[Bravo11]

I've noticed that soldiers are shouldering their weapons up high.
The buttplate seems to be just barely against the shoulder and sometimes on top of the shoulder. What is the reason for this? It seems like it might be easier to lift the weapon up to your line of sight instead of bending your head down to the line of sight.
Thanks

[DigitalWarrior]

It gives and EXTREMELY tight shooting position with battle slings.

[Nightcrawler]

It gives and EXTREMELY tight shooting position with battle slings.

Please explain. Half the pictures of troops I've seen doing this have a regular weapon sling just hanging down.

[Double Naught Spy]

The tight shooting position is correct, but there are some functional reasons as well. If you are wearing full body armor as they are with things like the neck and throat protection and just general bulkiness of the gear, it is a lot harder to crane your head over and down on a normally shouldered position for rifles. Similarly, with NBC gear such as gas masks, it is about impossible to crane your head over to a regular shooting position to see the sights.

Regardless of the gear issues, it can be rather silly to have to bring your head and eyes down to the rifle when you can bring the rifle up to the head and eyes. This is a lot less physically taxing when shooting in a vertical position such as standing or kneeling.

Given this information, I don't know why the military does not have stocks adjusted accordingly or have a flip adapter to do this, sort of like being able to collapse a CAR stock. Pull length on a CAR stock can be adjusted, so why not stock elevation for the shoulder?

Of course, the fixed angle of the stock is versatile and the recoil of the M16 isn't bad and so it is not necessary to have full contact between the stock and the shoulder as would normally be done.

[Pilgrim]

I shoot both rifle and shotgun with this method. Rather than bend my head down to align my eyes with the sights, I bring the weapon up to eye level. I think it is a faster way to shoot and there is no increase in "felt' recoil with only half the stock contacting my shoulder.

Pilgrim

[Bartholomew Roberts]

They do this because the A2 stock is too long in the stance they teach for CQB. If you take up a nice NRA High Power offhand position, the A2 has a nice length.

If you take a squared off fighting stance and then add layers of web gear and body armor, the A2 stock is too long and you have to move the stock up off your shoulder to get the nose-to-charging handle hold taught in the military.

Check out Pat Rogers' "The Fighting Stance and Length of Pull" article in SWAT magazine. It has a good discussion of many of these issues.

[Langenator]

I haven't spent a lot of time looking at pictures of troops in action, but the nose to charging handle method isn't neccessary if they've got the M68 CQB sights.

[gun-fucious]

doing the special forces shuffle
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=588303

[TarpleyG]

Guy in the middle is doing it properly...

GT

[rock jock]

In that picture, you will notice that all those guys have a forward vertical grip to further stabilize the weapon during FA fire. If you were to use that stance, I would think the vertical grip would really come into its own. Personally, I don't find the recoil of the 5.56 that great, but it is still there and must be controlled for fast followup shots.

[4v50 Gary]

It's called the Universal Shooting Position. It allows for greater peripheral vision by the shooter, less strain on the neck (since the gun is brought up higher and the head is canted less) and is used for shotgun, rifle or sub-gun (hence USP).

BTW, note the body position too. It faces the target and while it offers a larger target zone, it also takes better advantage of the vest. The USP also allows for greater mobility as you can move & engage simultaneously.

[gun-fucious]

grasshopper in training

[KC]

re: grasshopper

I know I'm merely displaying my ignorance here, but why does the guy have a cartrige in his ear?

[WT]

I've never worn the new "fritz" helmet. I gather it doesn't move around the head like the old steel pot. Does it interfere with sighting, maybe jam into the back of the neck?

[Andrew Wyatt]

the suspension of the frits helmets is horrible. it moves around lots.

[jwmoore]

I know I'm merely displaying my ignorance here, but why does the guy have a cartrige in his ear?

I suspect it's for lack of proper ear plugs.

~W

[gun-fucious]

it was discovered in the jungles of the Philipines
that some lots of Q3131 had poor primer sealant
thus the ear wax method of primer sealing was borne

:evil:

either that, or its a field expedient ear plug

i kinda doubt its as good as a peltor

[curt]

I know I'm merely displaying my ignorance here, but why does the guy have a cartrige in his ear?

It strikes fear into the heart of the enemy .."MY GOD! HE"S GOT BULLETS COMING OUT OF HIS HEAD!"

[El Tejon]

gun, putting cartridges in ears is 3d World muy macho stuff. I blame American movies and gun rags (however, I blame gun rags for fires, earthquakes, hurricans, floods as well).

Moreover, it is BRASSHOPPER, not grasshopper.:D

meg, are you talking about shooting positions as everyone assumes or are you referencing "cross-body" carry???:confused:

If shooting, it's about the LOP, gear, body armour and the SF Wing Chunny stance they use. If it's about carrying (on guard or on patrol), it's about getting the weight off your biceps, especially the pig.

[Checkman]

I was taught the nose to charging handle method seventeen years ago and I still do it. The simplefact is most soldiers have no firearms experience before they enlist and do what they are taught. The other crazything is that more then once I've seen the lid from South Boston outshoot the famer's kid from North Dakota. Bad habits I guess. They also don't get to browse through the many cataloges that are out there. They take what they are issued. I've seen footage and photos of Israeli soldiers also using the same position. In the past few years the U.S. Army has been adopting some of the Israelis ideas - maybe this is one of them?

[Bravo11]

El Tejon,
I'm talking about shooting position.
ie..When a troop is moving through clearing a building his weapon
will be up high. I'm trying to find a pic now that shows what I'm talking about. I can never find a picture when I'm looking for one.

[gun-fucious]

close up

[QuickDraw]

Re,Re:Grasshopper in training
My mom always told to clean my ears or potatoes would grow
in them!If only I could get .223 rounds to grow out of my ears...

QuickDraw

[buttrap]

I just never did get that nose in the cocking lever idea,always seemed like a training gimic to me. That or a silly idea of how look like you are shooting a M-1 with a M-16...Its just a drill to get a good cheek weld on the stock on the target range for a dufus to qualify in 20 rounds....

[thefitzvh]

i certainly hope you aren't refering to any american servicemembers as doofus'
(how DO you pluralize that anyways? would it be doofii?)

James

[blades67]

i certainly hope you aren't refering to any american servicemembers as doofus'

James, having been a U.S. Army Infantryman I can assure you that the military is well stocked with personnel that may only be described as a dufus/doofuss and/or Gomer.

[thefitzvh]

having been a US Army infantryman myself, I can assure you that if said doofus' NCOs were doing their jobs, he either became a.) not a doofus, or b.) a civilian, pretty damn quick

James

[benEzra]

I've noticed with some short-stocked, light-recoiling rifles (mini-14, SAR-1), the high-buttstock position is more comfortable, quick to acquire, and gives you a better view by allowing you to keep your head more upright (very helpful for us folks with glasses). Don't try this position with an M44, though . . .