[Desertdog]

GEEZER PULLS HIS GUN ON MUGGER

By JAMIE SCHRAM

November 5, 2003 -- A pistol-packing, 80-year-old Bronx man was arrested on gun charges after he tried to turn the tables on a mugger who beat him and stole his Social Security money, authorities said yesterday.
Feisty Lester Campbell - a retired security guard who cops said was carrying a hidden, unlicensed .38-caliber handgun - cashed his $262 Social Security check near his home on East 139th Street in Mott Haven at 10 a.m. Monday.

A husky 6-foot-tall mugger followed him into his building and onto an elevator.

As the elevator headed to his floor, the man pounced on Campbell, throwing him to the floor and hitting him in the head and body.

As the thug rifled his elderly victim's pockets for the money, Campbell whipped out his handgun, cops said.

His attacker managed to wrest the pistol away and fired a single shot, which lodged in the wall of the elevator.

When the elevator stopped, the assailant fled. Cops were called to the building and Campbell told them he had a second gun in his apartment.

Campbell was charged with two misdemeanor counts of criminal possession of a weapon. :cuss:

He was treated for facial and body injuries.

[OF]

"The urban entrepreneur was later given a medal for bravely revealing this dangerous gun-carrying lunatic so he could be brought to justice."

Gag.

- Gabe

[Standing Wolf]

Campbell was charged with two misdemeanor counts of criminal possession of a weapon.

Only in England!

Oh. Wait. New York.

The founding fathers would weep.

[Moparmike]

You know, we should start a collection to help him pay for these stupid charges. Where was that quote about "laws repugnant to the constitution are not to be followed"...

[ksnecktieman]

I do not think that should be 2 misdemeanor charges...... they should only charge him one time, with a "missdapunk", and instead of fine or community service he should be sentenced to fire 300 rounds at the range.

[tyme]

MPM, It's a quote from Marbury vs Madison, rather ironic considering Marshall was instrumental in increasing federal power. He only applied judicial review once... the next time was Taney in 1857 (or was that the third? I just had a nagging thought that Taney used judicial review once before). To be accurate, it doesn't say "...not to be followed," but says "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."

I found this while trying to locate the aforementioned, possibly imaginary pre-Dred-Scott use of judicial review by Taney, and it looks quite cool:
Restoring the Lost Constitution (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0691115850/)

review by Sanford Levinson (of "Embarrassing Second Amendment" fame):
I have recently read the manuscript of Randy's forthcoming book, Restoring the Lost Constitution (Princeton University Press), and it is terrific. It is the best defense of a libertarian reading of the Constitution that I have read, and it also presents a thoughtful and nuanced defense of originalism. I can't say that he has persuaded me on the latter, not least because originalism just doesn't describe our practice of constitutional law. As for the libertarian argument, there is much to wrestle with. No one interested in constitutional theory should fail to read (and ponder) the book. It has the virtue, incidentally, of being remarkably well written, so it can also be assigned to one's students without fear that they will feel lost.

If that makes it seem too esoteric, take a look at the book-reportish review on amazon (see link above):
The U.S. Constitution found in school textbooks and under glass in Washington is not the one enforced today by the Supreme Court. In Restoring the Lost Constitution, Randy Barnett argues that since the nation's founding, but especially since the 1930s, the courts have been cutting holes in the original Constitution and its amendments to eliminate the parts that protect liberty from the power of government. From the Commerce Clause, to the Necessary and Proper Clause, to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, to the Privilege or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Supreme Court has rendered each of these provisions toothless. In the process, the written Constitution has been lost.
...

[Iain]

Only in England!

Love the way you say that as if pretty much the same laws don't apply in Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, no its just the evil English who have those gun laws and subjugate the rest of the British Isles by being nasty mean and evil - can anyone say 'perhaps it's time for a regime change in England'.

rant over.

Back on topic - note that the attacker managed to wrest the gun off our Lester and fire a shot, perhaps Lester is actually lucky to not have been killed with his own gun. Of course the intentions of the attacker before the gun was pulled are not known, so perhaps Lester somewhat flukily saved his own life.

[2dogs]

What would liberals do?

They'd march on the court house and threaten to burn down the city if the guy was convicted and sent to jail (that is if he were a cop killer, or rapist or anyone other than a citizen protecting himself).

