can't bring myself to look at a new S&W; I'll definately look at these. Two 1911's ain't enough. :D
'grok'
Tamara's obviously a Heinlein fan. ;)

[Correia]

I wouldn't say Langdon squeeked past Leatham at the nationals. At the level that those guys perform at .4 of a second can be the difference between winning a stage and fifth place. By definition pretty much any win at the national level is a squeek. :)

Fact of the matter is, Langdon is one of the best shooters alive. Leatham is perhaps the best shooter who has ever lived. Debating the merits of their respective guns is kind of silly.

A gun company could throw cubic yards of money at me and give me a souped up gun, and I don't think I would come close to getting me to that level. And I'm a competitive fanatic. :p

Just trying to put things into perspective.

[Archer]

1. It is a testimony to the timelessness of the design that a mainstream firm like SIG has made this item.

2. No front cocking serrations- hurrah.

3. George said: SIG making a 1911 is just odd to me. Now, we need a 1911 from HK, over priced, and over rated with virtually no customer support...


Be careful what you wish for there George, I first heard about this SIG 1911 at Gunsite in September, and the same source told me HK has one in the works too. :scrutiny:

[justdavid]

quote:What "SWAT team, specops group, or elite unit" that used SIG pistols previously has moved away from them?

Ye Olde Internet Rumor Mill (tm) has it that the SEALs are considering moving away from the 226 for a .45, and goes on to say that they don't regard the 220 nearly as highly. Time will tell if there's any truth to this. Take this with a medium-sized salt lick, not just a grain of NaCl.


D.

[jacketch]

10mm?

[tex_n_cal]

Pluses:

I like the Novak sights, grooved frontstrap, slide scallops. Likely well machined. Oh yeah, I like the grip safety they copied from the Colt XS models:evil:

Minuses/ho hum:

External extractors are cheaper to make than internals, not better.

The light rail would be an amusing place to mount a bayonet. :D Since SA's with light rails jam (two out of two I've seen), and since 1 out of 5 Mimbers break, a Sig seems to be a good way to get a light rail on a reliable 1911.

If both Sig and Glock are now making 1911's, I think we can safely admit that the design ain't so "obsolete" any more.

[JohnK]

Mildly interesting, but other than the accessory rail it looks like just another 1911. I don't expect it to shoot any better or worse than any other $1000 1911's you can go out and buy.

[Nightcrawler]

Oh wowzers, somebody ELSE is making a 1911 clone. I think I'll rush to the bank! :rolleyes:

Yeesh. I understand WHY Sig is doing this, mind you, I just think it's silly. I'd like to see more diversity in our handgun selection, not everybody making the same gun.

[Black Majik]

I like it, maybe get one later on down the road... certainly not anytime soon though.


But I do agree w/ others, just another 1911. But at least this looks a lot better than the S&W 1911. That piece is jus' horrific after I felt it. Fit and Finish wasn't very impressive, the parts felt cheap, and the gun did not fit well in my hand. Blah.. :barf:

[Bahadur]

Ye Olde Internet Rumor Mill (tm) has it that the SEALs are considering moving away from the 226 for a .45, and goes on to say that they don't regard the 220 nearly as highly. Time will tell if there's any truth to this. Take this with a medium-sized salt lick, not just a grain of NaCl.What's wrong with the H&K USP? Plain vanilla USP in .45ACP should fit the bill just fine.

[Lightsped]

Yeesh. I understand WHY Sig is doing this, mind you, I just think it's silly. I'd like to see more diversity in our handgun selection, not everybody making the same gun.

I agree 100%. I guess it is only a matter of time before Glock brings out a 1911..... :/

[VG]

Yeesh. I understand WHY Sig is doing this, mind you, I just think it's silly. I'd like to see more diversity in our handgun selection, not everybody making the same gun.

Yet they see what everyone else sees:

"I'm going to buy a .45 for CCW. Should I buy a Kimber ABC, or a Springfield Armory DCE? The magazines for the more accurate, reliable, lighter and and less expensive SIG P220 cost too much."

