[FullEffect1911]

I just noticed on Midway usa's website that Hornady will be selling a 125 grain .357 magnum critical defense loading. This looks like it could be another very good offering for the .357 magnum.

Does anyone have any other information about this other then it's existence? I would love to know what kind of velocities it will loaded to.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=240848

[Oro]

I do know that Hornady publishes ballistic data for their factory loaded ammunition on their web site. A good bet is that it will show up there as soon as it's available. It's not there now, but their 125 gr. XTP is reported as 1500fps from an 8" barrel (test barrel or revolver is not stated). I would imagine the FTP will be the same as it's the bullet that is changing and the powder load is likely going to stay the same.

There is an article on the development of the FTX from the Leverevolution round in a recent American Rifleman - either this month or last.

[bigeye]

At this point, the three gun magazines I get have all reviewed the Hornady ammunition and have felt it is a good load. Have yet to see a 'published' bad review. It appears Hornady did their research and hit it on this one. Again, I stress 'published' rather than the rumor mill.

[mesinge2]

It is not up on their website.

hmmm....

[mdelmic]

Actually I just saw that www.ProAmmo.com (http://www.ProAmmo.com) is selling Hornady 357 Magnum Critical Defense Handgun ammunition at a good price.

here is the link:
http://www.proammo.com/p-1314-hornady-critical-defense-ammunition-357-magnum-125-grain-flex-tip-expanding-box-of-25.aspx (http://www.proammo.com/p-1314-hornady-critical-defense-ammunition-357-magnum-125-grain-flex-tip-expanding-box-of-25.aspx)

check it out.

Sam

[mesinge2]

I sent this e-mail to Hornady:

Midway Usa has this item up for sale starting on November 11 2009:

"Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 357 Magnum 125 Grain Flex Tip
Expanding Box of 25"

However, I could not find this product on your site. Is your company
planning a release of the Critical Defense Ammunition for the 357
Magnum?

I already carry the 9mm and the 38 SPL offerings and would be interested
in the 357 mag offering.

They Responded:

Thank you for your inquiry. Our Item #90500 357Mag 125gr FTX Critical
Defense Ammo will be a New Product for next year. We suggest that you
place an Order with them for when [we] do a shipment of this Item to them.
Thank you again.

[FullEffect1911]

Not exactly an informative response by Hornady. Also however not terrible, at least they confirmed it.

[KBintheSLC]

The more I look at this new bullet design, the more I like it. I bet the 357 will be a great personal defense load. I am waiting anxiously for them to release heavier bullets in .38 spl and 9mm. I would like to see a 125/158g in 38, and a 124/147g in 9mm. Since the round is designed to expand consistently at a wide range of velocities, it seems perfect for heavier and slower loadings.

[LWYM425]

Will some one please educate me on how you can tell these are not 357 sig. Is it just because it says "magnum"? The picture looks as though those are rounds for a semi auto.

[rd2007]

so what about the LEVERevolution? http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=760
I will not pretend to be an expert at all, but something that is ideal for hunting should also be ideal for home defense, right? Ideal for hunting means accurate with a quick kill right? That is exactly what you would want with an intruder as well, or at least that is what I would want if I was ever unfortunate enough to face that situation. I bought some about a week ago and there is minimal flash and the recoil was a little better than the Monarch .357 rounds I picked up. I think looking at those little red points would be a little intimidating as well.

[MrTuffPaws]

but something that is ideal for hunting should also be ideal for home defense, right? Ideal for hunting means accurate with a quick kill right?

No. Hunting rounds are designed to minimize soft tissue damage, which isn't what you want for HD/SD.

[Eightball]

What's the main difference between this and the LeverEvolution?

[mesinge2]

The pointy shape? :D

[FullEffect1911]

What's the main difference between this and the LeverEvolution?

I think this would fall in line with the differences.

The LEVERevolution would give controlled expansion and deep penetration out of carbine length barrels used for deer sized game.

The Critical defense would have much more aggressive expansion and be designed to penetrate 12"-14" in ballistic gel when shot out of typical length barrel (3" or 4" for the .38 and .357). It should also not be loaded to any higher pressure/velocity then necessary, to accomplish the desired goals in order to preserve follow up shots.



I also just noticed Midway changed their date to 3/12/2010.

[rd2007]

so then a LEVERevolution would not be good for HD? It uses FTX bullets according to the Hornady site.

