H&R; Totally Worthless?????


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AKElroy
November 5, 2009, 08:12 PM
In July, I posted with pride buying my 8 year old son his first deer rifle; an H&R .243 Win. Obviously, it will be awhile for him to grow into the hunter he so fervently awaits, so this was a gun for him to grow into, being youth sized & mild recoiling.

It came with a worthless Simmons 8-point scope, and refused to zero. I blamed the scope, ordered a Nikon Prostaff w/ Weaver Top Mount rings & mounted it last night.

I also switched from 100gr to 85gr, and headed to the range. 40 rounds later, with plenty of time to cool between shots, this rifle still shoots 7" to 8" groups. Very dissapointing, and I am looking to toss it on Gunbroker.

I am looking for an innexpensive (relatively) single-shot or youth sized bolt in .243 or 7mm-08 that is DEAD NUTS ACCURATE.

Suggestions are welcome for either the dissapointing H&R, or for the next purchase once I move on. I will NOT be including the Nikon with the combo; the Simmons goes back on for the sale.

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mljdeckard
November 5, 2009, 08:17 PM
I saw some Savage .243s at Walmart that had me scratching my head.

I would contact H&R to see what they say.

ar24095
November 5, 2009, 09:35 PM
Take a look at the Ruger compact models. I started my son off with one in 7mm08.

plumberroy
November 5, 2009, 09:35 PM
call H&R before remington bought them they would fix that kind of stuff , I don't know now. My 45-70 handi will put 3 shots toughing at 100 yards if I due my part
Roy

52grain
November 5, 2009, 09:36 PM
Anyone of these will be fine:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_SPS.asp

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/youth/model_seven.asp

http://www.savagearms.com/11FYCAK.htm (if you don't mind a muzzle brake)

http://www.savagearms.com/11fyxp3.htm (Check to see what the scope is on this before you buy it)

Gregaw
November 5, 2009, 10:20 PM
I have an H&R 12GA with a rifled barrel for deer and my brother in law had a .223 H&R for a while. Both of them shot very well. No problems. Many deer and prairie dogs have fallen to their true flying projectiles! I would contact the manufacturer. Hope it works out for you.

rangerruck
November 5, 2009, 10:22 PM
single shot break actions are not condusive for anyone; unless you know their secrets!!! Tee hee hee...
So here is what you do, first off,make sure it is freefloated, sand out the crap big time, of the forend of the stock ,whether you think it needs it or not.
Then, usually that front screw/takedown/swivel, attaches it tightly to the forestock- you will need to expirement on how tight this is; I had a rossi, that liked the front swivel so loose, it would free spin!!!! you could flick it with your finger, like spinning a coin on a table top.
Lastly and most important, the front rest, sandbag usually- put it RIGHT UNDER THE HINGE, or as close to the trigger guard as you can get. this will make sure no torque or stress is applied to the bbl as you fire, and when you move your front rest , you move and change the stress and the torque applied, to diff lengths up and down the bbl, where ever you put the rest. so your groups, will never look like groups, and you will get a lot of stringing, mostly vertical. so if you shoot offhand, once you figure out how it likes the front takedown screw, allways put your front hand, right against the trigger guard. I bet if you shoot offhand at 50 yds, you may get some better groups right away, without doing the other stuff first.
Lastly , if you wanna drop a couple hundred bucks into it; there is a dude over on RFC I believe, who takes nef's and h/r's and first does trigger jobs on them, very well I may add, then takes off your bbl, trues and squares it up to the receiver, then threads it, then makes a bbl stub from yours about 3 inches long, actually that part is first before the threading and truing.
and then screws your remaining bbl, into the bbl stub.
Accuracy suddenly becomes astonishing, as in 1 hole groups...

rangerruck
November 5, 2009, 10:24 PM
if you wanna go new rifle, the Weatherby at 399 is double tough to beat; also a Savage, the new thompson/centers are double tough, and don't overlook the new marlins, getting rave reviews, especially the trigger.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 5, 2009, 11:15 PM
On a budget, get a Stevens 200, T/C Venture, or Marlin XL7 - it will be accurate, 98% chance. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I too would have guessed scope in that situation. But likely you can get it down to 3" group if you test other ammo types and find what it likes.

rangerruck speaks wisely too about forend pressure.

AKElroy
November 5, 2009, 11:29 PM
But likely you can get it down to 3" group if you test other ammo types and find what it likes.