In a day and age of copy-cat reality tv shows, movie sequels, and a world where Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, Lincoln, and Porsche offer SUV's, what else could we expect?

[Nightcrawler]

In a day and age of copy-cat reality tv shows, movie sequels, and a world where Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, Lincoln, and Porsche offer SUV's, what else could we expect?

Exactly. I didn't say I was suprised. :o

[DMK]

Ho hum... yawn. I'll get excited about it later. Like maybe if it ever becomes actually affordable. :rolleyes:

[Neal Bloom]

As a fan of SIG's this new 1911 really doesn't excite me. Must admit that if the price is right SIG might sell a bunch. I was hoping that they would have announced something more innovative. Unless a reliable 1911 out of the box is their contribution to innovation!;)

I think I'll keep my P220.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

I voted, "It's O.K. but I most likely won't be buying one"!:D

You see, I'm still on a prolonged honey-moon with MY
.45 caliber West German SIG-SAUER P220A. :)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[varoadking]

...and since I started this thread, I have to tell you that I hated this thing at first sight. But, now that I have had more time to study it, I like it even less...

[9x19]

Seems there may be another company looking for a cash-cow to keep them afloat in spite of declining sales of their primary line... :rolleyes:

1911 fans will often pay more for their favored pistols, even though CNC machining and MIM parts makes them no more expensive to produce than many of the more modern designs. :uhoh:

For me it has no more appeal than those S&W or DW heifers... YMMV :D

[varoadking]

Just an ugly (really ugly) soon-to-be-overpriced parts gun. I'm underwhelmed. :barf:

I'm guessing SiG will announce an MSRP of $1,250.00 or so.

That ought to bring an abrupt stop to the love-fest going on at the SiG Forum. Hell, they're all acting like Beretta people... :p

[Tamara]

Y'all are right; SIGs massive advertising campaing lauding Langdon's once-in-a-lifetime win proves the total superiority of the 220 to the 1911. I'll be sure and trade all mine in on SIGs tomorrow... ;) :D

[Tamara]

You can install Gold Bumpers on a Pinto and it is still just a Pinto.

Which would be the Pinto, the hand-built all-tool-steel gun, or the stamped sheetmetal one? :confused:

:p

[Siggyboy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeesh. I understand WHY Sig is doing this, mind you, I just think it's silly. I'd like to see more diversity in our handgun selection, not everybody making the same gun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well, the squeeze cocker's already been invented...whaddya want, a laser blaster?

:D

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'm going to buy a .45 for CCW. Should I buy a Kimber ABC, or a Springfield Armory DCE? The magazines for the more accurate, reliable, lighter and and less expensive SIG P220 cost too much

I'm calling you out on the more accurate and reliable part of that.

1911's are way easier to hit with, given the notable lack of a heavy trigger.

[Parker Dean]

Put me down in the "OK, but not buying" camp.

The SIG just doesn't work for me. I'm not into light rails, already have a stainless 1911. The things I'm looking for now, like a good bluing job, just aren't what SIG was after.

[Skunkabilly]

Y'all are right; SIGs massive advertising campaing lauding Langdon's once-in-a-lifetime win proves the total superiority of the 220 to the 1911. I'll be sure and trade all mine in on SIGs tomorrow...



Tamara, don't forget the Beretta 92G Elite II :D

[BluesBear]

Kudos to Sig for putting a few SIG looking touches to it.

I don't personally like rails but this is the best looking setup I have seen so far. But then beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder.

Sure it'll sell. It will sell to those who don't care for new Colts. And those who think S&W "sold out" or who think Kimbers break too often, or who don't like Springfields because they are made in Brazil, or don't like Dan Wessons or who can't afford a Valtro or.......

Enough people know the SIG name and will give it a try.
Some will buy it because it's the new kid on the block.

SIG owners who love the guns they have now, might by one because it IS a SIG.

The bottom line is that more and more people are buying their FIRT 1911 style gun and now they have another choice.
But let's hope SIG doesn't have a recall in the first 6 months.

