9mm with blue dot


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xd9
October 30, 2009, 08:11 PM
hey guys I just went to the local gun shop and picked up some blue dot powder. I looked at the load recommended and it said min. was 8.0 and max was 8.0 I am using hornady 9mm 115g gr. RN fmj with cci MAGNUM small pistol primers and was hoping to see what you guys recommended for a start load or if any of you had a good load with 115 gr 9mm fmj. thanks

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ChristopherG
October 30, 2009, 08:23 PM
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=115&shellid=23&bulletid=25&bdid=30

Magnum primers are unnecessary and undesirable in 9mm. It's a tiny little case; it doesn't need all that BANG to ignite. If you must use them, reduce loads by some reasonable amount (10% would be my guess).

I know the bullet indicated is not an FMJ; that's why you reduce by 10% (anyway) to start your own experimentation and build up from there.

Walkalong
October 30, 2009, 08:28 PM
Speer # 13 gives 7.7 to 8.5 Grs Blue Dot with 115 Gr jacketed bullets. 1161 & 1258 FPS.

Sounds like you need a load book. :)

ChristopherG
October 30, 2009, 08:37 PM
Two. Everyone needs at least two loadbooks. Plus the internet!

chris in va
October 30, 2009, 09:08 PM
My Lyman manual shows a 115gr JHP (no FMJ listed) as 6.8-7.6+ (which means a compressed load). There's only a 78fps difference between the two loads but pressure is 27k to 32k, quite a difference.

SlamFire1
October 30, 2009, 10:13 PM
I would recommend that you take that Blue Dot back and get something else. I tested Blue Dot in the 9mm and published loading data came close to damaging my pistol.

Somewhere I read in a gun magazine a recommended load of 8.0 grains with a 125. That load double pumped my Beretta. I never had a load before that was so hot that the slide went forward, then bounced back, before going into battery.

I finally settled on a load of 6.5 grains Blue Dot, loaded up an ammo can of the stuff. If you look at my data you see huge ES's at that charge. That caused function issues as the upper velocity loads functioned the pistol correctly, but the lower loads might not function the pistol.

I have shot most of the stuff up, and I am going with a faster powder, Bullseye. Nice tight ES's and SD's and shoot fine.

Incidentally, shill gunwriters seldom publish SD's and ES's with their loading data. I think Mike Venturino is the only one I have seen do that. Some of these fools recommend powders that have huge extreme spreads, when you test their loads. This is not good. Powders that give ES's in terms of hundreds of feet per second are just not good choices to use.

I tested Blue Dot in many different cartridges. It works well with 357's and jacketed bullets. It would probably do well in a 44 Mag and jacketed bullets. Everything else, including the 9mm, it is an awful powder.


[M92 FS Beretta Bar Sto Barrel

125 gr FMJ Olympic Factory
27-Mar-06 T = 61 F
Ave Vel = 1261
Std Dev = 20?
ES 63.11
High 1288
Low 1225
N = 10


125 LRN .356" Valiant 4.0 grs Bullseye S&W cases WSP OAL: 1.110'
9-Apr-06 T = 58 F accurate

Ave Vel = 1099
Std Dev = 12.16
ES 44.48
High 1124
Low 1080
N = 15


125 LRN Valiant .356" 6.0 grs Blue Dot S&W cases WSP OAL: 1.110'
9-Apr-06 T = 58 F v. accurate functioned each shot
Ave Vel = 1048
Std Dev = 32
ES 94
Low 1012
High 1106
N = 14



125 LRN Valiant .356' 6.5 grs Blue Dot S&W cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 59 F v.accurate slight leading at muzzle
Ave Vel = 1148
Std Dev = 30.87
ES 140.6
High 1226
Low 1085
N = 33


125 LRN Valiant .356" 7.5 grs Blue Dot S&W cases WSP OAL 1.110"
27-Mar-06 T = 60 F accurate, too much recoil leading at end of barrel
Ave Vel = 1326
Std Dev = 29.81
ES 105.2
High 1383
Low 1278
N = 27


125 LRN Valiant .356" 8.0 grs Blue Dot S&W cases WSP OAL 1.110"
27-Mar-06 T = 60 F way too much recoil! violent operation!

