why microscopic guns


PDA






Nicodemus38
October 28, 2009, 11:24 PM
Ive been looking at buying a handgun, really cant pin it down on revolver versus a quality semi. Have a few issues i cant get past with semi autos.

Why such short barrels on all the so called tactical and personal defense lines/ Why cant they seem to get a 4 inch barrel in thats actually 4 inches long?

If you enjoyed reading about "why microscopic guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
KyJim
October 28, 2009, 11:35 PM
Why such short barrels on all the so called tactical and personal defense lines/ Why cant they seem to get a 4 inch barrel in thats actually 4 inches long?
There's a bunch of semi-autos with barrels longer than four inches. As for why so many shorter barreled pistols, they're easier to conceal for most and there are a lot more people carrying now than 10 years ago.

hammerklavier
October 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
What we really need is a telescoping barrel -- it's 2 inches long, but telescopes to 6. :)

mesinge2
October 28, 2009, 11:46 PM
Personally, I've found that the grip is harder to conceal than the length of the barrel. I regularly carry a beretta M9 or a Colt 1911. The barrell lengths are 4.9" and 5" respectfully. But the beretta's wide grip is harder to conceal than the 1911 slender one.

John Wayne
October 29, 2009, 01:07 AM
A "4 inch" semiauto barrel is four inches from the back of the chamber to the muzzle.

A "4 inch" revolver barrel is actually four inches in length.

Shorter barrels are popular for several reasons, including concealability and better handling characteristics. With most popular models there will usually be a longer barreled version if that's what you're after. They are usually marketed as target models with adjustable sights.

sidheshooter
October 29, 2009, 03:09 AM
With regard to autoloaders, I'm hoping to see even more of a trend of short frames with longer barrels; for example commander length uppers on officers frames or the springfield xd compact (to some extent the stubby glocks are like this...like the 26 with its two-fingered grip and full 3.5 barrel...).

I'd like a ruger LCP with another half-inch on the barrel as well. Keep the grip small, but give me a tube to burn some powder with.

zhyla
October 29, 2009, 12:03 PM
Why get hung up over barrel length? I've got autos with various barrel lengths, I don't have an issue hitting my target with any of them. For a defensive gun I think any mid-size auto will be accurate enough.

I don't actually know what the burn ratio is like for different handgun calibers and barrel lengths. Anyone have any actual data? I think I saw some small handgun (LCP? something similar at least) chrono'd vs a 4" barreled gun with the same ammo and the velocity was only negligibly lower. Obviously this can be wildly different depending on caliber.

Shadan7
October 29, 2009, 06:56 PM
I don't actually know what the burn ratio is like for different handgun calibers and barrel lengths. Anyone have any actual data?

Ask, and ye shall receive: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/


Jim D.

CWL
October 29, 2009, 07:59 PM
SD carry guns are for fast & furious use in an emergency, shorter barrels will come out of a holster faster than a longer barreled gun.

Besides, most modern pistols and ammo are more than enough for COM & headshots within 15-20 yards, you don't really need a bigger gun.

bigfatdave
October 29, 2009, 09:16 PM
Seriously? The average carry pistol dwarfs my smallest two handguns (KT P32 and NAA .22mag) by a large margin. If you want microscopic, I invite you to shoot either of those, with a 2.68"(P32) and 1.625"(NAA) barrel and middle-finger-only grips. If I can keep those in an 8" circle at 10 yards, you should be fine with a 3.?" barrel for accuracy, and you might want to look int the "short barrel" loadings of SD ammo if you're really concerned with velocity loss due to a stubby barrel.

CCW guns are NOT target guns, pinpoint accuracy is a bonus if you get it (my Walther PPS is surprisingly accurate, but I would be OK if it wasn't) but 3-4 inch barrels are the norm in CC targeted autoloaders.

makarovnik
October 29, 2009, 09:20 PM
I agree with the grip being the difficult part to conceal.

dondavis3
October 29, 2009, 09:24 PM
I like shorter barrels on auto's and revolvers.

I've noticed a shift or a trend to shorter barrels over the past 10 years or so and I've chalked it up to so many more people carrying concealed carry guns.

WyoShooter1
October 29, 2009, 09:45 PM
With regard to autoloaders, I'm hoping to see even more of a trend of short frames with longer barrels; for example commander length uppers on officers frames or the springfield xd compact (to some extent the stubby glocks are like this...like the 26 with its two-fingered grip and full 3.5 barrel...).

I'd like a ruger LCP with another half-inch on the barrel as well. Keep the grip small, but give me a tube to burn some powder with.
Here's a design I'm waiting to see in production. The barrel extends back over the magazine and the cartridge is pulled backward to load into the chamber. For any given overall slide length, you wind up with a longer barrel.

http://www.bobergengineering.com/video2.wmv

http://www.bobergengineering.com/video_page.htm



Ed

Dave T
October 29, 2009, 09:49 PM
What we really need is a telescoping barrel -- it's 2 inches long, but telescopes to 6.

No, what we really need are better topics and better responses.

Dave

Nicodemus38
October 29, 2009, 11:23 PM
my hands arent normal sized, to get a semi pistol with a comfy grip i need to use the small medium frames, and those all have the short ccw type barrels on them. Those barrels dont really have the option of being swapped out for a longer one, and the few replacement barrels are all rigged up for compensators and porting, not what im trying to find.
So what does a person do?

zhyla
October 30, 2009, 05:26 PM
Pulled a little bit of data from http://ballisticsbytheinch.com (since there's so much data). Just looking at a couple loads for 9mm and .45, it's clear that the importance of barrel length depends greatly on what you're shooting out of it. But still, an extra 100 FPS between 4" and 5" barrel isn't that meaningful, imho.

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lc&chls=3,1,0|3,1,0|3,1,0|3,1,0&chxt=x,y&chxr=0,2,8|1,500,2000&chds=500,2000&chd=t:837,902,951,1007,1030,1040,1047|1215,1345,1444,1539,1566,1619,1634|1001,1050,1163,1238,1283,1313,1367|709,758,814,843,874,906,903&chs=700x400&chdl=9mm Hydra-Shok 147 gr|9mm CorBon 90gr %2BP|.45 CorBon 165gr %2BP|.45 Hydra-Shok 230gr&chco=009900,00BB00,994400,BB6600&chtt=Muzzle Velocities vs Barrel Length (select data from ballisticsbytheinch.com)

JellyJar
October 30, 2009, 06:19 PM
What John Wayne is talking about is that by law barrel length in revolvers is measured from the rear of the forcing cone in front of the cylinder to the barrel crown and does not count the chambers in the cylinder. With autos and rifles or any other firearm that has a chamber that is integral to the barrel the length is measured from the crown of the muzzle to the rear of the chamber.

NMGonzo
October 31, 2009, 12:08 PM
Officer's frame on a Combat Commander slide is my next fetish.

LancerMW
October 31, 2009, 01:11 PM
im starting to like those myself Gonzo

CUTENAME
October 31, 2009, 01:27 PM
Thanks JellyJar. "... by law barrel length in revolvers is measured from the rear of the forcing cone in front of the cylinder to the barrel crown and does not count the chambers in the cylinder. With autos and rifles or any other firearm that has a chamber that is integral to the barrel the length is measured from the crown of the muzzle to the rear of the chamber." I've wondered a long time whether the definition was arbitrary, or actual. You've defined that for me. Say, WyoShoot, have you ever fired a non-auto-loading semi- Semmerling? Strange and beautifull little .45 ACP with one HECK of a punch. Sort of made me think of it, seeing this boberg patent.

If you enjoyed reading about "why microscopic guns" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!