CZ 452 Lux - not made for scope??


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mountainpharm
November 3, 2009, 07:52 AM
OK, my 14 yo son is getting ready for his first competition shoot on Nov. 22nd. We're going to upgrade his equipment from a 10/22 to a CZ 452. The venue will have events for scopes and iron sights, and Plan A was to get the Lux, add some quick-release rings and scope, and let him have at it, removing and resighting the scope as needed. However, more than a few here and at Rimfire Central have commented that the stock on the Lux is really not amenable to a scope due to the shooter's head position on the hogback stock. Essentially what I've read is that CZs are made to be either/or, but not both. Plan B is to buy the 452 Lux for irons and the 452 American for scoped events. For the money I'm about to spend (Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Year, Happy National Potato Week, etc.) should I consider a Plan C?

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Jim Watson
November 3, 2009, 08:03 AM
He doesn't have to shoot in every possible division and event to start with.

There have been a lot of Luxes (Luxii?) fitted with scopes in spite of a less than theoretical stock shape. A strap-on cheekpad would be a big help for a lot less money than another rifle; IF allowed where you shoot (Not for CMP Rimfire Sporter, learn the rules.)

He could shoot the old Ruger with irons and an American with scope.

tmbg
November 3, 2009, 08:27 AM
I want a 452 lux specifically BECAUSE it's set up for iron sights... it annoys me that so many rifles these days come with no sights at all

Schleprok62
November 3, 2009, 08:28 AM
Have a look at the Remington Model Five. They have the grooves for mounting a scope and fully adjustable rifle sights...

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 3, 2009, 09:01 AM
The "Hogback Theory" is hogwash, at least insofar is this rimfire rifle is concerned. You can shoot with a scope just fine on the Luxe!

rtn
November 3, 2009, 09:04 AM
I shoot my 452 Lux with and without the scope.

You're right though, in that the stock is not ideal for a scope. That said, I routinely shoot it at 100 yards and can hit nickel size targets with good ammo.

For what you're doing the Lux is a good choice. Besides, it's a hell of a fun rifle to shoot with the excellent irons.

Nowhere Man
November 3, 2009, 09:24 AM
Go with Plan B if you can swing it. or,

Plan C.....Leave a scope on his 10/22. (An open sighted 10/22 is not the best for competition). Buy the Lux and and use it for open sight class.

If he enjoys it, replace the 10/22 with a 452 American in the future.



Dave

mountainpharm
November 3, 2009, 09:41 AM
The scoped events are essentially the NRA Silhouettes (100 yds, 70 yds, 50 yds, 40 yds). His 10/22 is absolutely stock -- do you think it will be able to make a decent showing among the field of CZs? Everything I've read at Rimfire says the CZs will eat the Rugers up, but I'm all for saving some cash if I can!

mountainpharm
November 3, 2009, 09:49 AM
One more question though it might be dumb one: are the magazines interchangeable between the different models of the 452?

Nowhere Man
November 3, 2009, 09:49 AM
I won't try to kid you, the CZ is definetly a step up from a stock 10/22.

I own both and shoot my 10/22 extremely well but, I still shoot my CZ American better.

FWIW. I would not buy a Lux and put a scope on it.

Dave

deacon8
November 3, 2009, 10:07 AM
I have a 452 Lux in a .22 mag. I have a scope on it and have only used it with a scope on it. It is a great little rifle. They are accurate and I have used it on quite a few varmints from coyotes and bobcats, to rattlesnakes. A Lux with a scope is no problem and, from experience, I fully recommend it.

I don't know about other people's posts, but I actually own and love mine. It is a great for what I use it for. Furthermore (and maybe most importantly to you), it punches nice, ragged, one-holed groups into the paper. Good luck in your decision.

d2wing
November 3, 2009, 03:47 PM
I vote for plan b. I have both an American and lux. The American is made for scope shooting. The lux has need very high mounts for the scope to clear the
rear sight and they also have a different size mounting grooves. I did it but it took a couple tries to get the right set up.

Nowhere Man
November 3, 2009, 07:33 PM
One more question though it might be dumb one: are the magazines interchangeable between the different models of the 452?


.22LR is different than the 17HMR but a .22 American is the same as a .22 Lux.

Then again......IIRC.....the Lux comes with a plastic mag while the American comes with a metal mag. Both are interchangeable though.