[Balrog]

I think you are wasting your money on these. The plain old 125g JHP by winchester, federal, and remington have outstanding street records. You really are not going to be able to improve on them significantly.

For some cartridges, premium rounds are a benefit, but for 357... not so much.

[Kernel]

picture looks as though those are rounds for a semi auto
Those are stock photos. I'd guess Hornady dosen't have the new art work up yet.

[scythefwd]

Will some one please educate me on how you can tell these are not 357 sig. Is it just because it says "magnum"? The picture looks as though those are rounds for a semi auto.

The .357 sig is a necked down .40 case. The rounds there were tapered, but are probably as Kernel thinks are stock photos. The word description is about the only thing we have to go by at this time. Those rounds pictured are most definitely not .357 sig.

[Aktarus]

Will some one please educate me on how you can tell these are not 357 sig. Is it just because it says "magnum"? The picture looks as though those are rounds for a semi auto.
The Cal.357 SIG was created to be used in WONDERNINES, like Cal. 9mm, while the 357 MAG is designed for revolvers. I have translated from the Italian "his story". I hope you manage to read it properly.

GAGE .357 SIG

The cartridge caliber .357 SIG is a partial derivative of the cartridge caliber .40 S & W (See item of it), originally conceived in the 80s and 90s of the twentieth century, but the market for the first time in 1994. More precisely, is the result of the efforts of SIG joint technical and research and development section of the Federal Cartridge Corporation, which previously had agreed to build a new cartridge, similar in size to the 9x19mm and .40 S & W, however, able to develop the same performance levels of a cartridge in caliber .357 Magnum with 125grs ball, fired from a weapon equipped with a cane (approx.) 50mm (2 ") long.

In other words, it was to create "... an impressive compromise ...", namely to create a very powerful cartridge but could however be contained in the shipment of a common semi-automatic pistol. In terms of construction, the .357 SIG is derived from the powder chamber of the cartridge .40 S & W (See a voice for) amended so as to accommodate a ball 9mm (.355 "). Of course, that, given the length of the cartridge case, implies that the angle of the shoulder (shoulder angle) is extremely acute. An important detail to point out is that, despite the name, caliber .357 SIG use common balls .355 "diameter (ie that of 9mm), and not balls from .357 "diameter as one might at first think. Clearly this is a huge advantage for both producers and for the recharge. Coming to dimensional data, a length of the cartridge (commercial) is 28.95 mm, as primers, despite the high power (or rather, kinetic energy of the mouth) are of the Small Pistol: excellent in that respect are the triggers production CCI or Federal. Other dimensional data of particular importance are the following:

- Bottom diameter = 10.77 mm
- Thickness = 1.40 mm pad
- Diameter of collar = 9.68 mm
- Length = 21.97 mm cartridge case
- Length of the cartridge case over the shoulder (typical) = 18.16 mm
- Length of the cartridge case under the shoulder (typical) = 16.48 mm
- Angle = 18 ° shoulder
- Total length cartridge finish (OAL) = 28.95 mm
- Diameter of bullet = 9.02 mm (.355 ")
- Pass lining (commercial) = 1 turn in 16 typical with all bullet weights available, although there are examples of weapons with different pitches


