Case Length in .38 Special


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Oyeboten
October 31, 2009, 07:57 PM
Re-Loaded my 2nd Box of 'Fifty' last night...


Being vigilant about any high-Primers, inspecting every Round after each individual procedure.


Found one slightly high Primer, which I re-seated (case was still empty)...and...


Ended up having seven Rounds whose Cases were just enough shorter for them to have not got a decent Crimp.


So...I lowered the Die a little, Crimped those nicely...re-set the Die...



Now...I am brooding on getting a Case Trimmer...


Lol...


I want a nice, uniform Crimp on every round..!



Am I being too fussy?

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Walkalong
October 31, 2009, 08:10 PM
I trim all my revolver brass. As you have discovered, your crimps will not be uniform if you don't.

Good enough? That's another debate. :evil:

Am I being too fussy?
Absolutely not! But I am kind of anal, so take it for what it's worth. :D

billybob44
October 31, 2009, 08:53 PM
I trim all my revolver brass. As you have discovered, your crimps will not be uniform if you don't.

Good enough? That's another debate. :evil:


Absolutely not! But I am kind of anal, so take it for what it's worth. :D
Walkalong, from the words of his post he had 43 cases that needed trimmed to be as short as the 7 that he had to re-crimp. IMO Straight wall/tapered handgun brass trimming is for people with too much time on their hands?? The poster did not say how many DAYS he spent on hand-loading that last box of 50 rounds. I would venture to say that 148 HBWC .38Spl. target loads ran through my Dillon 550 would be as accurate as any similar loads that took 3-5 hours to load?? No not as exact, but yes, works just as well!!

rfwobbly
October 31, 2009, 09:22 PM
I want a nice, uniform Crimp on every round..!

That's a good goal to have.


Am I being too fussy?

That depends on what you want to do. If you want to outshoot Mr. Walkalong then you had better trim your cases and get up very early in the morning. If you just want to knock some cans off the fence post, then "yes".

Walkalong
October 31, 2009, 10:06 PM
Walkalong, from the words of his post
I can read thank you. My answer stands. ;)

Oyeboten
October 31, 2009, 10:41 PM
Lol...


I have a very nice "Lyman" Press...the 'Tru-Line Jr.' Model...single-stage, four-hole Turret.


It is a joy...and, 'fifty' Rounds of .38 Special probably do not take much more than an Hour...bearing in mind I am new at this.


I think what I will do...is to segregate my Brass by length...into two Camps.

I see no point in Trimming 90 percent of it, to oblige the occasional 'shorty'.


However, I would like to have all the 'shorties' be the same length, and, all the 'normal' ones, be their same length.


I'm confident that a good uniform Crimp figures into having consistent ballistics, all else being equal, especially if using light Bullets, but, regardless.


So...I'll get a Case Trimmer...segregate my Brass into the 'two' Camps...and any errant-length Shells, will be adjusted for membership in one Camp or the other.


Seems easy enough!


Edit:



Just read another Thread where 'Spcers' were shown.


It'd be very easy for me to just use Spacer under the 'Shorties', in the Shell-Holder, if I prefered to leave the Die Setting be...

kelbro
November 1, 2009, 12:29 AM
Check out the Lee case trimmer setups. Low price. Accurate. Handheld electric screwdriver and you are in production mode.

Oyeboten
November 1, 2009, 12:51 AM
Hi kelbro,


Thanks!


Will do...

Oyeboten
November 1, 2009, 05:40 AM
Hi billybob44,



You got me wondering...so...since I was going to do another 'Fifty' Rounds to-night, I Timed it -

Grab Fifty Cases...De-prime...size Cases...Prime...check for any 'high' Primers...Charge Cases with Powder using a small Bowl of Powder, and a Dipper and Funnel...cut out Fifty 'Lube-Wafers...insert fifty Lube Wafers into the Charged Cases...insert Fifty Bullets...Press Bullets to final Depth...Crimp...check for uniform length, uniform Crimp.


42 Minutes...start-to-finish...for a Box of Fifty...with no feeling of hurrying.


Fine with me...


One Box-a-Night, as an easy-going after-supper relax, for a Year, would be 365 x Fifty, or...18,250 Rounds.


Lol...


Not what I will do...I am only learning to Load, and experimenting.

ChristopherG
November 1, 2009, 07:29 AM
This is an absolutely understandable thing to do as an experiment in learning to reload. And, if you are entering one of those famous bench-rest competitions for .38 special, ;-), maybe even necessary.

However, as a long-term practice, you might find that this kind of exactitude will wear you down. I've loaded many thousands of rounds of .38 special and never trimmed one yet, and it is still more than accurate enough for any use I've ever had for a .38 (which has included competitive use).

1911Tuner
November 1, 2009, 08:15 AM
For my nickel's worth...

I'm a case trimmer. I like to get'em all within .003 inch and go from there...not because of any accuracy concerns...but because I like consistent roll crimps. I trim to minimum length.