It does not like 100gr powerpoints or 85gr federal premium. It holds perfect windage, cold barrel puts a round nicely on target, next round after 2 or 3 minutes is 4' high; third round, 4" low. I think it has something to do with the heat effecting the weaver rail. Or, as an earlier post suggests, pressure on the handguard. The bolt holding it in place is just tight enough to not work loose, and my bench placement had it free resting in the same position on the bag for every shot.

rbernie
November 5, 2009, 11:46 PM
This happens on occasion, that a single-shot won't shoot. I had an Encore that would do sub-MOA with one barrel but was a complete dog with another. I have a handful of H&Rs and they all shoot acceptably well. I'm sorry that you got the lemon. :(

I have heard it said that H&Rs are sensitive to the barrel rubbing against the breechface of the receiver. This is usually manifested with bluing rubbing off unevenly on the breech of the barrel. Does your rifle show this kind of sign?

The bolt holding it in place is just tight enough to not work loose, and my bench placement had it free resting in the same position on the bag for every shot. More important than being consistent in how you bench it is in keeping the bags/rest under the hinge pin. Putting the bags under the forearm will cause variations that will prove vexing to chase.

janobles14
November 5, 2009, 11:48 PM
i would second the motion to call them. i bought my wife an h&r .243 and it will now put them in an inch at 100 easily. the only thing was that the holes for the scope mount were off center. i just happened to notice it and asked my gunsmith and he said that its not uncommon in those rifles. i sent it back and they replaced it with one that was just fine.

AKElroy
November 5, 2009, 11:57 PM
More important than being consistent in how you bench it is in keeping the bags/rest under the hinge pin. Putting the bags under the forearm will cause variations that will prove vexing to chase.

Vexing and expensive. I put $80 worth of federal premiums thorugh it today. I have read this several times regarding the hinge pin. Even if that cured it at the bench, it will not cure it in the field. I should be able to use the forend for it's intended purpose without opening groups 8".

AKElroy
November 6, 2009, 12:02 AM
Does your rifle show this kind of sign?

Nope--Looks uniform. It only has 150 or so rounds throught it, though.

Steve Marshall
November 6, 2009, 08:38 AM
Have you tried the iron sights?

rbernie
November 6, 2009, 08:47 AM
Even if that cured it at the bench, it will not cure it in the field. I should be able to use the forend for it's intended purpose without opening groups 8". In the field, your off hand is dampening the recoil. On the bench, you're bouncing the rifle HARD onto the rest during recoil.

BTDT. They shoot more consistently when 'bagged under the hinge pin and they shoot just as consistently when held offhand.

moooose102
November 6, 2009, 08:53 AM
yep, call h&r, there is something wrong. i have a 223 handi-rifle that will put 5 holes inside of an inch and a half @ 100 yards (and that is with ME shooting it! and CHEAP ammo). they definitly should stand behind their product.

NCsmitty
November 6, 2009, 08:57 AM
Have you tried the iron sights?

Steve Marshall seems to have posed a sensible idea to eliminate a possible issue with the scope setup.
Try the irons at 50yds, if you have them. That will tell you if the barrel is junk or if you have a scope/mount problem.



NCsmitty

DennyF
November 6, 2009, 09:05 AM
BTDT. They shoot more consistently when 'bagged under the hinge pin and they shoot just as consistently when held offhand.

Yep. I often see people shooting scoped NEF/H&Rs from the bench with the forearm or barrel rested on a front rest. It doesn't usually work very well. And agreed on the offhand comments. The original poster might be surprised if he just fires 3 shots from offhand? If your shooting range has a roof, try steadying an elbow or shoulder on a post.

Took me a bit ot tinkering, but I eventually got my NEF heavy barrel 223 to shoot well from a Harris bipod. Swapped-out the scrawny OEM fore end and refitted a beefier one that came on another NEF. It always did drive tacks, properly-rested on a Caldwell front rest.

That same lore applies for shooting Remington pumps from a rest: Lay the receiver on the bag, not the fore end or barrel.

AKElroy
November 6, 2009, 11:09 AM
Have you tried the iron sights?

I would, but it does not have iron sights. Of course, sighting down a smooth barrel would likely yield similar results!

cat9x
November 6, 2009, 11:47 AM
I'd send it back to the manufacturer before I started doing "custom" modifications as others here have suggested.

Fremmer
November 6, 2009, 12:35 PM
Sorry about the new rifle! That would be really frustrating.

Part of me wants to tell you to send it back to NEA to see if they can fix it. If they'll pay for the postage, then I'd definitely send it back to them.

The other part of me says that the gun isn't worth enough to mess with, and that after you try a quick fix (suggested above that you can do yourself) and make sure the scope isn't mounted improperly, you should take it to the store for trade-in credit toward a new gun that you find on sale (like a Remington or Savage). It'll cost more, but you'll get a better gun that'll hopefully shoot a lot better. I know you'll take a bath on that NEA, and you'll have to spend more, but be done with it and get that kid a better gun.

Good luck to you and your son. Keep trying!

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