Alliant Green Dot


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Ret.CWO
October 27, 2009, 03:36 PM
I came into several pounds of Alliant green dot. I know this powder is used for shotgun shell loading. I don't load Shot Shells. Does anyone know if this could be used in mild pistol loads. I use Unique and Red Dot in 38's and 357. The Green dot is very closely related to these powders. Hate to just dispose of it as it's new and unopened.

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Dynamite Rabbit
October 27, 2009, 03:45 PM
Speer #11 lists some Green Dot loads for .357, but nothing for .38.

Examples:
125 JHP or JSP 8.0 gr start, 8.5 gr max
158 JHP or JSP 7.0 start, 7.5 max

NCsmitty
October 27, 2009, 03:47 PM
Alliant shows loads for 44 Rem magnum(light loads), 45 Colt and 45ACP as well as being a good powder in 28 and 20Ga shotshells. You should be able to sell it locally, I would think, should you want to part with some of it.


NCsmitty

Ret.CWO
October 27, 2009, 03:56 PM
Thanks guy's now I know were to investigate.

rbernie
October 27, 2009, 04:02 PM
I've used a lot of Green Dot for 9mm and 45ACP cast bullet loads. It's economical (my standard loads were about a grain less with Green Dot than with Unique), accurate enough, and fairly clean.

It's roughly between WW231 and AA#5 in burn rate, according to most charts.

NCsmitty
October 27, 2009, 04:14 PM
Reloadersnest lists 1 load for the 38 special.

www.reloadersnest.com/detail_handgun.asp?CaliberID=10&Powder=Alliant+Green+Dot&LoadID=632

I would start at 3.5gr Green Dot.
4.0 gr charge is showing as a +P load in my Ammoguide, with that bullet weight.


NCsmitty

rbernie
October 27, 2009, 04:18 PM
http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38%20Special&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=Alliant

MovedWest
October 27, 2009, 05:21 PM
I've had good luck with green dot in 44 magnum plinking loads. Consistent velocities and easy recoil. I've heard different things concerning accuracy, but it seems pretty accurate to me.

-MW

SlamFire1
October 27, 2009, 05:22 PM
I purchased some estate sale Green Dot, had to figure out what to do with it. So I decided to load up a bunch of 125 grain bullets for my S&W Airweights.

My Airweights shoot to point of aim with 125 grain bullets.

I think I settled on a load of 4.5 grs Green Dot as that load gave the least leading.

It was very accurate. I did not have any issues. I believe Green Dot will work well in the 38 Special.

The 158 grain load with 3.5 grains Bullseye is my "reference" load. I will shoot that over the screens, and if the numbers are off, then I know something is out of alignment.


S&W M637-2 2" barrel

158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F
Ave Vel =679
Std Dev =16.48
ES 56.11
High 698.2
Low 642
N = 18



125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 9-Apr-06 T = 59 F
Ave Vel = 760.4
Std Dev = 27.33
ES 82.1
High 798.9
Low 716.8
N = 19
More or less Point of aim Surprising recoil


125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F

Ave Vel = 813.2
Std Dev = 44.55
ES 176.5
High 903.3
Low 726.8
N = 24

POI, little leading

125 Lead BBRNFP 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F

Ave Vel = 867.3
Std Dev = 57.54
ES 178.1
High 966
Low 787.8
N = 21
1-2" above POI, more leading

125 JHP (W/W) 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F

Ave Vel = 760.4
Std Dev = 68
ES 56
High 205.1
Low 885.4
N = 13
very accurate

125 JHP (W/W) 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500
6-Apr-07 T = 48 F

Ave Vel = 808.9
Std Dev = 56.82
ES 95.46
High 914.2
Low 712.8
N = 20
25 yds accuracy OK,


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/ReducedM638AirweightMarkingsDSCN493.jpg

Steve C
October 27, 2009, 10:33 PM
Data from earlier Alliant Powder on line loading manual.

bluetopper
October 27, 2009, 10:37 PM
Green Dot is one of the most versatile handgun powders available.

Ret.CWO
October 28, 2009, 10:53 AM
Thank's never used it. I have on hand Red Dot & Unique. Now have five pounds of Green Dot. I'll be giving it a try.

SlamFire1
March 1, 2010, 08:16 PM
I decided to update this thread with 45ACP data.

I was able to conduct chronograph tests this weekend. It was warm enough that the Chrony Chronograph functioned. My Chrono will not operate in temperatures in the 30s, or lower 40s. Must be due to cold effecting the battery voltage.

I have a cardboard container of older, estate sale, Green Dot. I assume it is late 70s to early 80s. It is old enough that the shiny tinned metal bottom has a small number of rust spots from the powder. The powder does not smell, I dont see any red, but I want to shoot it up as soon as possible. It is at the end of its shelf life.

Green Dot works well in the 45 ACP. My M1911s functioned every time on the 700 fps 4.5 grain load. That load had very little recoil and yet clustered well. I judge the accuracy of the ammo by the clustering on my 25 yard gong target. Since I shoot offhand my accuracy is highly variable compared to someone shooting off sandbags. I can say that Green Dot has accuracy potential as it clustered well, but I cannot say that it is any more accurate than any other powder.