Competition is good for the marketplace.
Selection is good for the consumer.

Remember somewhere out there someone is actually DREAMING of owning a Pinto with Gold Bumpers.

[Ian11]

Hey! I'm proud of my Pinto!! My 9mm stamp steel P226 is the sweetest shooting piece of junk I've ever had the pleaure to own.:D

If only I could put a bumper sticker on it that says "My other gun is an all steel P220ST"

And for my P220ST "1911 Killa":neener:

[Ian11]

I'm a dyed in the wool SIG fan. And like Ala Dan my P220ST won't let me look at any another .45 pistol. Even if its a SIG. If I were to get another .45 ACP pistol I'd want another P220ST. ;)

I saw the pictures and reviews over at SIGforum.com I'm sure they did a great job (as they usually do) in bringing about a top quality product. But its a pass even if I were to buy a 1911 again. Colt's have always been very good to me.

[KMKeller]

Oh, jayzus, I've been caught engaging in reductio ad absurdum...

What'd you call me?:eek:



SIGs massive advertising campaing lauding Langdon's once-in-a-lifetime win proves the total superiority of the 220 to the 1911. I'll be sure and trade all mine in on SIGs tomorrow

Finally! Call me tomorrow and I'll show you the secret Sig handshake. :D

On a more serious note, I have yet to see any opinion here from our local Sig-o-phyte. Where o' where is that Bessemer Alabama Man?

[MaterDei]

I guess it is only a matter of time before Glock brings out a 1911..... :/ Finally, a Glock I might actually buy. :D

[VG]

Seems there may be another company looking for a cash-cow to keep them afloat in spite of declining sales of their primary line...

Sir, they expanded their Exeter NH manufacturing facility last year by 50,000 sf. They've stopped selling the P228 to civilians because of agency orders. So with this evidence to the contrary, what can you point to that indicates a decline in sales? Sigarms Academy was busy as h@ll when I was ther last Fall.

[Hal]

what do you think the R is?

Just a guess, but -

rip-off? :D

RE: Prices - tough call. A quick look at the success of theTrailside kinda skews things. I mean , really, in a market dominated by sub $400 quality .22's, the Trailside did pretty darn well for itself (and continues to) by going above the $400 mark.

If I had to guess, I'd say ~ 14-16 hundred range.

[Sean Smith]

Oh, jayzus, I've been caught engaging in reductio ad absurdum...

Nope, just avoiding the issue of your rather extravagant claims about Sig's support for Ernie. ;)

[buzz_knox]

Y'all are right; SIGs massive advertising campaing lauding Langdon's once-in-a-lifetime win proves the total superiority of the 220 to the 1911. I'll be sure and trade all mine in on SIGs tomorrow...

Once in a lifetime or first in a string? May I ask, what did Langdon or SIG do to you to warrant such disdain for both? I know you've become a die hard cocked and locked fan but diminishing Langdon's accomplishments and disparaging SIG isn't justified.

[Obiwan]

The 220 has not proved to be super durable for groups that train hard and expend a large amount of ammo.

And the SEALS are looking at a .45 to replace their 226's

Lot of other group are going back to the .45 as well

So...maybe......

Sig just wants to sell more pistols:D

And it seems like they could get into the 1911 game with less investment than a totally new design.

[KMKeller]

Thank heavens that Springfield Armory doesn't engage in opportunistic marketing and hasn't launched a formal ad campaign with Leatham's participation...

Oh wait! http://www.springfield-armory.com/TGO.shtml

:D

[buzz_knox]

Thank heavens that Springfield Armory doesn't engage in opportunistic marketing and hasn't launched a formal ad campaign with Leatham's participation...

Forget Springfield. It's just a johnny come lately. I mean, Colt was making 1911s for decades before Springfield even came into existence. Talk about lack of innovation. ;)

[Tamara]

Sigh.

KMKeller is halfway to what I was trying to get at.

Yes, SIG's marketing department is hyping Langdon heavily right now, and making as much hay as they can from his win. Just like Springfield and Leatham, just like Glock and Sevigny. That's what marketing departments do, fer heaven's sake.