The passage is typical of rifling of 1 turn in 16 ", while the standard barrel is 4" (about 100mm), although there are examples of commercially arms with unequal length rods. Needless to say, like all the cartridges for semi-automatic weapons, even the .357 SIG from the best, in terms of reliability and ease of feeding, with Armored or balls, with regard to professional uses or defensive, with Armored hollow point bullets. From the practical point of view, one can say with certainty that a joint venture between Federal and SIG "... finally paid off ...", meaning that the cartridges are currently available in the market for this caliber can give the outputs identified in the laboratory. Particular attention needs to be asked by those who delight in the practice of charging housewife. First, it is advisable to start or shells VIRGIN (eg the excellent Starline), or from shells of excellent quality results (such as the aforementioned Federal). Then should not be forgotten that the collar of the cartridge in question is particularly short and must always be in excellent condition due to the fact that said cartridge (during cameratura) aligns with the chamber (headspacing) using the apical part of the collar as its fulcrum. For the same reason we tend not to use any crimping operation forced (hard-crimp), or to apply any type of edging (roll-crimp) even if mild. It 'then must avoid the shells with the collar too loose or elastic, in order to eliminate the root of any problem "... drop the ball ..." inside the cartridge case. And 'this is why you must use only good quality shells. In other words you can say that for the refill cartridges need to have a collar that is as rigid as possible. To avoid problems, you can use the matrix produced by the American industrial crimping LEE, specific for a bottle and cartridge cases found at the best armories. This matrix is specific to the shells bottleneck and make the proper crimping NOT affect the alignment (the cartridge) or the functioning of the weapon. Given this, we will now see the main charging information related to this interesting cartridge. For simplicity, we limit our analysis to the balls 115 and 125grs., Which are by far the most used and disseminated (at commercial or otherwise), making only an occasional jump to 147grs balls. :
According to many experts, national and international, the .357 SIG cartridge would present a significant similarity with a new cartridge made by WW, called 9x23mm + P. In fact, there are a number of technical issues that must be analyzed in depth before we can speak of real similarity. First, the .357 SIG is a munition created exclusively for law enforcement, while the 9x23mm ammunition is created exclusively for competition shooting dynamic sport. Diversa is also, however their origin. The .357 SIG cartridge case comes from the .40 S & W, while the 9x23mm is, by definition of its creators, "... a .38 SA remodeled over the 9x21mm cartridge case in order to eliminate all the problems of alignment and typical cameratura Cartridge cylindrical cartridge case ...". In addition, further detail the relative size (or rather, the total length), in fact, the .357 SIG is shorter than the 9x23mm, which allows you to use it in arms with standard chassis (NB this means that no problems to users with small hands or medium-small), while the 9x23mm requires shippers and chassis slightly modified (NB the cameratura of this caliber exists only in highly specialized custom weapons). Given this, the alleged assimilation between these two "new" calibers, supported by the press cycle, must be considered more theoretical than real.

[MillCreek]

So is this flex tip format similar to the old Geco Blitz Action Trauma bullets that were around back in the 80's?

[CZF]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/FTX9.gif

No, unlike the BAT that loses its cap and creates a cookie cutter effect.

The FTX ball of polymer acts to expand the bullet.
Reportedly, ever single time!

I like the stuff in my 9mm CZs, and have just picked up a box of the non plus P
FTX in .38 Special for my new Ruger LCR.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/CZ%20SP-01%20PHANTOM/P-07%20DUTY/FTX-MAG.jpg

[MillCreek]

CZF, thanks so much for the pictures. It makes it a lot clearer. Do you think that the flex tip makes for more reliable feeding in a pistol? The cavity does not look all that large at the tip, and I am wondering if the flex tip recreates a FMJ enough to have an effect on feeding.

[Aktarus]

Flex is the tip equal to a TC-FMJ. (Truncated Cone) If the ramp of the barrel has no defects, the cartridge is inserted properly. important is the extent of AOL. (maximum height of the cartridge)

[FullEffect1911]

The Hornady website is now showing the .357 mag and quite a few others. It looks like the muzzle velocity out of an 8" barrel for the .357 is 1500 fps.

[20nickels]

I've seen the recovered slug from the .380 CD vs. the .380 XTP and it is beeeutiful. CD expansion looks exactly like it does on the box. FYI they tested the 125 gr .357 in a 2" Colt at 1200 fps.

[FullEffect1911]

FYI they tested the 125 gr .357 in a 2" Colt at 1200 fps.

excellent, it should get to 1260 or so from my 3" gp100. That is exactly what I was hoping for. I need to pick up some of this stuff. In addition I think the somewhat pointed profile will help speed up speedloaders.

[mljdeckard]

I am HIGHLY skeptical of Hornady's claims here, that A: failure to expand due to clogging of cloth is a widespread problem among premium JHP ammo, B: This ammo is any more reliable than any other premium JHP ammo, or C: That this won't cause premature expansion, thus creating as many problems as it might solve.

[V1ROT8]

I have used the Remington Golden Saber 125 gr hp 357 Magnum. Excellent ammo.

[20nickels]

The ballistician said he shot the recovered .380 slug I saw into rags. We didn't go into details as to what the rags were covering, measured penetration, etc. I was much more interested in the .357

[FullEffect1911]

C: That this won't cause premature expansion, thus creating as many problems as it might solve.

This is something that the Federal HST rounds seem to do. I've seen pictures of a .45 slug expanding to near full diameter after passing through about a 1.5" -2" piece of gel. Yet many people seem to like that round.

http://www.thegunzone.com/45hst.html

Btw: I think the sequence of pictures at that link is really interesting.