Green Dot must be just a little slower burning than Bullseye as 5.0 grains of Green Dot gave me the same velocities as 4.5 grains Bullseye. Green Dot is still a fast burning powder.

I fired my loads in two different M1911s and I was glad to learn that the velocities were similar between the pistols.

Some people are ultra fussy about clean burning powders. I am not. I cannot say Green Dot is a clean powder as the wind was whipping through around 15 mph. Any residue in the air was gone before I could see it. My M1911s cleaned up as usual, but I have must have a higher tolerance about residue than the clean crowd as I am not bothered cleaning up after using Bullseye or Unique.

I like my practice ammo to be just around 800 fps, or less, so I am loading up several hundred more rounds with the 5.0 grains Green Dot.

I am not looking to replace any of my favorite pistols powders of Bullseye, Unique and 2400 with Green Dot. I am also not looking to add more Green Dot to the collection. But I wont turn down Green Dot if I get it at a great price as it shoots well in the 38 Special and 45 ACP.

Kimber Custom Classic

230 gr LRN 4.5 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
16-May-09 high 83 F OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel =805.2
Std Dev =38.07
ES = 136.9
High = 912.4
Low = 775.5
N = 24

230 LRN 4.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =708 fps
Std Dev =12
ES = 40
High = 727
Low = 687
N = 9
accurate, little high, mild recoil

230 LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =802fps
Std Dev =19
ES = 61
High = 841
Low = 780
N = 15

230 LRN 5.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =873 fps
Std Dev =30
ES = 88
High = 922
Low = 834
N = 11

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/KimberRightSideDSCN0753.jpg

M1911 Springfield Armory 5 Kart Barrel


230 LRN 4.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =719 fps
Std Dev =26
ES = 105.1
High = 771
Low = 665.9
N = 14
accurate, little high, mild recoil

230 LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =803 fps
Std Dev =25
ES = 97
High = 867
Low = 770
N = 16
Accurate, centered

230 LRN 5.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010 T = 48 F

Ave Vel =853 fps
Std Dev =29
ES = 116
High = 918
Low = 802
N = 15 very accurate, centered

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/M1911SArightsidefulllength.jpg

bds
March 1, 2010, 10:46 PM
It's roughly between WW231 and AA#5 in burn rate, according to most charts.

Winchester burn rate chart is showing Green Dot to be faster than W231/HP38.
Still, many have said Green Dot burns close enough to be a decent W231/HP38 at a much lower price too (about $35-40/8 lbs).

http://www.wwpowder.com/burn-rate.html

6 Alliant - Red Dot
8 IMR - Hi-Skor 700-X
9 Alliant - Bullseye
10 Hodgdon - TITEGROUP
13 Alliant - Green Dot
20 Accurate - No. 2
22 Hodgdon - HP38
23 Winchester - 231
25 Alliant - Unique
27 Alliant - Power Pistol
34 Accurate - No. 5

deadeyedog270
March 2, 2010, 09:11 AM
I use Geen Dot for my 38spl rounds
125 gr jacketed bullet with 4.0 gr of greenDot

148 gr Wad Cutter with 2.7 gr of greenDot

ArchAngelCD
March 3, 2010, 04:42 AM
SlamFire1,
Thanks for the update and range data...

bds
March 3, 2010, 04:49 AM
SlamFire1,
Thanks for the update and range data...

For the 45ACP, powder charge looks similar to W231/HP38 (I use 5.0-5.5gr 1.25" OAL for 230gr bullet).

Someone in another thread posted they use Green Dot as close substitute for W231/HP38. How clean burning is Green Dot compared to W231/HP38?

ArchAngelCD
March 3, 2010, 05:17 AM
Someone in another thread posted they use Green Dot as close substitute for W231/HP38. How clean burning is Green Dot compared to W231/HP38?
In addition, Ramshot Zip is almost a clone for W231. Zip is probably the closest powder you will find that mimics W231.

bds
March 3, 2010, 10:47 AM
I never shot Ramshot powders.

Ramshot Zip is also a double based, modified (flattened) spherical powder with virtually the same burn rate. How does it meter? Is it similar in size to W231?

Walkalong
March 3, 2010, 11:01 AM
Can you tell the difference just looking at it? I can't. Dang similar, aren't they. Same size, same look, same two shades.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=116841&stc=1&d=1267628469
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=116842&stc=1&d=1267628469

bds
March 3, 2010, 11:04 AM
Thanks for the pictures Walkalong.

Yup, they seem close enough for me.

Walkalong
March 3, 2010, 11:21 AM
This target pic (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=50297&d=1167697005) was from an early test with Zip. Velocity was right at 600+(Start load-Berrys 230 RN), but except where I choked on the 5th shot, it was accurate. (7 yards through the chrono)

I got sidetracked after that and have not followed up, but it stuck in my memory banks for sure.