I'm just a little amused by some folks who'd never believe that their Chevy Monte Carlo could lap Daytona at a zillion miles per hour just like their favorite NASCAR driver's does, yet are ready to engrave "1911 Killer" or whatever on the slide of their 220ST. Similarly, owning one of the new limited edition Springfields will in no way make someone shoot like "The Great One", even if it does say "TGO" right on the gun, any more than owning a pair of Nikes would help one "Be like Mike".

While I was at SHOT, I had the opportunity to meet Dave Sevigny. He found the ads touting "Glock Wins!" to be a kinda amusing, because he reckoned that, well, maybe Dave had a little bit to do with it. ;) (FWIW, SIG is definitely giving Ernie more credit in their ads than Glock gave Dave. To read the Glock ads, you'd have thunk the pistol shot itself. :uhoh: )

[Marko Kloos]

To read the Glock ads, you'd have thunk the pistol shot itself.

They just follow the precedent set by the D.C.P.D.'s "Unintentional Discharge of a Duty Weapon" forms. :D

[OF]

1911's we have. A single-action 220 in 10mm, we don't.

- Gabe

[KMKeller]

Tam,

I talked to Ernest after his win and he detailed the mods to his Sig. I asked about a trigger job for my competition Sigs (P220 and P226) He gave me a pricelist of what it would take to make my 220 just like his competition gun. I remarked on the missing line item... skill.

He appreciated the humor. :D

Kirk

[buzz_knox]

Kirk, could you e-mail the price list to me? I'm thinking of having him do a bit of work on a couple of my SIGs.

As for a single action 220 in any caliber, I don't think I'd be interested. I accept the high bore axis of the SIG because it has other design features that I like and that outweigh the axis issue. If you redesign it to function like a 1911, I'd rather have the lower bore axis as well.

[Kharn]

The back half of the pistol is fine, but what in the heck is up with the harsh curve of the slide where the dust cover ends?

Maybe in time I could learn to love it (especially if I got a freebie), but at this time I think its a little too different from a 1911A1 for my tastes.

Kharn

[KMKeller]

Check your email Buzz.

[SouthpawShootr]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I hate rails! Otherwise, it's ok.

[MaterDei]

Forget Springfield. It's just a johnny come lately. I mean, Colt was making 1911s for decades before Springfield even came into existence. Talk about lack of innovation. :what: Maybe I'm just not noticing the tongue thats firmly resting in your cheek. Springfield started in 1794.

[buzz_knox]

Maybe I'm just not noticing the tongue thats firmly resting in your cheek. Springfield started in 1794.

You apparently missed the wink. ;) But, technically, although Springfield Armory began in 1794, it no longer exists as a manufacturer, having been closed in 1968. Springfield Inc. was started in the '70s (?) and originally used the same name.

[Ian11]

Tamara,

I think you know I was just joking. I'm not about to engrave "1911 Killa" on the slide. And my P226 is no Pinto. What's wrong with stamp steel for a handgun? Some of the finest submachine guns, assault rifles, and heavy machine guns use stamp steel. Anways, I think most of us agree, with professional guys like these its not the shoes, the golf clubs, or the particular car they race. They would cease to be human competitions if it wasn't about the individual.

What's interesting to me is why SIG's annoucement of a new 1911 should bring so many protests from various people? And what spurred on the broad attacks on SIG pistols in general as well?

[KMKeller]

Envy and fear Ian, envy and fear...:D :neener:

[Sean Smith]

So Tam, did Ernie get a free gun and "three cubic yards of hundred dollar bills" from Sig or not?

:evil:

[Andrew Wyatt]

so all i have to do to get a new sig and 3 cubic yards of hundred dollar bills is beat rob letham?

[buzz_knox]

Sean, make that a " highly souped-up gun" that allowed him to "just manage[] to squeak by Leatham " by for his "once-in-a-lifetime" win.