Dave

mountainpharm
November 3, 2009, 08:29 PM
Plan B it is. Ordered both the Lux and American today -- they should be here Friday. At least I can cross my son of my Christmas shopping list now. :D

Smith357
November 3, 2009, 08:59 PM
I had no problem mounting a Weaver 4x Rimfire scope on my 452 trainer, which is very similar to the Lux, using Leupold split rings.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/smith357/armory/IMG_2833a.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/smith357/armory/IMG_2828.jpg

Nowhere Man
November 3, 2009, 09:06 PM
You are a good father.:)


Dave

Uncle Mike
November 4, 2009, 06:44 AM
Hogback stocks are NOT for optics..... yea, you can use one with optics but.... you can kiss rattlers for fun too...not too smart!

The comb of the hogback drops off considerably so as to allow proper eye alignment with the iron sights, which by the way are a mere 1/2" above the centerline of the bore.

Mount a scope on one and, as you can see in the above picture(post #15) the centerline of that scope is waaaaay above the comb of the stock!

A man would have to use the ol' 'chin weld' type hold to even be able to see through it, and this type of shenanigan is not conducive to accuracy at all!

I have a Lux, use it for open sight silhouette matches at our local range and for fun...because with the accuracy of the Lux, it is a delight to plink with, with the open sights.
I have an American, scoped, for the squirrels when the 22MAG isn't used and a 452 Silhouette for said matches.

Hogbacks and scopes...not the best idea!

22-rimfire
November 4, 2009, 07:21 AM
Wow. Buying two rifles for your son at the same time. Can't say I disagree with your decision on rifles. Guess you will want a full blown target rifle next.... choose Anschutz. Seems like this is important to you and you are choosing good stuff.

Both the plastic and metal mags for CZ's are good. You will probably discover that when you buy additional mags for CZ's, you take what you can find.

mountainpharm
November 4, 2009, 07:31 AM
How is the accuracy of the American going to compare to the accuracy of the Lux? I've gotten mixed messages at my breakfast discussions with some of my shooting buddies. Most say they are quite comparable, but a couple say the American won't be able to run with the Lux (presumably due to the extra 2 inches of barrel??) I'm hoping there won't be any appreciable difference...

Uncle Mike
November 4, 2009, 07:42 AM
Most say they are quite comparable, but a couple say the American won't be able to run with the Lux (presumably due to the extra 2 inches of barrel??) I'm hoping there won't be any appreciable difference.

If there is ANY difference, any difference at all, I can't discern it!

All of my CZ 452's shoot the same...one of the attributes of the breed, they (CZ) turn out rifles with consistent quality and accuracy!

As far as ease of use...the extra length barrel is an asset with open sights, as for accuracy, I doubt the extra 2" is going to do much...on the rifle that is! whoops! lol hehehe

1832
November 4, 2009, 08:33 AM
While the cheek weld can be a problem with the Hog Back stock & scope, I have see-through mounts on my Trainer and can co-witness my irons through it. I guess it's an individual thing, but I have no problem switching from the irons to the scope. I keep the UL with irons only for the Sporter Class but like the Trainer set up for silhouettes. Your results may differ...

CZguy
November 4, 2009, 09:29 AM
The "Hogback Theory" is hogwash, at least insofar is this rimfire rifle is concerned. You can shoot with a scope just fine on the Luxe!

Hogwash. :D

The Lux is made to shoot with iron sights. By the way it comes with the best iron sights you'll ever find right from the factory. :cool:

Plan D would be to mount a receiver peep sight like this. You wouldn't need a scope.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/CZpeepsight.jpg

Ol` Joe
November 4, 2009, 12:29 PM
My CZ452FS has the "hogback" stock and I have no trouble useing the scope I`ve mounted on it (Weaver 2x7). If you are worried about the "odd" stock find an "American". Both rifles should shoot well, and any difference will be no different then you`ll see picking two Remington or Ruger rifles off the rack and testing them against each other.

Cosmoline
November 4, 2009, 12:38 PM
I want a 452 lux specifically BECAUSE it's set up for iron sights... it annoys me that so many rifles these days come with no sights at all

Exactly my feeling as well. The lux has fantastic sights that negate the need for a scope.

d2wing
November 4, 2009, 02:14 PM
Due to eyesight I had to mount a scope. An age thing. At last check, my Lux did out shoot my American, but on other days the American wins. Heat and ammo changes seem to affect my American more, It could be just the shooter. Both shoot extremely well.

CZguy
November 5, 2009, 01:25 AM
The lux has fantastic sights that negate the need for a scope.

That's the crux of the matter.

Due to eyesight I had to mount a scope. An age thing.

