Dragunov Tigr


PDA






AnimeFanatic5602
October 31, 2009, 11:46 PM
The Tigr rifle, made by Izhmash in Russia, is the sporting version of the Dragunov SVD sniper rifle. Originally imported into the U.S. By B West, importation was stopped some time in the mid 90's by the Clinton administration. As I see it, this rifle is no better or worse than several other types of semi-auto rifles that are currently made in America, or imported. Case in point, the Romanian "Dragunov" type rifles, which are little more than glorified Ak's chambered for 7.62x54R. Though the Tigr isn't currently on the U.S. munitions list, the list can be amended. I encourage people to write a letter to the ATF asking for this change to be made. It should only take a few minutes, and would help beat laws made with the same attitude as the now-defunct "assault weapons" ban. A few letters may not be enough to sway the ATF, but many interested citizens all asking for the same thing can be a powerful force indeed.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/tigr.shtml

If you enjoyed reading about "Dragunov Tigr" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ccsniper
November 1, 2009, 12:02 AM
you should include a link to the ATF's contact page. People are lazy and won't even bother if you don't post a link to it.

ccsniper
November 1, 2009, 12:04 AM
here it is

http://www.atf.gov/contact/index.htm

EDIT: Sorry, just noticed they won't accept email inquiries about it. But you can still get the address from that site.

THE DARK KNIGHT
November 1, 2009, 01:17 PM
I would REALLY love one of those Tigr rifles since we can't have PSL's/SVD's here cause of the flash suppressor. As much as I think the ban should be lifted, I just don't get why no one will manufacture them here. The rifle is much simpler to manufacture than many modern designs and the demand is huge. Such an untapped market.

AnimeFanatic5602
November 15, 2009, 07:17 PM
Even if the ban was lifted, you'd have to convince Izhmash to license it before you could start making Tigrs here. It is an untapped market, though. That's why I posted this suggestion in the first place; there's no real reason why these shouldn't be imported in the first place and if we can get enough people to badger the ATF about it, then something should get done eventually. We just need to make more people aware of the issue.

RedLion
November 15, 2009, 10:24 PM
untapped market? I'm pretty sure it would have to compete with a well established AR-10, M1A market.

nalioth
November 15, 2009, 11:15 PM
I would REALLY love one of those Tigr rifles since we can't have PSL's/SVD's here cause of the flash suppressor.Your legislators are misguided.

The PSL has a muzzle brake, not a flash hider.

THE DARK KNIGHT
November 16, 2009, 07:08 AM
The PSL has a muzzle brake, not a flash hider.

Sorry, I should have clarified. The rifle has a threaded barrel, which puts it in "Assault Weapon" classification here. We can have muzzle brakes only if they're pinned/soldered on permanently.

And yes, our legislators are a bunch of clowns. All the gun laws and Newark/Camden are some of the most dangerous places in the country.

untapped market? I'm pretty sure it would have to compete with a well established AR-10, M1A market.

500 rounds of steel cased x51 is ~$189 on ATG right now. 880 rounds of x54r is $159 on ATG. I don't see any competition there :)

BigG
November 16, 2009, 07:54 AM
The TIGR is a pretty nice weapon. I have one (BWest) and find it comparable to an M1A. And the scope is not bad, either.

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
November 16, 2009, 08:05 AM
AnimeFanatic5602>> Even if the ban was lifted, you'd have to convince Izhmash to license it before you could start making Tigrs here.
If its an old soviet design from the 1960s, why would it need to be licensed? This confuses me.:confused:

blaisenguns
November 16, 2009, 10:30 AM
I encourage people to write a letter to the ATF asking for this change to be made.

I realy dont think that would help, and there should be about a 10 page list of guns included with such a letter. Why doesnt someone get a list of guns together and write up a petition to the ATF and congress?

RedLion
November 16, 2009, 12:28 PM
@ Dark Knight

Well if the Tigr costs $1000, with x51 at $0.378 and x54 at $0.181, it'll take over 5000 rounds to just to justify the cost of the gun.... idk if thats worth it in my book, but makes a mosin look like fun......

THE DARK KNIGHT
November 16, 2009, 12:46 PM
Dark Knight

Well if the Tigr costs $1000, with x51 at $0.378 and x54 at $0.181, it'll take over 5000 rounds to just to justify the cost of the gun.... idk if thats worth it in my book, but makes a mosin look like fun......

The current price is so high because it is rare/highly desirable. If it were currently imported and regularly available I doubt it'd be over $600.

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
November 16, 2009, 02:06 PM
^^^^^^
A real dragunov for $600?:what::eek::D
With Izhmash going through bankruptcy, this is the perfect time for a US company to offer them a deal for their tooling, sorta like JLD with the Portuguese tooling for the PTR-91s.
Was china the only other country to produce the dragunov?

THE DARK KNIGHT
November 16, 2009, 02:40 PM
Well, I think it's more of a restructuring than a bankruptcy. I think the bankruptcy thing came about due to awkward translation. I figure the Tigr would probably be like a $600 gun, maybe 700 or 800 tops. Either way, it'd cheaper to buy and shoot than an M1A I'm sure.

ccsniper
November 16, 2009, 03:13 PM
[QUOTE]Was china the only other country to produce the dragunov? [QUOTE]

no, several countries made them. Iraq, poland and I believe north korea all make them. I could be wrong though, oh and those never will be imported here.

hso
November 16, 2009, 03:21 PM
Let's get refocused on helping AnimeFanatic5602 with his idea and not hijack his thread before we have to start pruning posts or close this altogether.