:p

[Ian11]

I think "Cool, SIG's coming out with a 1911 too." would have sufficed. And if the gun turns out to be a bomb its a bomb. It isn't even out yet. Whether its a 1911, SIG, H&K, Beretta, or Glock there's something worthy about its design and quality that fulfills a particular need or demand. Over the years I've gotten pretty particular about what kind of gun I like to own or shoot but I am still pretty much FOR all good guns in general. :D

[George Hill]

Hey guys, I merged the two Granite related threads... Hope you don't mind.

[Andrew Wyatt]

the fact that sig's making a 1911 gives me more ammunition in the "my sig can beat up your 1911" flame wars.

[Dr.Rob]

Accessory rails look like lego bloks... can't see that in a IWB. Gotta be made for the LE/tacticool market.

Can't say I see a reason to buy it over a NIB Colt.

[justdavid]

What's wrong with the H&K USP? Plain vanilla USP in .45ACP should fit the bill just fine.

Bahadur, my almost-totally-uninformed guess is that if they do leave the P226, it'll be for a .45 USP or one of its siblings (the Tactical, maybe)? I base this guess on having read on tacticalforums that, while in the past they carried S&W 686s when swimming through stuff they knew/thought would give the P226s trouble (heavy silt being mentioned), more and more they've been swimming the HK SOCOM .45 in such situations.


D.

[Archer]

What's wrong with the H&K USP? Plain vanilla USP in .45ACP should fit the bill just fine.

I have two USP compacts and several 1911s. I carry a 1911.

Whats wrong with the USP ? Nothing much, until you compare it to a good 1911.

USP Malo:
NOT very IWB friendly.
Trigger. Sucks. Badly. Even a poor 1911 has a better trigger. Yes the match USP trigger is better but still creeps a ton.

Bueno:
uber reliable.
Decent sights.
Fits me. I have size xxl hands though.
Superior ease in maintenance. No tools required.

My USPs are no more or less reliable than my Springfield Professional and cost a lot less. However the SA Pro is one heck of a lot more carry-friendly. Hence the USPs are my backup pieces and range beaters.

HKs rumored 1911 should be very interesting.

[JohnBT]

I like it.

But I'm having back surgery in the a.m. and have been taking oxycodone for the past month. :)

Is there room on the rail for a bipod and a light?

John

[Gabe]

If Sig design it to shoot 45Super straight out of the box that would be something we haven't seen before.

[Sean Smith]

Not true, the Sprinfield V-16 and STI Xcaliber already did that. :D

[Bladeandbarrel]

Anyone who question's Ernest's shooting ability obviously hasn't shot with him or seen him shoot. It is clear to me that his win at the IDPA nationals was not a fluke. After all, it wasn't his first National championship, last time it was shooting a Beretta.

I agree that Rob Leatham is probably the best practical pistol shot of all time. I also know that Ernest Langdon is one of the best. After all, Rob Leatham was the first person to get a $1,000,000 dollar contract in the Industry from his shooting sponsor, Springfield Armory. That is probably somewhere close to the fabled "three cubic yards" of hundreds y'all are thinking of.

[varoadking]

Yup, and a tactical sling and hand grip too...

[Obiwan]

Supposedly, parts are not interchangeable with other 1911 platforms.

[Wildalaska]

Looks like a S&W 1911 to me......

WildontlikethoseAlaska

[care-less]

Nice looking pistol. If it turns out to be a "good" 1911, and not just another 1911; Sig should sell a bunch of them. That is if they can keep the price at $600 or less.

[Frohickey]

Big woopy-dooo.

Another 1911.
Another 1911 with a firing pin safety.
Another 1911 with a firing pin safety that was not designed in by JMB.
Another 1911 with an accessory rail.
Another 1911 with tighter tolerances.

In the meantime, Sig owners and shooters have been hankering for a 10mm pistol, but do we get that? Noooooooooooooooooooo.

I, for one, would not be getting one. And I like Sigs. P220, P220Sport, P245, P239, P226, P228, P229.