See my lyman receiver sights in post # They work as good as a scope, and they handle great.

bukijin
November 5, 2009, 05:35 AM
I've got a scope on mine and never had any problems.

CZguy
November 5, 2009, 10:15 AM
I've got a scope on mine and never had any problems.

Do you have a very long neck?

CZguy
November 5, 2009, 10:31 AM
Duplicate post............Mods please delete.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 5, 2009, 10:50 AM
CZ Guy, I do *really* like the Lyman peep idea for this rifle (you had to inlet your stock for this sight, CZguy?).

But a low-mounted scope does NOT necessarily have to make this a "chin gun" - a mid-cheek gun maybe, but not a chin gun. I think the effects of the hogback described are present, yes, but they've been exaggerated in this thread - just get your scope low! :p

In any event, as mentioned, the sights ARE fantastic on the Luxe, and IMO, you should get other .22s to used scoped, for that reason, and leave the Luxe for irons - best use is for training your kids, grandkids, nieces & nephews, etc. on irons. But again, I do like the peep for old eyes. Not only are the sights on the Luxe very good, but the "too-long" barrel may as well be utilized for its sight radius increase over a 16-20" bbl.

CZguy
November 5, 2009, 11:54 AM
In any event, as mentioned, the sights ARE fantastic on the Luxe, and IMO, you should get other .22s to used scoped, for that reason, and leave the Luxe for irons - best use is for training your kids, grandkids, nieces & nephews, etc. on irons. But again, I do like the peep for old eyes. Not only are the sights on the Luxe very good, but the "too-long" barrel may as well be utilized for its sight radius increase over a 16-20" bbl.

You have made my argument for me. Yes, I really like the Lyman peep sights. I'm not able to see the excellent iron sights that came with this rifle anymore, and the peep sights give me such a good sight radius that I'm able to make accurate hits out to 75 yards. I own several other .22s and if I feel the need to shoot with a scope I naturally would select one of them.

I guess all of this really boils down to personal preference. To me stock fit is extremely important for me to shoot well. If I put a scope on a Lux I would always be straining to shoot it. Others may well have entirely different results.

d2wing
November 5, 2009, 03:22 PM
I haven't used peep sights for many years. I prefered open sights for hunting. But am thinking I should give peeps a try. Thanks for the info.
BTW I am unable to see the sights and the target at the same time anymore due to farsightedness.

SwampWolf
November 5, 2009, 03:54 PM
BTW I am unable to see the sights and the target at the same time anymore due to farsightedness.

No matter how good your vision is (or used to be), it was never in the cards for us humans to be able to focus on a faraway object and a close-up object at the same time with equal clarity unaided by optics. Ergo, the marksman's admonition to focus on the front sight and let the target be a blur.

Tenebrio
November 21, 2009, 06:13 AM
I've no soucy to get a ZOS 10-40x60 riflescope on my CZ 452 Lux. Just need a high double fixed rings on the dovetail and you're accurate at 150 yds in a 2" piece. Great.

alexanderplatz
November 22, 2009, 10:44 AM
I had a scope on my 452 Lux and it worked great. I had to purchase the taller scope rings to clear the rear sight. Later, I got a 452 American and transferred the scope to it, so now I shoot the Lux with the iron sights. As others have said, the Lux has really nice iron sights.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4505/22lr001fa1.jpg

Nowhere Man
November 22, 2009, 04:04 PM
mountainpharm,

How did the match go?


Dave

Uncle Mike
November 22, 2009, 05:28 PM
I guess all of this really boils down to personal preference. To me stock fit is extremely important for me to shoot well. If I put a scope on a Lux I would always be straining to shoot it. Others may well have entirely different results.

Stock fit, as far as repeatable accuracy is concerned, is of the utmost importance!
It is important for 'anybody' to shoot well.

The stock on the Lux does drop off too much for proper cheek weld when utilizing optics.
That's not an exaggeration, that is a fact!

With the rear sight base as tall as it is, the majority of scopes will be required to reside in high, or even worse, double or extra high mounts.

And assuming we are talking of the human physique, I think 'anybody' would strain to use the wonderful Lux with it having optics in place.

stubbicatt
November 24, 2009, 07:02 AM
I have two CZ rifles with the drop comb bavarian style stock and have mounted scopes on both of them. I have no issues with it, other than I removed the rear sights from each of them in order to accommodate the ocular lens bell of the scope. One is the 452 FS, the other the 527 LUX.

This renders the irons unusable.

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