FFL handling not required for intra-state?


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Col. Plink
October 30, 2009, 12:34 PM
Hey y'all,

Just had a question regarding firearms shipping.

FFL's are only required to receive interstate shipments, correct? If I negotiated with someone in my own state, they could ship to me direct, yes?

Thanks for your help! (Just realized I may have missed an opportunity to have something shipped direct, oh well...)

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dogtown tom
October 30, 2009, 12:38 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm
(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Some states have laws that prohibit this.

scottaschultz
October 30, 2009, 01:00 PM
Sell it to you, yes.

Ship it to you? I am pretty sure the answer is NO! A gun is a gun no matter where you are shipping it. If its not that far away, just go pick it up if it would be cheaper to pay UPS/FedEx charges plus the FFL fee.

Scott

CoRoMo
October 30, 2009, 01:07 PM
Ship it to you? I am pretty sure the answer is NO! A gun is a gun no matter where you are shipping it.

Incorrect, except for the unchanging physical nature of a gun during transport, but nobody said otherwise did they?

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Art Eatman
October 30, 2009, 01:26 PM
Federal law says yes, ship it. Some states have their own restrictions, which might mean that going through a dealer is required--so it depends upon which state this is to happen.

TexasRifleman
October 30, 2009, 01:27 PM
A gun is a gun no matter where you are shipping it.

Nope. Not correct. Others have posted the Federal law on this.

Now where there may be an issue is with the shipper. You're going to be stuck using FedEx or UPS since a non FFL can't use the postal service and they have some odd rules.

In the end a lot of people end up paying an FFL to do it for them anyway simply out of convenience. Not necessarily a bad idea.

Col. Plink
October 30, 2009, 03:07 PM
So may residents of Texas ship firearms to one another directly? thanks!

TexasRifleman
October 30, 2009, 03:16 PM
Yeah you are good from Texas law angle, the Federal law is all that really applies to you here.

zoom6zoom
October 30, 2009, 03:32 PM
You're going to be stuck using FedEx or UPS since a non FFL can't use the postal service and they have some odd rules.
Only for handguns. Private citizens can indeed ship long arms via USPS.

NavyLCDR
October 30, 2009, 05:16 PM
So may residents of Texas ship firearms to one another directly? thanks!

Legally, YES.

Practically, probably not, because you may not be able to find a shipper that will do it for you, but there certainly is no law against you trying.

NightStalkerTX
October 30, 2009, 05:30 PM
As others have posted, federal law allows intrastate transfers and shipment without involving an FFL. Legally, you can use the USPS for a long gun, but I'm unsure of their policy regarding whether you can ship it to someone other than a FFL. Handguns are a bit more problematic, as non-FFL citizens cannot use USPS for shipping, and most other carriers refuse to ship to a non-FFL. There is one courier service in Texas that I know will carry your long gun or handgun intrastate between two non-FFL parties. They are Lonestar Overnight, www.lonestarovernight.com. Their prices are comparable to other carriers, and you avoid the FFL transfer fee.

TexasRifleman
October 30, 2009, 05:48 PM
ractically, probably not, because you may not be able to find a shipper that will do it for you, but there certainly is no law against you trying.

I've managed to get FedEx to do it for me in the past but I had to go to one of their main offices and I had to use their overnight service.

Cosmoline
October 30, 2009, 05:56 PM
I've sold and shipped both ways in intra-state transactions with fellow Alaskans many times. Long guns ship by USPS, no problem. Short guns cost extra with common carriers and you may have problems, but so far I haven't. Interstate is obviously different.

CoRoMo
October 30, 2009, 05:59 PM
If you're not required to drop it off at their station, maybe just call for a pickup service. The delivery driver might not take as much convincing as a counter clerk. I've known the FedEx guy that comes to my office almost everyday now for years, and I imagine he would likely ship anything I told him to.

dogtown tom
October 30, 2009, 10:16 PM
scottaschultz Sell it to you, yes.

Ship it to you? I am pretty sure the answer is NO!...

Nope. The answer is yes.

NavyLT:Legally, YES.

Practically, probably not, because you may not be able to find a shipper that will do it for you, but there certainly is no law against you trying.

It is always a good idea to carry the UPS/FedEx/USPS policy with you when you drop the shipment at the counter. I ship several guns each week and still run into clerks who "think" they know the regs. I get to show them those regulations about once a month. I try not to do this to the clerk --> :neener:


NightStalkerTX ...and most other carriers refuse to ship to a non-FFL.

Only FedEx requires shipment to an FFL. See UPS policy below.


UPS Policy:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...h_phr=firearms

Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.





Follow These Packing Requirements
Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.





About Documentation and Labeling
The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.





Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer. When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer. See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

nalioth
October 30, 2009, 10:54 PM
Practically, probably not, because you may not be able to find a shipper that will do it for you, but there certainly is no law against you trying.
I've managed to get FedEx to do it for me in the past but I had to go to one of their main offices and I had to use their overnight service.
I wonder why these issues keep being reported? Is it the counter person obeying "the law of their own making"?

I've shipped handguns via UPS, and long guns via USPS (both intrastate [to private individuals/FFLs] and interstate [to FFLs]) without a single issue dozens of times.

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