saiga conversion


PDA






yotesmoker
November 7, 2009, 07:47 AM
What is ment by the term 'saiga conversion'.I don't know much about ak's and keep hearing this term.My dealer has a saiga rifle so how do I know if is a conversion whatever that is.

If you enjoyed reading about "saiga conversion" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
CnRnut
November 7, 2009, 08:03 AM
A "coversion" is when the trigger is moved foward to the normal
position to allow the mounting of a pistol grip. The trigger should be
@ 1.5" behind the magazine release lever if it's converted.
Check out Saiga 12 .com for all the info needed on them.

Victor1Echo
November 7, 2009, 09:24 AM
It means it looks like an AK47.

PT1911
November 7, 2009, 09:27 AM
a lot of hassle to move the pistol grip and trigger group forward about an inch and a half...personally, I threw on a tapco 6 position with pistol grip and galil handguard and my saiga is more comfortable than any AK I have handled. I prefer the more stretched out feel. Not even close really.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 02:24 PM
a lot of hassle to move the pistol grip and trigger group forward about an inch and a half...personally,

Two comments:

1 What is a lot of hassle is very subjective. Someone who knows what they doing can do a basic conversion in less than a hour. Most people who do it for the first time and take there time and constantly refer to reference material typically take 2-3 hours.

Aside from the time aspect it will leave even an AK noob with a very solid understanding of how their weapon works. There is something to be said for knowing how to completely disassemble and re-assemble ones weapon.

2 describing the fruits of the conversion as merely moving the trigger forward an inch and a half is a gross mischaracterization of the benefits. Further, the tapco intrafuse (in addition to being a low end stock) provides none of the most important benefits of conversion. This improvements are namely:

1 Dramatically improved trigger. The stock saiga wishbone trigger is horrible. It only takes on look at the factory linkage to understand why is so bad. A tapco G2 feels like a match trigger in comparison.

2. Balance. The factory rifle is out of balance and very front heavy. Putting things where they were designed to be fixes that.

Ergonomics: One cannot reach the safety selector w/o completely removing their hand from the grip. Further other improvements available for the AK such as extended mag release or enhanced safeties will be of no good.

3. Looks: this one is totally subjective but the intra fuse stock just looks very very off.

I cannot tell any individual that the intrafuse stock doesn't feel better to them. I do wonder if it is simply a length of pull issue, ie a properly configured AK would feel better if the length of pull fit you. I have friend who this was the issue for him. It is even more of an issue if you shoot bladed off as opposed to squared up (where a shorter length of pull is needed). I will say that the vast majority of people seem to find the proper configuration to be a better handling weapon than the stock saiga or the intrafuse stock.

For more info on what a conversion entails go to youtube and search it.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 02:34 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473230

This is a link to a thread showing chronicling a current saiga project I'm working on.

nalioth
November 7, 2009, 02:44 PM
It only takes on look at the factory linkage to understand why is so bad. Here's your "one look":

http://www.novarata.net/abrams/saiga556/1024/saiga556_664_a.JPG

Think on this: Parts 7, 8, 9 and 10 are replaced by one single part during the conversion (an actual trigger).

wally
November 7, 2009, 04:49 PM
Nalioth,

I'm converting a 5.45x39 and your suggestion (in another thread) to drive the rolled pins that hold the wishbone trigger parts instead of drilling them is a winner! Looks like I could easily re-roll them to fill the holes too.

I want to keep the bolt hold open, any tricks to reinsert the spring? On my .223 and 7.62x39 conversions I put the spring in "backwards" so I could grab the long tail with a needle nose pliers and put if over the tab to generate the downwards pressure. It works and was the only way I could get it in at all, but is there some trick to get it back together the way it came? (short tail applying the downward pressure).

My 5.45 seems to feed from AK74 mags without the bullet guide, but since I'd ordered one in anticipation of eventually getting a 5.45 I'll probably go ahead and put it in as the factory mag has a bullet guide in the front same as the other Saiga factory mags do.

My .223 and 7.62 absolutely needed the bullet guide to feed at all from Galil or standard AK47 mags.

The conversion really only needs the most basic of metal working skills and I find it gratifying to actually produce tangible results instead of my normal sitting in front of a computer all day work.