Shoot'em and size'em...and they're not the same any more. This is particularly true if using mixed headstamps.

I said that I'm a trimmer...not that I actually like to trim.

So...I set my die to crimp the average/middle-of-the-road lengths...determined by taking aeveral sample measurements...and any that are too short to crimp properly, I seat the bullets and set'em aside. Then, once the main lot is done...I loosen the lock ring and make minor adjustments for the short seated/lightly crimped rounds.

About every 5th firing...or more often if the pressures have been high in magnum rounds...I check all the cases for maximum length...and trim any that I find back to about the average length for the lot.

FWIW, High pressure magnum rounds should really be loaded in matching headstamps for obvious reasons...and the not so obvious reason is so that any lengthening will be more consistent.

It cuts way down on trim time, and makes for pretty consistent ammunition. I've got a 200-round lot of .357 Winchester brass that hasn't needed trimming in 10 loadings...and I normally load to the upper end with 2400 and 160-grain cast bullets.

The Bushmaster
November 1, 2009, 09:20 AM
I'm with Walkalong (and anyone else that prefers trimmed brass)...And I'm anal about my revolver cases and trim all to within +/-.002" of each other. To me that crimp being as near to equal as possible is a very important part of assembling better ammunition then the next person or factory...

MMCSRET
November 1, 2009, 09:59 AM
If the slight difference in length was causing me concern over "HOW THEY LOOK" I'd invest in a taper crimp die for 38/357 and taper crimp. Then you won't see a difference in "HOW IT LOOKS" and they are just as accurate for 99.9999999% of the rest of us.

Walkalong
November 1, 2009, 01:50 PM
For all those who think consistent crimps and good ES & SD numbers don't matter, try shooting pistol calibers at long range.

Does it matter enough for your use? Only you can answer that. Some of us are pickier in all things. I see them all the time at work. "Aww, that's good enough". Well, most of the time it is, but sometimes it isn't. I take a little too much pride in my work than to cut corners. I am the same way with reloading for the most part. The more stringent the need of the load, the more picky I am with its preparation. :cool:

I know a fellow on this board who never trims his .38 Spl brass. He shoots a ton of Cowboy stuff and simply doesn't have time to worry with it. Besides, it only makes a small difference and it will never show in what he is doing.

I would rather trim my brass, but if I was shooting and loading several thousands of .38 Spl, I might not trim it either. I have loaded some really good ammo using taper crimps in .38 Spl brass that has never been trimmed. :)


99.9999999% Sure about that? I think more than .0000001% of us are pickier than that. :D

MMCSRET
November 1, 2009, 02:18 PM
I wasn't picky enough to try to split a hair I couldn't see.

Walkalong
November 1, 2009, 04:14 PM
I assumed you were not in the .0000001%. :evil: :neener:

I take it you think it is a waste of time, so I leave you to your bliss and your untrimmed cases. I will continue to trim mine. I think I see that hair. ;)

Please: Don't anyone take this personally. It's merely my opinion, and you know how opinions go. :)

Oyeboten
November 1, 2009, 09:11 PM
The bunch of Cases where seven were a tad shorter, were mixed Head stamp 'Range Find' ones.


Last night, in loading 'Fifty' more...I reached for a Bag of 'Once Fired' all same Headstamp, and, all were identical length.

I find also, some Brands have quite small Primer Holes...so...been setting those into their own 'group'.


I love Loading...paying attention to detail.


None of these seeming small aspects seem to me to be any bother...they are respect being payed, regard...feeling good about how I do things.


Like that...


I'll just sort all the Brass sometime soon, for Headstamp, and, Length.


Go from there...


All 'Shorties' will get Trimmed to uniformity...and I will make a simple Spacer-Shim for the Shell-Holder for when they are being Belled/Crimped.


All Longies, I'll let be just as they are...and see how things go.

lgbloader
November 1, 2009, 09:34 PM
Bushmaster says:I'm with Walkalong (and anyone else that prefers trimmed brass)...And I'm anal about my revolver cases and trim all to within +/-.002" of each other. To me that crimp being as near to equal as possible is a very important part of assembling better ammunition then the next person or factory...


I'm with Bushmaster who is with Walkalong.

LGB

Oyeboten
November 1, 2009, 10:44 PM
Here's a hoot...


I began preliminary sorting of my not-already-all-same-headstamp Nickle .38 Special Cases.


In one hand-full, I had fourteen different ones.


Various make +P+...Hi-Vel...Super-Vel...various make +P...'plain' Western...UMC...WW...Western...Peters...Remington...on and on and on...


Insanity...


Other than segregating Nickel and Brass-Brass...


I'll just keep an eye peeled for...


A) Small Primer Holes


B) Shorties...


And...call it 'Macaroni'...


I'll save my 1000 or so 'Once Fired, same Headstamp' ones for a the Future...

qajaq59
November 2, 2009, 10:06 AM
I want a nice, uniform Crimp on every round..! It's your brass and your time so I see nothing wrong with what you are doing. Better too picky then not picky enough.

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