[viking499]

Noticed a little rust on the inside of my muzzleloader barrel. It hasn't been there very long. What do you guys recommend to fix the problem? Been keeping it "bore buttered" up, do I need to use something else?

The gun is a TC Triumph blued barrel synthetic.

[arcticap]

We would all be smarter if we coated our guns with eezox before storing them away. :)

Notice that the description for Eezox Gun Care includes black powder guns.

http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html

EEZOX® weighs 10.42 pounds per gallon - squirt or spray EEZOX® into a container of water and it will sink to the bottom. This density prevents water from penetrating the thin layer of EEZOX® and from reacting with the metal to form rust. Because of the hydrocarbon oil content of other products, they will "float" on water. Therefore, water penetrates this oil layer and rests on the metal surface. The water then reacts with oxygen and the metal surface to form rust.

Our research clearly shows over 75% of gun owners are not satisfied with gun care products presently being used. Compare this to the 98.7% of EEZOX® users who are greatly satisfied.

http://www.eezox.info/truth.html


3. PROTECTING: The American Standard for Tests and Measurements, (ASTM} is the internationally recognized testing authority and the ASTM B117 - 5% Salt Spray Fog Test is the de facto standard for testing a product's rust inhibiting properties. Outdoor elements, including extremes of temperature and humidity are introduced into the test environment and are carefully monitored. Petroleum Distillate Rust Preventatives receive a "Pass" rating if they inhibit rust for 18 to 24 hours. After 96 to 120 hours of testing, Synthetic EEZOX scored an "Excellent," the highest rating given. Even more remarkable, after 136 hours Synthetic EEZOX scored a "Good" rating, outperforming all distillate-based gun oils and other rust inhibitors available. This testing confirms that EEZOX provides the best rust protection.

[Hawkeye748]

Bore butter is not a rust preventative. It is intended for use as a bullet lube or patch lube. Others will tell you different, but I use a good gun oil such as RemOil. To remove it before shooting, I dry patch and then fire 2-3 caps to burn off any remaining oil. Also, Breakfree is very good also.

To remove the rust, Hoppe's No. 9 with a wire brush followed by oil if it is not very significant. If bad, use Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner. Follow directions and make sure you follow with a good oil.

[BHP FAN]

What Hawkeye said.I discovered rust in the bore of my Hawken,and I only use that stuff for cylinder pin grease,and a [great!] ingredient in my ''grease cookies'',anymore.

[madcratebuilder]

I'm with arcticap on the EEZOX. I have been using it on all my center fire guns for some time and have started using it on my black powder guns. The Ballistol is now used for cleaning solution and making grease cookies.

I first used EEZOX on my S&W revolvers, these guns run about 95% so there are a few bare or thin spots in the bluing. The first time I wiped them down with EEZOX using a clean patch I would get just a touch of rust on the patch. This is from a gun I thought was clean and well oiled. After the first EEZOX cleaning no more traces of rust during the monthly wipe down.

[sundance44s]

When you clean your barrel after shooting ...use very hot water when cleaning ..the hotter the water the faster it will dry .
I use WD40 on my oil patch before I store the gun . it will take care of the moisture .
The products others have listed and use work well also ..........but who doesn`t have a can of WD40 around .

[dogrunner]

Hawkeye is dead on regarding BB. I tried the stuff as recommended in the 'seasoning' method TC touts..........absolute BS as I wound up with a slightly pitted spot in a very high dollar Hawken reproduction........I use the stuff as a bullet lube only. I clean w/water and follow a very hot rinse & dry with CLP and a good oil.

Till I tried TC's suggestion I had a perfect barrel & never any issues..............since I went back to my method I again have had no issues!

[Hawkeye748]

Be careful with WD 40. It is not for long term storage. It will evaporate and leave the metal unprotected. For short term use, it is okay, but any longer than 2 weeks you are running a risk of having rust occur.