What will gun owners do?:what: :uhoh:

[Leatherneck]

St Johns:
Sadly, many Yanks believe that England=U.K.
So sad, but true. :mad:

TC
TFL Survivor

[Rusher]

By Marcus Solis
(Bronx-WABC, November 5, 2003) — A mugger in the Bronx got quite a surprise when the 80-year-old man he attacked in an elevator pulled out a .38 caliber handgun. There was a struggle, a shot was fired, and now the elderly victim is being criminally charged.

Marcus Solis is in the Mott Haven section of the Bronx where he talked with the man.

Lester Campbell says the gun belonged to his mother, and that it was passed onto him when she died. And he said he would carry it with him when he went to cash checks.

Campbell had just cashed his Social Security check and gone to the supermarket near his house, when the mugger followed him into the elevator of his building. What the mugger didn't realize was that the octogenarian was packing heat.

And after Campbell pulled out his gun, a fierce struggle ensued.

Lester Campbell, Mugging Victim: "He tried to keep the barrel away from him, twisting and turning. And when I was going to pull it, see, I lose some grip. And that's when he started twisting and twisting."

The mugger had knocked Campbell to the ground and ripped his pants while grabbing for his wallet. The retired security guard fired one shot that hit the side of the elevator, and richotted up into the ceiling.

The elevator stopped on the third floor where the suspect ran out, and Campbell cried out for help. The thief made off with $262 in Social Security money. And now Campbell's eye is bloodshot, and his cheek is purple from injuries he received in the assault.

Police however arrested Campbell and charged him with misdemeanor criminal possesion of a weapon. While he admits he knew the gun was unlicensed, Campbell insists he did nothing wrong.

Lester Campbell: "He had no business doing that. I was minding my business. I don't bother nobody."

Ernest McKenzie, Building Resident: "The way I feel, if he didn't have the gun probably something would happen to him, serious. And at the same time, he has to be licensed."

Police confiscated the gun, along with another one in the apartment. So Campbell was cited for two counts of misdemeanor criminal possession of a weapon, and was given a desk appearance ticket. He'll have a court appearance next month.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically arrest and disarm the old guy.......now he is easy pickins.....that is justice:fire: :cuss:
:banghead:

[Graystar]

It's too bad it didn't end better...with a dead perp or at least having saved his money.

[whitebear]

A somewhat different spin on the story can be found here:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_110503_elderlygun.html

According to this story: The mugger had knocked Campbell to the ground and ripped his pants while grabbing for his wallet. The retired security guard fired one shot that hit the side of the elevator, and richotted up into the ceiling.

The elevator stopped on the third floor where the suspect ran out, and Campbell cried out for help. The thief made off with $262 in Social Security money. And now Campbell's eye is bloodshot, and his cheek is purple from injuries he received in the assault.

Police however arrested Campbell and charged him with misdemeanor criminal possesion of a weapon. While he admits he knew the gun was unlicensed, Campbell insists he did nothing wrong.

So, perhaps the thug DIDN'T wrest the gun away from Mr. Campbell, as the story goes on to say:Police confiscated the gun, along with another one in the apartment. So Campbell was cited for two counts of misdemeanor criminal possession of a weapon...
It sounds as though Mr Campbell perhaps prevented further harm to himself, at least from the thug.

Now he just has to worry about those who are supposed to protect him...

[Langenator]

When, oh when, is somebody with some resources going to challenge the NYC gun laws? What part of "keep and BEAR arms" isn't clear?

[Erich]

"I have five dollars for each of you." -- Bernhard Goetz.

[MuzzleBlast]

The retired security guard fired one shot that hit the side of the elevator, and richotted up into the ceiling. Reckon he meant 'ricocheted'? Is looking up a word in the dictionary too much trouble for this guy?

[Kentucky Rifle]

You have NO IDEA how much it pisses me off when the VICTIM is punished!!!!!!

KR

[Sven]

He'll probably get off with a slap on the wrist.

[Gus Dddysgrl]

bad guy-lucky

old guy-I feel sorry for him.

laws-STUPID

me-not a happy camper. Enrage citizen is more like it. :cuss: :banghead: :fire: :cuss: :banghead: :fire:

[Bill Hook]

many Yanks believe that England=U.K.

Politically, doesn't it? Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland all have their own Parliaments, but the English Parliament determines national policy for them all.