Ave Vel = 1414
Std Dev = 14.42
ES 42.1
High 1434
Low 1392
N = 8

Maj Dad
October 30, 2009, 11:55 PM
I use Blue Dot, but not in the 9mm - 38 Super IPSC major power and others. The 9x19 is a small case and doesn't lend itself to what Blue Dot does. Bullseye, AA#2, 231, Red/Green Dot, even AA#5, Unique and a number of others jump out, but I would not use BD unless it is the only thing available for the foreseeable future. If you don't have a paper load manual, look online for Accurate Arms, Winchester/Hodgedon, Alliant and Hodgdon, and plan accordingly. Blue Dot is a niche powder; 9mm isn't a niche cartridge. My opinion... :cool:
Maj Dad

depoloni
October 30, 2009, 11:57 PM
Can tell you from experience that Blue Dot isn't an idea powder also. That said, I get the highest velocities at acceptable pressures (according to primers, case heads, primer pockets, and other measurements) with Blue Dot (edit: with one particular cast bullet weight).

There is, as one/several previous posters mentioned, never an application with an acceptable powder in 9mm that requires a magnum primer, although I know several folks using them due to the horrible shortages over the last year. If you have regulars, use them, that's all.

I chrono'd loads in 9mm that I posted here somewhere a good while back. Was getting about 1240fps out of a 122 cast TC but, before pressures showed nasty signs, I was getting un-burnt powder in the barrel and velocities leveled flat off despite charge increases. Beyond a point, more powder means more unburnt crap in your barrel.

Not that I'm any sort of uber-authority, but the advice you've received so far seems to be right on generally.

Steve C
October 31, 2009, 12:08 AM
There's quite a bit of variation in the recommended loads for BD in the 9mm. Some manuals with 115gr bullets list 8.0grs as max and others start at that load and go up to 8.9 grs. Alliants previous data listed 8.0grs as max with 115gr FMJ's but 8.2 grs as maximum for 125gr Lead or Jacketed bullets.

I have shot 8.0grs behind a 115gr Remington JHP that yielded an average velocity of 1,224 fps. 8.0grs of BD fills the case and the charge may be compressed when the bullet is seated but it works OK though I'd rather use Power Pistol or Unique in the 9mm.

I like BD in the magnum revolver cartridges.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108256&stc=1&d=1256958826

fecmech
October 31, 2009, 12:10 AM
As most of the previous posters were talking of jacketed bullets in the 9MM and Blue Dot and I've shot very little jacketed 9mm I can't comment. IMO BD is a great cast powder in the 9mm from 115-147 gr bullets and I have shot many thousands of them through 4 different 9mm guns. Using BD I was able to easily duplicate jacketed velocities with accuracy equal to jacketed rounds.

dsv424
October 31, 2009, 03:14 AM
I have used 7.7 grains Blue Dot with Sierra JHP, but with a CCI 500 primer. This was a good round in my Baretta M9. Although I normally use either Unique, Bullseye, or W231 for recipes with 9mm.

Marlin 45 carbine
October 31, 2009, 06:17 AM
get a jug of Power Pistol.

FM12
November 1, 2009, 12:20 AM
You can go out and buy powder? I hate you, nothing personal though.

Clark
November 1, 2009, 02:20 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

9.7 gr Blue Dot 124 gr causes pierced primer in 1.169" 9x19mm.

Galil5.56
November 1, 2009, 09:26 AM
Just recently tried 8.2 grains of Blue Dot/124 grain WW 124 grain FMJ/CCI 500 and got a 1213 fps avg from my Beretta M9. The BD used was from a 1lb can I bought in 1980, but shows no signs of degradation. Fired cases went back into he chamber easily, with almost no expansion even in the unsupported area.

Like HS-7/WW571 and other really slow burners I have tried in 9mm, I still like Unique and Power Pistol best for top end charges, and if left with only one choice make it Power Pistol.

Walkalong
November 1, 2009, 01:59 PM
My Blue Dot container sits idle on the shelf. It works well for some things, but is not that versatile IMHO, and there are so many better powders, especially in 9MM.

Redneck with a 40
November 1, 2009, 07:26 PM
I run Blue Dot in my 40 S&W, with 165 grain bullets. This powder produces some real thumpers that are very accurate, I like it. I've found 9 grains behind a 165 gr JHP to be pretty sweet.

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