It is actually very good to use for a temporary oil to displace fouling if you are not able to do a full cleaning immediately. It's water displacing properties will get under the fouling and temporarily protect the metal. Don't wait too long to clean the gun fully though.

[whosyrdaddy]

Here is the link to an interesting experiment where Ballistol clearly out performed EEzox.


http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html


Simply click on the pictures of samples B and Z to enlarge them further.

[Hawkeye748]

Murphy's Oil Soap solution has never been touted as a rust preventative or treatment. It is simply a inexpensive cleaner for BP shooters. It is very good for removing BP residue from guns and wood. I use it and it is great for cleaning. I follow the cleaning with gun oil or Break Free. If it is raining or high humidity, I use nothing but the BF. It seems to do better than anything else I have tried for those conditions.

Ballistol is okay but I CANNOT stand the smell. IT is awful!

[madcratebuilder]

Here is the link to an interesting experiment where Ballistol clearly out performed EEzox.


http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html


Simply click on the pictures of samples B and Z to enlarge them further.
I've seen that test, it would be meaningful if you stored your fire arms under those conditions. A real world test would be much more helpful.

[whosyrdaddy]

I've seen that test, it would be meaningful if you stored your fire arms under those conditions. A real world test would be much more helpful.
Outstanding! I can't wait to see your results. Please take lots of high resolution pics for us. Thanks again for volunteering.

[Gatofeo]

I don't like WD-40. After a time, it becomes a thick, gummy varnish that can slow or freeze moving parts.
Years ago, my brother had a Colt .38 revolver stolen from his Memphis, Tenn., home.
The police recovered it in Shreveport, La., and promptly hosed it down with WD-40. I applaud them for making an effort to conserve the pistol until it was returned to its owner.
Alas, it took many months to get it back. When my brother received it, the pistol looked fine but the action couldn't be cycled.
I removed the sideplate and the interior was a thick, gummy mess of congealed WD-40.
I avoid petroleum products in the bore of my black powder arms. I use olive oil, instead. But then, I live in the Utah desert where humidity is typically very low. Those who live in humid environments may be forced to use petroleum products to keep their guns from rusting.

As for rust removal from a bore, I swear by Iosso Bore Cleaner, which has the consistency of toothpaste and comes in a tube. It will remove rust from bore when you think you've got it all.
Iosso Bore Cleaner is often difficult to find but worth the search. I've found nothing better. Work it into a patch that's a tight fit in the bore and work it back and forth; you'll be amazed at the rust it removes that you couldn't see lurking. Also very good for removing leading from bores.

I clean my blackpowder guns with hot, soapy water, dry thoroughly and then -- if possible -- dry the parts in the oven at its lowest setting (about 150 degrees F) on a cookie sheet with the oven door ajar to allow moisture to escape.
My .50-caliber CVA Hawken barrel can be dried by placing the breech end at the back of the oven and resting the forward portion on the edge of the oven door. This drives moisture up the bore and out.
I put a coat of olive oil in the bore while it's still warm and stand muzzle down in a can to allow excess oil to escape. This keeps my barrel rust-free for years.

[viking499]

Never heard of olive oil being used.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Olive Oyle? :p
I just used it on my Jack Russle Terror. He had dry skin, and was scratching himself away to a bloody shadow. The vet Rx'ed him a bunch of drugs that really messed him up....doped out really. Special food too. Didn't help.
I cured him with a rub down in Olive Oil. Just a spoon full.
I know....hijacked again!
I'm going to follow up and try olive oil on one of my spare gun barrels....I'm curious now. :scrutiny:
I usually patch with Hoppes #9 after the standard hot soapy water scrub, with boiling tea kettle rinse and air dry. Gun oil on the action parts.
Olive oil you say?

[TomADC]

Everything I've read says olive oil breaks down in storage..
But it does help the dogs coat..

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Unless you plan on NOT shooting them for over a year (can't speak for over an 18 month time period) coat a patch with Cabela's Muzzle Loading Lube and run it up and down the inside of the barrel a few times. Problem solved. For extended periods of time use a patch saturated with Super Lubricant..PS If you use the Muzzle Loading Lube do not coat it too heavily. Just a very light shiny coating inside of the barrel is all you want....

[sourdough44]

I would try the combo of Kroil & JB bore cleaner in your M-L barrel. Alternate each & follow directions. There are 2 basic steps to M-L care, cleaning & then PROTECTING. After you clean with whatever product you need to do a light coat of gun oil or whatever inside & out. Also the stock should come off after being out in a wet season. I also leave the breech plug out & give it a pass-thru at times with an oil patch. The next time you shoot, 1 week or 1 year later, dry everything well & load up.

[Loyalist Dave]

When you clean your barrel after shooting ...use very hot water when cleaning ..the hotter the water the faster it will dry .

The rust forms faster, and in fact if you use very hot water you can watch the rust form. Accelerated drying = accelerated rusting.

I use WD40 on my oil patch before I store the gun . it will take care of the moisture . The products others have listed and use work well also ..........but who doesn`t have a can of WD40 around .

I don't. The previous post is correct, the stuff will shellac and gum up stuff something fierce. So will 3-n-1 oil. I clean with water or soap and water (cold water), then dry, and apply my own gun grease of beeswax and olive oil. If I am putting them up for a long time, I will check the bore for two days following cleaning and greasing..., clean rag swab and reapply grease...after that they may be left alone. I applied this grease to an armory bright lock and barrel that dew formed on overnight..., wiped off the dew and the grease and no rust. The guy who didn't apply grease to his similar gun..., had orange rust covering both lock and barrel.

LD

[SHIPCHIEF]

I do notice some 'rust color' on the patch right after cleaning and a boiling water rinse. I always dry patch, first, then with Hoppes #9, while the barrel is still too hot to touch.
Is there a better way? The barrel must be cleaned, and for that brief moment it is clean bare steel exposed to water, then air (oxygen) before the preserving oil and solvent can be applied.
How can you get it clean, then preserved before it's dried? :banghead:

[Hawkeye748]

ShipChief,

Give up on the water. In the old days, soap and water was the best way to clean BP guns. They also "seasoned" the bores to protect them like your grandma seasoned her cast iron skillet, pots, etc to cook in. Now, we have better methods of protecting barrels.

Where you live, as where I live, the humidity defeats you. To keep rust out or from forming in your bore, clean with Hoppe's No. 9 or any other type of good petroleum based gun cleaner. Then follow with the quality gun oil, not WD-40. EEZOX is also good.

While on the range, I clean with the Murphy's oil solution for field cleaning. I also use it at the end of the day until I get home and do a complete clean job with Hoppes No. 9 and finish with RemOil. As I said earlier, WD 40 will get between the fouling and the metal for short term, but long term, it evaporates and leaves a mess behind that will allow the salts in the fouling to work on the metal.

Good luck.

[mykeal]

That is positively the worst advice I've ever seen anyone give on a black powder forum.

Absolutely, under no circumstances, use a petroleum based oil or cleaner on a black powder gun UNLESS you thoroughly and completely remove all traces of the petroleum products before you shoot the gun.

Black powder combustion temperatures are too low to completely burn petroleum based oils and cleaners. The resulting partial combustion will form a tar like substance that is difficult to remove. This problem is worse with real black powders than with substitute propellants due to the higher ignition and combustion temperatures of the latter products. However, even the substitutes do not fully burn petroleum products.

One caveat to the above are the high distillates known as mineral oil based lubricants and cleaners. These products do combust fully in the black powder environment.

[PRM]

mykeal - you have definitely rode the river and give sound advice.

"That is positively the worst advice I've ever seen anyone give on a black powder forum." mykeal


I am somewhat perplexed at times, trying to figure out where you stand on an issue.

Got about 3 months left in Afghanistan - boy, have I missed my black powder. You guys take care.

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes there has been some confusion over the years about Hoppe's #9. Some folks think it is a rust preventative..., it is a solvent only. Some folks think it is for black powder, as it worked well for dad/grandpa in the days of BP shotshells and cordite. Yes it worked great for breech loading shotguns when they first came out with plastic wads. The heat of BP or Cordite melted the early plastic wads, and made a mess in the bore that was tough to clean.., very tough. Hoppe's came alone with benzine in it, and the benzine dissolved the plastic residue in one pass of the bore. It was miraculous, but when they found out years later how good benzine is for causing lung cancer, it was removed from the formula, but the quality of the plastic in the shotshell wads had improved by then, better smokeless powders had been formulated, and BP had stopped being used in shells, so nobody really noticed.

LD

[arcticap]

I do notice some 'rust color' on the patch right after cleaning and a boiling water rinse. I always dry patch, first, then with Hoppes #9, while the barrel is still too hot to touch.
Is there a better way? The barrel must be cleaned, and for that brief moment it is clean bare steel exposed to water, then air (oxygen) before the preserving oil and solvent can be applied.
How can you get it clean, then preserved before it's dried?

There have been a lot of reports over the years about flash rusting being associated with the use of very hot water for cleaning. Not everyone who uses hot water has a problem with flash rusting, but more often than not those who do have a problem are using hot water.
When cold water is used instead of hot water, the flash rusting problem is often cured. Maybe hot water simply accelerates the flash rusting process due to the conditions present within some barrels. I'm not sure. But switching to cold water is certainly worth a try and has worked for many others. :)

[Hawkeye748]

Mykeal,

I have been using my method for over 18 years and have experienced none of what you describe. After bringing a gun out, before loading, I run dry patches throught the bore and then fire 2-5 caps to burn out the oil in the chamber area. I shoot several thousand rounds a year. If this were a problem, I believe it would have manifested itself by now.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.

[txapacheguy]

I tried to avoid using petroleum lubricants on my first Pietta BP pistol I purchased about six months ago, but was unable to keep it from rusting after the first cleaning. I was advised by a local shooter to use a mixture containing equal parts of rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and Murphy's oil soap. That mixture cleans the weapon very well, but rust begins forming on every surface of the weapon that has had the bluing(sp) nicked or scratched... I have since started coating my pistols with a moderate coat of conventional gun oil after cleaning and have suffered no ill effect on the range when shooting. I typically wipe my guns down before shooting to remove the oil, and have not always fired caps on the empty cylinders first... After two or three cylinders, I usually wipe the cylinder and action area with a cloth that is damp with liquid black powder solvent to remove the powder residue before it makes further firing difficult. While this may not be a purist's way of doing business, it is the only way I have found to prevent the accumulation of corrosion on my BP pistols. Perhaps someday, I will encounter someone around here (near my home, and not online) who can show me how to do things the "right" way, but until then I am going to continue oiling my pistols so they are not rusted out by the time I learn more of the elusive secrets of this fascinating hobby...

[PRM]

I have been shooting black powder for well into 3 decades now - Things have gotten simpler for me over the years. I still clean up with hot tap water for the most part. However, one product I have been using for about 14 years is Gibbs Brand Lubricant and Cleaner http://www.gibbsbrand.net/.

One product does both - cleans and lubes. Usually, when I am through cleaning (hot water), I dry the weapon good, spray it all generously with Gibbs and wipe it down, run some patches through the barrel and cylinder. The stuff works great - I have not had a problem with rust or residue on any weapon I have used it on. For modern weapons because of the carrier in the lubricant - actions do not become sluggish in cold weather. This is the only product the agency I work for uses on their range. Great company too. Check out their web site and testimonials.

[mykeal]

I run dry patches throught the bore and then fire 2-5 caps to burn out the oil in the chamber area.
Do you think it would have been appropriate to mention that in your first post?

You mitigate the fouling caused by incomplete combustion by removing the majority of the petroleum based oils before shooting the gun. That's a significant action that should have been disclosed. If a new bp shooter had taken your original, incomplete advice they'd have a mess on their hands by now.