[varoadking]

:what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what:

[DerRottweiler]

I have no use for it as it has a Firing Pin Safety!!:fire:

[Gabe]

It's likely 600 times 2.

I think the gun will sell well, plenty LE departments and SOCOM units use Sigs. When their guns wear out they'll consider new toys from their favorite vendor.

If this thing becomes "Official SEAL 1911" everyone will be singing Sig praises.

[Tamara]

If this thing becomes "Official SEAL 1911" everyone will be singing Sig praises.

Really?

I couldn't care less if it became the official sidearm of the Jedi Knights; I'll reserve my final decision until I've had my chance to do a personal T&E on a couple. ;)

[Gabe]

I couldn't care less if it became the official sidearm of the Jedi Knights

You know, "Jedi Knights" was the nickname for erstwhile members of SEAL Team 6. I recall they favored 357 revolvers. ;)

But of course you're right, military pistol requirements do not meet my requirements at all. I know If I were to carry a M4 carbine fulltime with a pistol as secondary weapon; my preferance would be very different.

Still there's few better sales gimmick than being blessed by frogmen.

[Nightcrawler]

You know, I've never understood people running out and buying guns just because they kind of look like something our Army uses. *shrug* To each his own, I suppose.

[Gewehr98]

But I'm getting a giggle while reading the Granite Series thread over on SigForum. The Sigaholics, while bad-mouthing every other version of the 1911, and proclaiming how they absolutely hate the 1911's form and function, are piddling themselves over the innovative new 1911 clone as introduced by Sig.

Makes me wanna just dump my Caspians at a discount in the For Sale listings here, and go out and buy that Sig 1911. Not. :scrutiny:

[Bahadur]

You know, "Jedi Knights" was the nickname for erstwhile members of SEAL Team 6. I recall they favored 357 revolvers.Graduates of the Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS) are also known as the "Jedi Knights."

Remember it's not just the swordplay - it's the "force" too. Mind over matter and all that...

[VG]

But I'm getting a giggle while reading the Granite Series thread over on SigForum. The Sigaholics, while bad-mouthing every other version of the 1911, and proclaiming how they absolutely hate the 1911's form and function, are piddling themselves over the innovative new 1911 clone as introduced by Sig.

What thread are you reading? In general I've found the Sigforum to be one of the most knowledgable, courteous groups on the web, on the subject of SIGs or the many other firearms that some of them own.

Many of them also post here, as this is another exceptionally knowledgable and courteous forum for the most part. And are mature enough to understand that reasonable men may disagree, without resort to puerile name calling.

[Gewehr98]

Was that an individual's email and IP address they posted for the whole world to see? And they were chomping at the bit to go further with that one, as if posting an image of the new 1911 was gonna stay a secret very long on the WWW. :scrutiny:

[VG]

Sir, if you'd care to point to which of the threads you are referring to (some of which are 20+ pages) I'd be happy to opine.

Some of the threads were looked so that you had to log in to look at them prior to the official announcement, but that is no longer the case. Personally I thought it was pretty cool for SIG to give SIG owners and enthusiasts (many of whom own M1911's) a first look.

[BlkHawk73]

I have to say again that we've got too many 1911 makers out there although if there were mechanical improvements in the design people would cry it wasn't a real 1911. Do I like the Sig 1911? kinda but no more/less than other high-end models. (I could do w/o the rail though-ugly) Will it make a wave in the 1911 market? have to wait and see. I don't think a noted company would introduce what would be a non-beneifcial move financialy. The Sig freaks will buy one and the "tactical" 1911 freaks will too. Other than that why?

Also, what's shelf price expected to be on this thing?

[coop57]

I have one SIG a 229 in 9mm and it is a great gun. Frankly SIG has priced themselves out of my league. I'd rather spend the $ on shooting the guns I already have.

[Greg Bell]

"I couldn't care less if it became the official sidearm of the Jedi Knights; I'll reserve my final decision until I've had my chance to do a personal T&E on a couple."