Grantman
November 17, 2009, 04:05 AM
Far out, this place is over moderated.

If I lived in the US I'd certainly make an effort to email the authorities like AnimeFanatic5602 recommended. I own a Tigr here in NZ and it is a great rifle in my opinion. As AnimeFanatic said, it is the civilian version of the SVD (although receiver stamping and barrel twist rate are virtually the only differentiation between certain optioned Tigrs and the SVD). Here in New Zealand dealers can import American rifles and basically any credible nation's arms exports including Russia's. For a country like us that falls short of the US in terms of gun ownership freedoms it is ridiculous that we have a firearm related freedom that you guys donít Ė importing Dragunovs. Email the ATF. Even if it goes nowhere at least you've done your part.

lobo9er
November 17, 2009, 02:47 PM
Some one needs to draft a email we can all copy and send. I was not gifted with words we could really focus and actually maybe make a dent. either a letter with just the tiger or a letter with a big list of guns that shouldn't be banned. Personally I think we take the an approach like the poloticians and chip away one gun at a time.

ccsniper
November 17, 2009, 03:46 PM
It says on their website that they do not accept email inquiries about policy, so you have to send them a letter.

lobo9er
November 17, 2009, 04:35 PM
Draft up a nicely worded letter for us to print out it would be well worth 45 of my pennies on a stamp. As long as its nicely worded lol

AnimeFanatic5602
November 17, 2009, 06:44 PM
Here's a modified copy of the letter that I am also sending to the ATF. It was originally a m.s. word document, but the only way that I could attach it was as a pdf. I hope that this helps.

gyvel
November 17, 2009, 07:17 PM
500 rounds of steel cased x51 is ~$189 on ATG right now. 880 rounds of x54r is $159 on ATG. I don't see any competition there

Until the surplus ammo dries up.

AnimeFanatic5602
February 20, 2010, 08:24 PM
I was hoping that this thread would get more attention.

blackpowder bob
February 20, 2010, 09:00 PM
B-West imported one with the muzzle brake and bayonet lug and one without. These are great to shoot. Both came with what I would call a true sniper scope.

AnimeFanatic5602
April 5, 2010, 05:25 PM
Hey, I just started a petition on this same issue. Perhaps it will be a bit more effective than individual letters (and it saves on postage too).

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/izhtgr12/petition.html

Grantman
April 5, 2010, 05:43 PM
Hey, I just started a petition on this same issue. Perhaps it will be a bit more effective than individual letters (and it saves on postage too).

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/izhtgr12/petition.html
The thing is that letters are actually noted while online petitions carry no legitemacy whatsoever and no government organisation would touch one with a bargepole. Might have some statistical interest though if not to many people multiple sign.

I'd sign anyway but I'm from NZ.

AnimeFanatic5602
April 5, 2010, 05:47 PM
Anyone can sign it, and the survey is meant to be printed out and mailed (the ATF doesn't accept email anyway). I'm hoping that a collective voice will be a bit more effective.

LoneCoon
April 5, 2010, 07:30 PM
Man, if the ban was lifted, IZMESH might bring the REX412 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg49-e.htm) to the states. I'd buy two.

Rail Driver
June 3, 2010, 06:34 PM
I signed this

FIVETWOSEVEN
June 3, 2010, 09:47 PM
I signed it to but only 4 others?

twkremer
June 4, 2010, 01:18 AM
Signed it!

LoneCoon
June 4, 2010, 10:35 AM
Man, if the ban was lifted, IZMESH might bring the REX412 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg49-e.htm) to the states. I'd buy two.
I'd buy 3. One for each hip, another as a safe queen.

Top break revolvers get me all hot and bothered. I'm not ashamed to admit that.

NMGonzo
June 4, 2010, 05:08 PM
Sorry, I should have clarified. The rifle has a threaded barrel, which puts it in "Assault Weapon" classification here. We can have muzzle brakes only if they're pinned/soldered on permanently.

And yes, our legislators are a bunch of clowns. All the gun laws and Newark/Camden are some of the most dangerous places in the country.



500 rounds of steel cased x51 is ~$189 on ATG right now. 880 rounds of x54r is $159 on ATG. I don't see any competition there :)

Yabbut ... would you be shooting surplus out of a Tigr?

maksim
June 4, 2010, 10:10 PM
dont have to shoot surplus, you can shoot new commercial steel case wolf/tula stuff.

xx7grant7x
June 4, 2010, 10:15 PM
how bout a long barrel saiga in x54r, those would be readily convertible ala all other saigas

FIVETWOSEVEN
June 6, 2010, 03:15 PM
add 20 round mags and that'll be a sweet piece! Although I wonder how they would deal with the rims. Wait isn't that a PSL minus the 20 rd'ers?

hso
June 7, 2010, 01:52 PM
This one's drifted into a technical discussion instead of staying on topic for Activism Discussion so we'll close it and let anyone interested in the firearm and ammunition open their own discussion in Rifle.

If you enjoyed reading about "Dragunov Tigr" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!