SlamFire1
March 3, 2010, 03:56 PM
I have shot lots of W231, none of Zip. Someone else will have to test this, but it is entirely possible that W231 is the same as Zip. As W231 is the same as HP38.


Same powder, different bottles. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last time.

Walkalong
March 3, 2010, 04:29 PM
The Zip I have is denser by a bit than the W-231 I have, but that could be lot to lot differences, plus the W-231 I have is in 3 Lb metal cans. Quite a bit older than the Zip I have.

bluetopper
March 3, 2010, 04:33 PM
I "think" a lot of Ramshot powders are the same as some Accurate Arms powders. I'm nearly 100% sure Ramshot Enforcer is the same as AA4100.
Ramshot does have the coolest names though.


Also different burn rate charts are sooo different a lot of the time. I take them with a grain of salt.

Walkalong
March 3, 2010, 04:38 PM
Ramshot's Silhouette powder is a reincarnation of Winchesters discontinued WAP powder. Same thing, different name.

straitnate14
March 3, 2010, 10:38 PM
green dot is great in 45ACP, I load 5.1 gr of it with a 230 gr lead bullet with great results, it's a little smoky but it doesnt help I'm loading lead

bds
March 3, 2010, 10:46 PM
Reason for my interest in Green Dot is because often W231/HP38 are not readily available due to their popularity.

If Green Dot/Ramshot Zip is comparable in performance (especially if costs less), then would be a good backup powder for those looking for W231/HP38.

You learn something new everyday. :D

ArchAngelCD
March 4, 2010, 05:06 AM
I have shot lots of W231, none of Zip. Someone else will have to test this, but it is entirely possible that W231 is the same as Zip. As W231 is the same as HP38.


Same powder, different bottles. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last time.
The current W231, HP-38 and Zip are all being made at the same plant.

Hmmm, let me see, 3 different powders with different labels which look exactly alike, have the same burn rate and are made at the same plant. Could they actually be the same powder?? :D

There are a lot of powders out there which are the same but are under different labels. Years ago we didn't know HS-6=W540 and HS-7=W571 but it's true just like H414=W760... (and W231=HP-38 that we already mentioned)

SlamFire1
March 4, 2010, 10:27 AM
There are a lot of powders out there which are the same but are under different labels. Years ago we didn't know HS-6=W540 and HS-7=W571 but it's true just like H414=W760... (and W231=HP-38 that we already mentioned)


I find it humorous to look at old reloading articles where Gunwriters praise one powder and dump on the other. And it turns out, they are the same powder but in different bottles.

I have a 45ACP article by Ken Warner. He "gives up on W231", but says HP-38is outstanding in light loads.

Huh?

bds
March 4, 2010, 11:33 AM
This is interesting.

We already know W231 and HP38 are the same "exact" powder being put into different bottles.

I am not sure if Ramshot Zip is the same "exact" powder, but according to burn rate chart, comes close enough to be a direct replacement powder in my eyes. I found Zip costs comparable to W231 but more than HP38.

As to OP Green Dot, the burn rate chart shows it to be a bit faster burning powder than W231/HP38 but slower than Bullseye. The load data charts show it to take very similar charges to W231/HP38. And Green Dot costs about $35-$40 less than W231/HP38 for 8 lb jug.

I currently have Bullseye, W231 and HP38 in 8 lb jugs. If a new reloader wanted to load for short barreled compact/subcompacts (2"-4") and full size (4.5"-5") pistols but wanted only one powder, Green Dot would be a great cost effective option.

mgkdrgn
March 4, 2010, 09:56 PM
I load shotgun, 9mm, 45 Colt ... all with greendot. There are loads and loads of pistol recipes for green dot. Not the -ideal- pistol powder, a bit of a pain to meter, but it will make bullets that go BANG.

orionengnr
March 4, 2010, 10:16 PM
I was offered 14 lbs of Green Dot around Christmas time. After doing some research, I jumped on it.

Five grains under a 200 gr SWC works great for .45acp; I have already used a pound of it. :)
I also have loads for .45LC and plinking loads for .41 Mag and .357 Mag.
I am very satisfied with Green Dot.

If any of you have empty 1-lb plastic Green Dot containers, please contact me. I have 4-lb and 8-lb (cardboard) containers that I really do not want to open until I can break them down into humidity-proof plastic containers. I will pay for your 1-lb plastic containers.

orionengnr at yahoo dot com

ArchAngelCD
March 5, 2010, 03:42 AM
If I were offered a large amount (or even small amount) of Green Dot I wouldn't hesitate to accept it! I use so much W231/HP-38 it would easily fit right in with the calibers I load.

cptkeybrd
March 10, 2010, 02:59 AM
interesting I just ran into this thread, I just had some green dot I wanted to use up probably 15 years old, found a 1987 hercules reload data that called for 4.5 green dot with a 158 LSWC 38 special so I loaded it up, 50 rounds. I will get back here when I shoot it.
It said 960 fps and within pressure.

armarsh
March 12, 2010, 11:10 PM
Green dot also works really nice in smaller pistol cartridges such as 380 and 9mm Mak.

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