I could not agree more. That is why I laugh when people say they will only consider Glocks because "that's what all the cops carry." Cops carry Glocks for their own reasons, the Seals carry Sigs for their own reasons, I carry a P7 for better reasons.:evil:


Greg Bell

[45auto]

I think it's good to have as many manufacturers offer 1911's as possible.

It promotes innovation, quality and pricing competition. Hopefully, you get more for less. A buyer, I believe, gets a much better(quality) 1911 today with more features than 10-15 years ago. If Colt was the dominate leader today, similiar to years ago before Kimber, just imagine what they would be producing now... quality wise! It wouldn't be pretty.

Does anyone want the current dominant Kimber to represent the future of 1911's?

IMO, the more the merrier.

[cslinger]

I guess I should weigh in being one of the boards SIG folks.

I like it because I like SIGs and I just sort of like the idea of having a SIG 1911, kind of a melding of my favorite manufacturer and one of the most comfortable pistols ever made.

That being said, I am not quite sure why SIG didn't go in a direction more distinct but I suspect that it has a lot to do with the failure of the SIGPRO and the fact that, as mentioned, many high profile LEO and Military units seem to be embracing the ole' 1911 again.

It's not my first choice for a new SIG design but for me personally it will be sort of cool to own a SIG 1911. I would have to play with one and make sure it doesn't suck but I suspect that it will be one of the more reliable, if not pricy, 1911s out of the box. My guess is it will be right up there with the lower end Baers, high end Springers and Wilsons. I doubt it will be up there with the Ed Browns or true customs. SIG generally has a reputation of producing firearms that work period.

As for price, those who think it will be $600 or less are living in a dream world. I figure more along the lines of $1400 or so, which unfortunitely, puts it in competition with some of the finer 1911 platforms and that is going to be a tough market to break into especially when you are known for your DOUBLE ACTION guns.

Like I said I want one, assuming they work, because I am a SIG nut and I really like the feel of a 1911 and it will probably be less money than my first choice of an Ed Brown Kobra.

Realistically SIG has a tough road to hoe with this pistol. Lots of stiff competition in the price range they are most likely going to be competing in. A little part of me wonders if some agency or military unit didn't come to SIG and say we want to stick with SIGs because of experience with X Y or Z gun but we want to move over to the 1911 platform. Obviously they are producing this gun in anticipation of making some decent returns so they must have something up their sleeve.

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it. So sign me up for a SIG 1911. I have a nice traditional blued Colt and I am ready for a nice tricked out accessory rail having, high speed low drag, uber tactical, but the Girl Scouts use them 1911 and having the SIG name on it would be kind of cool to me and you know why.........cuz I have all my working guns and I am a marketing SUCKER. :D but at least I know it.

Chris

[Old Fuff]

cslinger:

Depending on how SIG makes this pistol, meaning do they tool the whole thing or buy some, if not most component parts from others, could make a big difference in what it retails for. I have a feeling that they may try for an under-$1,000.00 price point. I notice that it isn’t loaded down with superfluous cosmetics and gadgets. If they do indeed come close to that figure the market prospects would be a lot better.

[Chris Rhines]

You know, I'd really like to see some new R&D, new innovations, new design improvements in the handgun field. Not carbon-copy remakes of 90-year-old designs.

- Chris

[Sean Smith]

Sir, if you'd care to point to which of the threads you are referring to (some of which are 20+ pages) I'd be happy to opine.

Let's see if I can dig it up.. basically, they threatened to "nuke" somebody's IP and e-mail, and posted them in public (presumably so the rest of the forum could attack them, too) because the person leaked the pictures... which Sigarms (who is the real owner of the copyrights on those pics) doesn't CARE about being distributed.

Here it is:

http://sigforum.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=674608412&f=430601935&m=40360223&p=7

The Sig forum has NO RIGHTS in regards to those pictures, but folks from that forum have gone around threatening folks with e-mail/IP attack over the pictures anyway. :rolleyes:

[BlkHawk73]

You know, I've never understood people running out and buying guns just because they kind of look like something our Army uses. *shrug* To each his own, I suppose.