[obiwan1]

that there was a pro 2A public relations firm that could/would take that story and really punch it up for public consumption. The ONLY way things in NY will ever change is with a public groundswell. We need to take a page out of the Dem/Anti playbook and really hype this story. We need to shove it in their faces:evil:

[AJ Dual]

Love the way you say that as if pretty much the same laws don't apply in Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, no its just the evil English who have those gun laws and subjugate the rest of the British Isles by being nasty mean and evil - can anyone say 'perhaps it's time for a regime change in England'.

Yes, we say "England" the way many here and abroad say "America" Even though America consists of Canada and Mexico as well... I suppose there's great excuse for saying America though, since it's actually in our name, U.S.A. and not in the words Mexico or Canada.

I'm sure that 'Britian, U.K., and England' all have different shades of meaning there but it's just not quite as obvious to us across the pond.

I wonder how much animosity we'd face in the world if none of our political positions and policy were different, but whenever we wrote or opened our mouths "American myopia" regarding geography or terminoligy was absent.

I can imagine it's kind of hard to have a friendly conversation with a Scot when you've already ticked him off by refering to the entire Isle as England.

I sure know that if someone off-handedly refered to Wisconsin as Illinois, I'd be immediately :scrutiny:

[gunsmith]

They drink way to much
tea
Pay exorbitant tax.
and are always being asked "are you Australian?":neener:

As far as this week's NYCity outrage,guess why I don't live there.
notice though that he is getting a misdeamor,he could easily get a felony.
flippin liberals!

[Horsesense]

If the old guy lived in Gubrmnt Housing, he will be evicted.

“Officer, he pulled this gun on me and I took it away from him, because I am against evil guns.”

[Nightfall]

See, this is how you fight crime!

First step, you make stupid laws that really only disarm the law-abiding, honest citizen.

Second, you punish people for defending their lives with the super-evil tool of defense you've banned.

Third, you broadcast it so that other citizens learn to fear defending their lives from criminals. This also has the dual effect of assuring criminals that even if they do run across an eeeeevil gun owner who tries to fight back, the government will step in and protect the innocent little mugger from having to operate in a dangerous work environment.

Thus, thieves, rapists, murders, and more can safely play in the new, (citizen owned only/criminals exempt) gun free utopia! Yay!

:fire: :banghead: :cuss:

[RobW]

This is exactly the method to subdue us worthless serfs. We are mere milk cows to provide for our aristocracy, who shamlessly raise their "wages" themselves. Not a big difference compared with the mid-ages.

You think your vote count? Look to Nevada: after years of discussion, "we, the PEOPLE" voted TWO TIMES with over 70% FOR an amendment to the NV constitution that requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate AND the House to raise taxes. The so called "Supreme Court" overruled that, showing clearly where the place for serfs are. :barf:

So, give up every hope to change or even revoke any anti-gun/anti-self-defense law. Politicos fear nothing more than free people.

Pessimistic? No, just recognizing reality!

[4v50 Gary]

In prosecuting the senior, society is promoting victimhood.

[peashooter]

The victim would not have been charged if it had happened in Tennessee.
By state law you cannot be charged for unlawful possession of a handgun if the shooting is otherwise justified.
Another reason to love this state.

[Sportcat]

peashooter... that actually sounds like a good law to me too!

[Hot brass]

Liberal crap, blame the victim:fire:

[Cosmoline]

If the goblin had been shot, the cops would have arrested the victim for murder. This is NYC we're talking about. It's not even remotely free. You are either cop or sheeple there. It's been like that for centuries.

[Mr. Bombastic]

Love the way you say that as if pretty much the same laws don't apply in Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, no its just the evil English who have those gun laws and subjugate the rest of the British Isles by being nasty mean and evil - can anyone say 'perhaps it's time for a regime change in England'.

So England doesn't subjugate the rest of the British Isles? So why does England have direct control over three other independent countries then?

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't know why this sort of event makes people mad. The geezer knew the guns were illegally possessed as the laws have been around for quite some time. So long before the geezer was ever assaulted, he was in violation of the law. He knew that when he carried the weapon for self defense, as he did for cashing his check, that if some event occurred, the gun would be an issue since it was unlicensed. I am sure his reasoning was that he would worry about gun possession laws if he ever had to use the gun to save his own life. He used the gun, it was discovered, and now he faces those charges.

