an end run around existing law?


October 28, 2009, 12:39 PM
If the following has been previously posted, pardon me. I've been "off line" for a while. By the way, as I understand things, exisiting federal law precludes the creation of any nationwide system of gun registration as the BATFE might try to foist off. The "etrace" routine discussed in the following JPFO alert, and the accompanying links appears to be the above mentioned "end run" around existing restrictions over BATFE actions. Judge for yourselves, and act as you think appropriate, perhaps contacting your elected things. JPFO alert follows below.

America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

October 27th 2009


Our Monday alert --
-- about the Hillary Clinton State Department being deliriously
happy about your gun ownership records being provided to thousands
of police agencies and foreign governments, solicited this response
from a retired police detective about the eTrace registration
scheme. Please read about his hands on experiences and pass them on
to every gun owner in America. Simply put, eTrace is being used to
create a national firearms registry. It must be stopped.--

Remember, an opportunity is available to save 50% on frames that
you can machine to make a receiver to create your own gun without
the usual requirements when buying a firearm. We encourage you to
visit the KT Ordnance site to learn more -

This alert, on JPFO -

The Liberty Crew
Protecting you by creating solutions to destroy "gun control"

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October 30, 2009, 08:51 AM
Check this out from the web at Hillary's house:


eTrace: Internet-based Firearms Tracing and Analysis

Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs

Fact Sheet

April 6, 2009


Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Tracing Center Division

ATF’s National Tracing Center assists Federal, State, local and foreign law enforcement agencies by tracing the origin of U.S source firearms that have been recovered in criminal investigations. Firearms tracing is the systematic tracking of the movement of a firearm recovered by law enforcement officials from its creation by the manufacturer or its introduction into U.S. commerce by the importer through the distribution chain to the first retail purchase. Law enforcement traces a firearm recovered at a crime scene to develop investigative leads that may link a suspect to a firearm in a criminal investigation; identify potential traffickers; and detect in-state, interstate and international patterns in the sources and kinds of crime guns.

eTrace is a web-based firearm trace request submission system that provides for the electronic exchange of crime gun data in a secure web-based environment. Participating law enforcement agencies with access to the internet can acquire 24/7 real-time capabilities to electronically submit firearm trace requests, monitor the progress of traces, retrieve completed trace results, and to query firearm trace related data in ATF’s database. Through eTrace, registered users have the capability to initiate a search for traces in various ways. For example, users can search by a firearm’s serial number, individual name, type of crime, date of recovery, and numerous other identifiers. Registered users can also generate various statistical reports regarding the number of traces submitted over time, the top firearms traced, the average time-to-crime rates, and more. This will allow any law enforcement agency to develop investigative strategies to reduce firearms-related crime and violence. eTrace access is free of charge.

The benefits of eTrace include the ability to interactively develop investigative leads relative to your trace request; a significant decrease in the turnaround time required to process a trace request; improved data quality of trace related information by providing real time data validation; the ability to monitor the status of traces in a real-time environment; the ability to view/print/download completed trace results; and the ability to generate various statistical reports and perform on-line analytical research relative to your jurisdiction. There are nearly 30 foreign countries now participating in the eTrace program as well as thousands of police agencies throughout the United States. Each participating law enforcement agency must sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with ATF and designate each authorized user by name.

To request more information on eTrace contact the National Tracing Center Division at (800) 788-7133 or (304) 260-1500 or

October 30, 2009, 08:56 AM
Here's a list of foriegn countries that currently participate in e-Trace:

Western Hemisphere Participation in eTrace

Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs

Fact Sheet

May 26, 2009


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' (ATF) National Tracing Center (NTC) eTrace system enables law enforcement agencies to trace U.S. origin firearms that have been used in or suspected to have been used in criminal activities. The eTrace system enables law enforcement agencies to send trace requests directly to the NTC and receive the trace results back by Internet.

Organization of American State (OAS) Member States
1. Bahamas
2. Canada
3. Colombia
4. Dominican Republic
5. Jamaica
6. Mexico

New Central American Partners, December 2008
For additional information see

7. Belize
8. Costa Rica
9. El Salvador
10. Guatemala
11. Honduras
12. Nicaragua
13. Panama

New CARICOM Partners, March 31, 2009
For additional information see

14. Antigua and Barbuda
15. Barbados
16. Dominica
17. Grenada
18. Saint Kitts & Nevis
19. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
20. Saint Lucia (signed April 17, 2009)
21. Guyana (signed May 12, 2009)
22. Trinidad and Tobago (Signed May 19, 2009)
23. Suriname (Signed May 20, 2009)

Territories in the Caribbean
24. Anguilla
25. Aruba
26. Curacao

Other International Participants Outside the Hemisphere
27. Australia
28. Germany
29. Japan

Art Eatman
October 30, 2009, 12:19 PM
Looks to me like eTrace stops at the dealer in those states which do not have the registration/FOID systems or similar. Records are readily available for the sequence of factory to distributor to dealer.

For instance, in Texas, an agent would have to go to a dealer to check for a specific purchaser since no state registration is required. NICS checks only for a would-be buyer's criminal record but does not have any record of specific firearm info.

October 31, 2009, 12:08 PM

Re your comment, correct so far, on what data/factors NICS checks contain or involve, one wonders as to how long before the push for expansion of NICS, to include other "essential" data, such as firearm make, model and serial number. Also, might such a push already be underway?

The foregoing are NOT intended as criticism of your comment, they are merely things that come to my suspicious mind.

Art Eatman
October 31, 2009, 12:27 PM
A change in NICS would require a change in the law by Congress, so as usual we have to watch Congress. I guess an Executive Order is possible, but that's probably not highly likely.

November 1, 2009, 12:47 PM

By all means, congressional antics bear close watching, as do those Executive Orders, about which the following.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't a whole lot that we mere citizens can do about EO's. I believe, in theory, The Congress has the power to over rule, over ride or set them aside, however I personally cannot recall this happening. My memory might be faulty though.

Art Eatman
November 1, 2009, 02:37 PM
SFAIK, Congress has the constitutional authority to overrule an Executive Order. That's a memory thing, though, and I'd need to hunt for a definitive answer.

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