Me either. I remember in school (law enforcement) alot of students had to have Glock 9's and Beretta 92's 'cause that's what cops and the military uses.:banghead: had a difficult time explaining to them that MAJOR point in choosing sidearms in depts/services is the cost. Money talks. It's unlikely that a dept that uses Sigs now will switch to a more expensive model (Sig1911). :rolleyes: Perhaps some of the Spec units teams may but that's a whole diff/ budget.

[BluesBear]

edited to remove post that showed up on wrong thread.

Dang blasted cheap POS wireless mouse.:fire:

[B27]

Sean-
The two pictures of the guns themselves, which are now at www.sigarms.com , are owned by Sigarms.
The pictures of our member DaveNH being given a preview of and shooting the GSR are in fact owned by SIGforum.

[yayarx7]

I would buy it if I could afford it

[Sean Smith]

B27,

Um, OK, but it was the pictures of the guns (you know, the ones Sigarms owns...) that everyone from the Sig forum was screaming for blood over. They were the only pics I saw here & on other forums that got yanked because of empty threats from the Sig forum folks. :rolleyes:

Not to turn this into an inter-forum pissing contest, just stating what I actually saw happen here (temporarily, until Sigarms got called, and Sig forum folks got called on their bluff) and elswhere. The pics of DaveNH just holding the gun and scratching himself, or whatever, weren't exactly spreading like wildfire. ;)

But nice job defending intellectual property that wasn't yours, and that the owner didn't mind having distributed! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif

[Tamara]

You know, I'd really like to see some new R&D, new innovations, new design improvements in the handgun field. Not carbon-copy remakes of 90-year-old designs.

Me too. But what I'd like to see are real improvements, and not change for change's sake. If a mousetrap that is truly better in D, V, and C shows up, I'm all over it. ;)

[45auto]

I think you would have to detail what "real" improvements are for a gun style like a 1911.

We have all read about the extractor, so they went external.

The plunger tubes can come loose, which they(Sig) implies they took care of.

Other things we read about are poor materials and poor fitting.
Again, if they use good "stuff" and fit it well, I'm not sure what else consumers would want that they could do? Besides sell it for real cheap. :D

But, I also agree they could make some improvements and take it out of the 1911 buying group(maybe) and see what happens. Much riskier business than a "cash cow" 1911 in the $900+ range.

[Andrew Wyatt]

We have all read about the extractor, so they went external. External extractors are cheaper to make, not better. When the do break, they cannot be fixed in the field like the standard internal one can

[Mil Novecientos Once]

SepcOps units are buying and looking for 1911s, Sig just want a contract like everybody else.

[valnar]

It was funny with S&W came out with a 1911, but SIG? :what:
What's next? A Kahr 1911? :rolleyes:


I like my 1911, but I also like my SIG P220 in .45ACP. Looks aside, if it ever came down to a gun I needed to grab for a major gunfight, I'd take the P220 hands down. I just know it will go bang when I pull the trigger.

It's funny. When people talk about SIG's, they usually comment on how expensive they are. But if you take a good P220 vs a quality non-Mil-spec 1911, the SIG is cheaper.


-Robert

[MaterDei]

A Glock 1911!!!!!!!!!

Has there been an official MSRP yet?

[jacketch]

Doesn't Kahr make AutoOrdinance 1911's?

[Sean Smith]

Yeah, but that's only because they bought AO... doesn't really count.

[Quintin Likely]

I'd buy one just for the hell of it. I don't spend very much time rationalizing purchases; I think it'd be neat to have a Sig 1911. Make mine without the rail though. Bonus points if this thing takes off and they build a Commander's size model.

-Quintin

[slatts56]

I Have One And Love It .i Have Had Almost Ever 1911 Out There. And This Is The 1.ten Ring At 25yds 50,100yds,.price Is 1077.00.got Mine For 850 New. Dont Knock It To You Try It Slatts56 :) :) :)

[GaryP]

I like the P220 SIG in .45acp, but I prefer my 1911's to be COLTS so I passed on this one! ;)


:evil: