Saiga 762X39 or .308?


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sigbear
November 7, 2009, 07:26 AM
If you were to by a Saiga, which would you pick 762X39 or .308?

Would the recoil of the .308 ruin the fun?

Sigbear

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CnRnut
November 7, 2009, 07:53 AM
Of the 2 choices,i'd take a x39 due to ammo cost.
What Saiga would I get today? A 5.45x39
Century has ammo for $120 for 1080.

Victor1Echo
November 7, 2009, 10:26 AM
308 all the way. 39 is lousy ammo. some people claim their saigas are as accurate as M1s.

rbernie
November 7, 2009, 02:57 PM
I have owned several of each, both unconverted and converted back to AK form. I vastly prefer the 7.62x39 version.

It's more fun to shoot due to the lower recoil, ammo is a lot less expensive, it's got enough power for both social purposes and hunting deer/hog inside of 250yards (yes, I've done it, a lot), and most importantly - after conversion back to AK form (which costs less than $100 if you shop carefully) you can use $14 ComBloc 30rd magazines instead of $50 plastic mags.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 03:07 PM
I have both (and some other saigas). Unless you are wealthy to the point that you really don't care one bit about the cost of ammo or mags I would go with the 7.62x39.

Ammo is cheaper. Mags are much cheaper.

For me the difference in recoil is not really an issue at all. My wallet will want me to stop shooting a long long long time before my shoulder will. If anything I kind of like the bigger boom of the .308.

That is me though. The answer for you likely depends on how you want to use the gun and other subjective factors.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 03:13 PM
What Saiga would I get today? A 5.45x39
Century has ammo for $120 for 1080.

More like $186.

wally
November 7, 2009, 03:42 PM
What Saiga would I get today? A 5.45x39
Century has ammo for $120 for 1080.

Not to mention its corrosive. I shoot lots of it, but its a factor, as I can't always clean my guns immediately, so the 5.45 get left at home these times.

The .308 is a little easier to convert if you are planning to, but if you want to shoot a lot, the 7.62x39 is the way to go for both ammo and magazine costs.

Wolf 7.62x39 was $200/1000 at todays gun show, the Korean AK mags are easy to fine for $10, sometimes you can still find Bulgarian at this price, but $15 is more common for them. The cheapest .308 was Brown Bear at $190/500. You are doing good to find a Surefire Saiga .308 mag for $35.

--wally.

rbernie
November 7, 2009, 03:53 PM
I shoot lots of it, but its a factor, as I can't always clean my guns immediately, so the 5.45 get left at home these times.
I also refuse to own a gun for which there is no indiginous source of supply. Until I can get 5.45 bullets and brass and dies, or at least US-made ammo, I'm sticking to 5.56, 308, and 7.62x39 Saigas.

GRIZ22
November 7, 2009, 03:58 PM
I also refuse to own a gun for which there is no indiginous source of supply. Until I can get 5.45 bullets and brass and dies, or at least US-made ammo, I'm sticking to 5.56, 308, and 7.62x39 Saigas

I agree. All those seeking out 5.45 guns because of the cheap ammo may find themselves with expensive tomato stakes if that ammo source dries up.

Would the recoil of the .308 ruin the fun?



The 308 is a much more versitile round but if you're looking for a fun gun get the 7.62x39 or 223 Saiga.

Col. Plink
November 7, 2009, 04:04 PM
If there's one thing I've learned hanging out here in the last 6mos., it's "find a caliber you like and you're likely to find the ammo you need."

I took a roundabout way to the milsurp calibers I really like because I started at 'which rifle ammo is cheapest right now so I can secure a supply?'

I've found if you know what you want, with enough dilligent digging around here and similar sites, you'll find a great deal on surplus ammo for your needs. I didn't know how to do it so I went 7.62x39 because Barnaul was cheap at Academy. A little more homework and I could have found the surplus supplies I use now and had price AND accessibility. I recently made a deal for .308 surplus better than why I went w/762x39 in the first place.

Work those deal boards, find that surplus ammo and go shooting!

Publius1688
November 7, 2009, 05:56 PM
If your heart is set on .308, get a CETME.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 06:02 PM
I would have about 1000x more faith in a saiga than a CETME if I didn't know what to look for in the CETME or if it was to be purchased sight unseen.

The only advantage the CETME would have is cheaper mags.

Col. Plink
November 7, 2009, 06:19 PM
Recently took on a Saiga308, ver.21 with the thumbhole stock & non-sporter configuration. All I have to do is what I would have done: drop in a better trigger group and hook up those ol' mags full o' big ol' bullets!

rizbunk77
November 7, 2009, 07:10 PM
The obvious answer for me is 308. I have converted one and so I am biased, but.... How many AK's do you see out there in 308? Converting a 308 is a much better investment. No need to convert a 7.62X39, there are plenty of rifles on the market in that caliber.
Now for the real kicker: The converted Saiga 308 is also unique because of the heavy barrel. This 308 is a real hunting rifle where 7.62X39 is marginal in velocity and power. Recoil is comparable to a 22-250 or 243. Not an issue. I guess lastly for me is the fact that I know the 308 will get the job done regardless of what level of body armor its deployed against.

BMW2
November 7, 2009, 08:37 PM
I had on in .308 for a while and the recoil wasn't bad, not a lot more than my x39 but it was a 22in barrel, so it was a little heavier.

CnRnut
November 7, 2009, 09:06 PM
More like $186

Don't speak on things you don't know!!!

It is $120 a tin right now. I don't care if the web site isn't updated
for you.

I clean all my centerfire arms after shooting so corrosive ammo is
a non-issue.

If one buys cheap,and stacks deep,you never have to worry about
supply of a given caliber.

rbernie
November 7, 2009, 10:07 PM
If one buys cheap,and stacks deep,you never have to worry about
supply of a given caliber. That's what I thought, last year.

I don't think that I can buy enough 5.45 to last me my lifetime, and I'm not trusting the current batch o' CongressCritters to NOT try to muck with the importation of cheap Russian ammo somewhere down the road.

The nice thing about 7.62x39 (or 308 or 223) is that I can get the chambering in a number of platforms. For example, I have owned ARs, AKs, and bolt guns, all chambered in 7.62x39....

Col. Plink
November 7, 2009, 11:16 PM
Heck, you can get 308 chambered in a pump gun (which is awesome). Better yet, there's eight years' production of 'em that are C&R right now!

I'm wondering just how many might be lingering in those forgotten-about nooks and crannies where fantastic rifles that are only 50 years old are wanting new homes!

More importantly, there really are a ton of old hunting rifles coming into C&R status that are chambered in 308 on some of the most revered platforms made.

CornCod
November 7, 2009, 11:26 PM
7.62X39 and .308 are both great cartridges. If you want to shoot at longer ranges and the cost of ammo is no object then get the .308. If you tend to put your targets up at the 100 yard position or you need to buy inexpensive ammo, go for the X39.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 11:43 PM
Quote:
More like $186
Don't speak on things you don't know!!!

It is $120 a tin right now. I don't care if the web site isn't updated
for you.

I clean all my centerfire arms after shooting so corrosive ammo is
a non-issue.

If one buys cheap,and stacks deep,you never have to worry about
supply of a given caliber.


Are you telling me the price on the website is not the actual selling price? If I try to order right now it gives a price of 160 If so that is good news. Unless the ammo fairy flies it my home there are shipping charges to factor in.

Maybe you can buy it for less but via there website I'm not sure how I can. Any tips?

rizbunk77
November 8, 2009, 01:04 AM
I converted a 308 and now I can take a rifle to the range that will kick the ass of my friends SocomII and for about 1/3 the cost. Rock and Roll

rangerruck
November 8, 2009, 01:12 AM
No, the 308, in a saiga, with it's nice recoil system, is nothing to worry about;
ammo cost is.

nulfisin
November 8, 2009, 11:20 AM
I prefer the 7.62 x 39. However, if you want the 308 and ammo cost is your worry, you can take up reloading. I did. It's a fun hobby and it lets you shoot fancy rounds relatively cheaply.

BTW, 308 ammo is really expensive. Close to a buck a round for good stuff. So do think about reloading before you take than plunge.

24kshooter
November 8, 2009, 11:39 AM
The 308 if you can afford the ammo - the 16" has the mid wt. barrel and 3 lug bolt as used by the RPK's. The bolt contributes to the outstanding accuracy for a relatively inexpensive rifle. Recoil is a bit more than an M1A. You can buy a rifle and several thousand rounds of ammo fot the price of a SOCOM. Mag prices are the only drawback I see.

chauncey
November 8, 2009, 03:24 PM
WalMart still sells 308...

jlott00
November 9, 2009, 07:11 PM
i also fight with this,

if shtf will i want 3k rounds of 39 or will i be wishing i could shoot farther and hit harder with 1500 rounds of 308........i havent made up my mind

MJR007
November 9, 2009, 07:28 PM
I know nothing of these rifles. Can GOOD scope mounts be found?

Girodin
November 9, 2009, 07:37 PM
Can GOOD scope mounts be found?

What type of optic do you want to use?

I like the Beryl style mounts for say a 4x optic.

For a red dot the ultimak aimpoint combo is a pretty nice setup.

wally
November 9, 2009, 07:54 PM
The Warsaw Pact side rail mounted scopes are pretty nice once you get used to the reticle, before I had lasik eye surgery my PSOP was about the only scope I could use effectively without reading glasses -- its even better now that that my astigmatism is also fixed.

These were a steal when they first came available as "surplus" at $60-100, I got three, wish I'd gotten more!

--wally.

MJR007
November 9, 2009, 08:17 PM
Thank you Girodin, the Beryl look like they work. My eyes and rifle sights don't work that well. Any known problems with normal use 1.5-5x scope?

Girodin
November 9, 2009, 09:11 PM
If you go with the Beryl (and I do think it is the best way to mount a scope) I would use one of the "quick disconnect" models that attach in the rear via a latch. The ones that attach via a screw are much less expensive but to me it is definately worth the extra money to be able to unlatch the thing for cleaning and then simply snap it back down and have it hold zero.

The two I am looking at are the Krebs and the Texas weapon systems rails. I have only heard great things about the Krebs but it is spendy. Both allow for the use of a rear peep sight so you can have a back up sight.

I'm leaning towards the texas weapons system rail and I'll spend the extra $ for the rear peep. I want to get some more feed back on it though first.
http://dpharms.com/images/117-1706_IMG.JPG

http://i10.tinypic.com/4976np2.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/29frq6o.jpg

rockheadd
November 11, 2009, 01:37 PM
The POSP 6x24V comes ready to go for the Saiga. I put one on my .308 and it works just fine. Being a southpaw, it's not "optimal", but having shot weapons all my life that were not optimal for lefties, this set-up is no worse than most others.
Recoil is nothing to note. 200 rounds at the range won't leave you bruised or damaged. Factory trigger is bad to worse, ammo still plentiful and it will eat anything you put into it. Mags are $35 and up, but who REALLY needs more than 2-3?
The 7.62x39 round is fun, less expensive and there are tons of options for 100 yard plinking. A WASR 10/63 gets the job done, it's already in an AK configuration and it goes boom everytime you pull the trigger.
So, unless you have money to burn, get the .308 in the Saiga, convert it if you must and enjoy the capability of really reaching out there (200yds +). Spend $350 on a WASR for the 39 and have fun at 100 yds and less.

t165
November 12, 2009, 06:27 AM
Hello sigbear. I bought both the 7.62x39 and 308 saiga rifles. I actually bought (2) 308 rifles with the 16.5 inch barrel because I am very impressed with this firearm and cartridge combined with the short barrel length. I'm certainly not going to try and tell anyone which caliber or firearm is better or best.

I used to own (5) CETME's. I enjoyed them but the Saiga 308 just fits me better. I am more accustomed to the controls of the AK platform. YMMV! And I absolutely hated the muzzlebrakes which came on some of the CETME's. Extremely loud! If you lived near to me I would let you shoot both for the experience and help you make up your mind which is right for you. Both have their pluses and minuses. I just love that 308 power. I posted a picture of a 16.5 inch barreled saiga with a Surefire 25 round magazine compared to a CETME with a 20 round magazine for comparision. The 7.62x39 saiga is a bit lighter than the 308-1 saiga but that is about it. I will admit the CETME's were more accurate than the saiga 308 rifle and seemed to kick less. But, I have only fired (1) of my saiga 308's so that is not a fair comparision. All of the (5) CETME's shot very well. Also, all of the CETME's except one had jamming issues. The one pictured needed almost 100 rounds fired through it before it ran right. Two of the (5) cetmes never came out of the jamming issue. I never had them gunsmithed either which would have probably fixed the problems.

malix
November 12, 2009, 10:33 AM
^ i hope you have enough US made parts in that Saiga to be 922r compliant while using that big magazine.

but i'm sure you do. nice rifles. :)

Ignition Override
November 13, 2009, 01:52 AM
nulfisin:

I became really interested in the idea of a CETME (yes, have read about problems. i.e. Century), but after reading many comments-and heard some in person-about the difficulty of reloading the banged-up .308 brass, it does not seem like an economical rifle to shoot :(, unless:

1) Buying a 'port buffer' and paying a gunsmith to install it is really cheap, and

2) A reloading beginner (who is also kind of new to guns) can easily find components to make it at about .30/round, after two-three hundred or so. Have seen US (Boxer)and Russian-made "Brown Bear" (Berdan primed, not reloadable) .308 ammo retail prices.

Col. Plink:
Your idea of securing an affordable ammo supply is my only critical factor in deciding whether to buy a given caliber rifle.
Last April, if Samco had already sold out their cheap .303 ammo, I probably would not have bought my first LE (#5 "Jungle Carbine").
If the ammo is not in my house, the rifle is postponed.

t165:
Very cool rifles, especially with the wood:). Have you found an easy way to reload .308 for the CETMES at about .30/round, with stuff which Lt. Forrest Gump :confused: could find at current prices?

t165
November 13, 2009, 01:59 AM
I wondered if anyone was going to catch that malix. I'm a member of Saiga-12.com also and I would have had 50 of those members on top of me for posting that picture. ;)


I have to mirandize myself now..."Sir, you have the right to remain silent...

Ignition Override
November 13, 2009, 02:07 AM
t165:
A friend will have a table with between a dozen and twenty Saiga-12s at the Jackson, TN gun show Saturday morning.

t165
November 13, 2009, 02:25 AM
I didn't see you initial question Ignition Override. I do not reload for the CETME. I do not reload at all. I have friends that do it for me when I need something special. All I ever fired in the CETME's were 7.62x51 loaded milsurp shells. I do not how much of what I'm about to say next is true or not but I have been cautioned not to shoot commercial 308 ammunition in a CETME. I was also advise not to shoot commercial 308 brass reloads in the CETME. The reason had to do with the chamber flutes a CETME has and the belief that commercial 308 brass is thinner than military 7.62x51 brass. I honestly do not know if this is true or not. The argument is the thinner/weaker commercial 308brass could rupture or expand too much upon firing and stick in the chamber due to the flutes. Some have reported case heads ripped off 308 brass also resluting in a stuck shell. Also, some believe commercial 308 loaded cartridges are loaded to a higher pressure than nato 7.62x51 shells which justs exacerbates the beforementioned "alleged" problems with the CETME's chamber flutes. I'm not going to stick my neck out and take a position on how much if any of this is true. I replaced the last two black plastic stocks of my CETME's with stock kits from cheaperthandirt.com. The wood kits look nice and come with several accessories at a very low price.

What are the Saiga-12's bringing now? I got caught up in the "Obama scare" and paid $600.00 for my last one. :cuss:

Girodin
November 13, 2009, 02:51 AM
Why do people break the law and then post pics of it? You may want to edit out that pic.

What are the Saiga-12's bringing now? I got caught up in the "Obama scare" and paid $600.00 for my last one.

Not $600. I've seen NIB for $450.

t165
November 13, 2009, 04:47 AM
Calm yourself Girodin! There is nothing for you get get all nervous about. No law is being broken. If you had any experience in law Enforcement you would know better than to make presumptous comments without knowing the facts first.

After I posted the picture I thought to myself I was going to receive some 922 compliance comments and was merely jesting over the Miranda Warning. I'm really not going to arrest myself and I didn't mean to scare anyone. :rolleyes:

As for spending $600.00 for the Saiga-12. Well, that was the going price months ago. The Obama administrations decision to go after health care before other policies (gun control) was not known at that time. I decided to be safe than sorry. It still would have been nice to have known in advance and saved the $150.00.

sigbear
November 25, 2009, 08:29 PM
ti65, I live in Mass, not sure where you hang your hat, if your close by I'd like to try your saiga's

Sigbear

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