What is the big deal? He knew what he was doing and knew he was in violation of the law. If he didn't like the law, then he should have moved to someplace more gun friendly.

These articles keep coming up time after time and yet people on the forum seem surprised that folks in NY and Chicago who are in illegal possession of guns get charged for the possession as a result of some event where they used the gun.

You rolls your dice and you takes your chances when you possess illegal guns in such places.

[jimpeel]

Then, by your post, people who live in districts with draconian firearms laws have a higher duty to the law than they have to their own survival. They are required, by law, to allow themselves to have crimes perpetreted upon themselves. It is only after the commission of crimes against them that they come under the protection of the law; but only as long as they have complied with the laws which require their victimization.

This is what is called "neatly pigeonholed".

[Orthonym]

You'll get no argument from me. We Scotch-Irish Anglo-Celtic types have had to suffer from the false malicious scurrilous irresponsible calumny heaped and piled upon us by the evil Sassenach (Not to mention William the Bastard and his Norman ilk) for nigh on two millennia now! How long, oh Lord, how long must we suffer!


Edit: The English gave their tribe's name to the country, but I think they're mostly gone; it's those divinely condemned Saxons who are the main troublemakers!

[Standing Wolf]

The law in the state of New York is no less criminal than the robber.

[sch40]

yup.

You've got to watch your back somehow if you're an inmate of New York. Too bad you have to watch out for the guards as well.

:) :uhoh:

[Don Galt]

There's no such thing as an illegal gun. The law in new york is what is illegal, not this old guys gun.

The poor guy had two crimes perpetrated against him that day...

[hammer4nc]

I don't know why this sort of event makes people mad.
Because most people can't just callously ignore the injustice in this type of enforcement action?

If he didn't like the law, then he should have moved to someplace more gun friendly.
Ditto previous response. Would it be a safe bet that this comment was generated by one whose paycheck comes in a blue envelope?

[ksnecktieman]

I think he should be charged with a "missdamugger", and be sentenced to fire 100 rounds every saturday for a month, and THEN have to clean his own pistol:)

[Logistar]

I think he should be charged with a "missdamugger", and be sentenced to fire 100 rounds every saturday for a month, and THEN have to clean his own pistol I AGREE! :) :)

In fact, I think citizens should be "charged" for NOT defending themselves. Might send the RIGHT message to the muggars, robbers, etc.

[Don Galt]

Blue Envelope paycheck means?

UN Employee?
Cop?
Federal Employee?
Local or State Government Employee?

Haven't heard the term before....

[buttrap]

Well you have too keep in mind that this is the same city that charged a gal for killing a guy that had just raped,killed and tossed out the like 6 story window the body of her roommate just before she opened the apartment door. Shot and killed the guy when he went after her with a knife..Bummer no permit for having a weapon in her living room. The NRA did put up a defence team and the city backed down really fast too.

[Publicola]

Dave at Pervasive Light has set up a defense fund for Mr. Campbell

http://www.pervasivelight.com/blog/archives/00000100.html

Also look here for a round up of some bloggers tearing apart the situation

http://publicola.blogspot.com/2003_11_02_publicola_archive.html#106819679324478777

[cz40va]

Let's hope the NRA will also get involved in this, which they probably will. They generally seem to get involved in NYC's mis-justice.
I really feel for the man, is he supposed to just let the robber kill him?

[ScottsGT]

Sean Hannity is stepping up to bat. He has already started a fund raiser on his radio show for this guys defense and to replace the cash the slime took from him.

[Tamara]

Duplicate threads merged.

[t-stox]

hey guys I live within 30 mins of NYC and let me tell you, HE GETTING OFF LUCKY one could say FLUCKY ;) the man could easily be charged with a felony which is what happens to most people who carry concealed without a permit in NY. I think that it's up to the DA office. I think he got the measly misdemeanor because of his age and the circumstances. I think it would look bad for liberal laws if this was a felony charge and morepeople would get into an uproar. C'est la vie :rolleyes:

[Orthonym]

I think it USED to be that way in Merry Olde England. The King's men would come and get you, and maybe hang you, if you were insufficiently energetic in hunting down a robber. I think that's what was originally meant by "misprision of a felony". No cops back then, just me and you, and I'm not so sure about you.:D