It means it looks like an AK47.
Not really until you replace the front hand guards and gas tube, but the expense of adding the press-on retainer (or the even more expensive two piece) and adding a standard gas tube is not really worthwhile for most folks. I actually like the "feel" of the stock Saiga hanguard, although I do prefer the standard "look", just not enough to spring for an extra $100+ in parts. Maybe if I find the parts for cheap at a gun show some day I'll do it.

But I agree the conversion is a major improvement in the balance and the much improved trigger is an even bigger benefit.

--wally.

rogertc1
November 7, 2009, 05:12 PM
I too just went with the tapco 6 position with pistol grip and tapco handguard on my Saiga 12. Easier to get the long 12rd mags and drum in too.

Girodin
November 7, 2009, 05:12 PM
I actually like the "feel" of the stock Saiga hanguard, although I do prefer the standard "look"

I'm with you on that one. I like the more classic AK look but as for as shooting and handling I think the saiga hand guard is better.

I use the dental floss trick to install the LRBHO, it works well, and having someone there to provide a third hand makes it super easy. There is a good video by CSS of installing it on youtube.

nalioth
November 7, 2009, 05:12 PM
I want to keep the bolt hold open, any tricks to reinsert the spring? On my .223 and 7.62x39 conversions I put the spring in "backwards" so I could grab the long tail with a needle nose pliers and put if over the tab to generate the downwards pressure. It works and was the only way I could get it in at all, but is there some trick to get it back together the way it came? (short tail applying the downward pressure). Dental floss.

rizbunk77
November 7, 2009, 06:25 PM
Here's some advice:
****can the bolt hold open, so you can use an unaltered US trigger like a red star. I have one with the bho reinstalled and when I look in the receiver and see all that crap wiggling around when I cycle the bolt, I realize its just one more damn thing you don't need. Even when its working properly it still doesn't hold the bolt clear of the magazine (at least on my 308). I think its just put there for export regulation. Anyway when its gone all you have is a small slot there on the right side to ignore. Like Forest Gump said...."One less thing."

Dental Floss is OK but any small strong string or ribbon will work. You can save some of that stuff so your wife won't have to get cavities.

Go for the old style Tapco retaining plate for the trigger group pins. The new one did not line up for me and is bigger and bulkier.
Also I am convinced the one piece saiga handguard is superior to the original AK handguards.

nalioth
November 7, 2009, 06:44 PM
Here's some advice:
****can the bolt hold open,<snip> I think its just put there for export regulation. That's all it's for - to gain import points as a "sporting firearm".
Anyway when its gone all you have is a small slot there on the right side to ignore. Like Forest Gump said...."One less thing." The slot is easily welded up when you get the rest of the extraneous holes welded.

Go for the old style Tapco retaining plate for the trigger group pins. The new one did not line up for me and is bigger and bulkier.
Texas AK Triggers (http://www.texasaktriggers.com) sells a Russian design retainer plate that works very nicely. The price is nice, too.

nulfisin
November 7, 2009, 07:26 PM
:)That's the only reason to do the conversion. Nowadays, you save a relatively small amount of money doing the conversion yourself versus buying a converted gun. Earlier this year, I was able to do a conversion, all in, for over 200 bucks less than what the converted rifles were going for. The best reason to do it was a fun afternoon tinkering. Now that prices have normalized somewhat, I doubt if you can save much $100 by converting your own Saiga. So it probably has to be something you'll enjoy doing.

A converted Saiga IS a better shooting gun. Better trigger and more natural point. If you like the sporter version, leave it that way. I like the converted version and think you will too.

wally
November 7, 2009, 08:25 PM
I doubt if you can save much $100 by converting your own Saiga. So it probably has to be something you'll enjoy doing

Still $100 is about 500 rounds of Wolf ammo, A few hours of part time work at your normal rate of pay to pick up an extra $100 is pretty hard to come by these days. I'll finish mine while watching the Texans lose tomorrow afternoon so its "free time" fo r me (they always stink when I watch, as soon as I stop they play well, McLane should pay me to be at the range whenever they play :) ).

The dental floss idea sounds pretty good, I'll give it a try, if not the ones I've put in "backwards" have worked fine.

--wally.

nulfisin
November 7, 2009, 08:28 PM
Guys, rich I'm not. The money saved, by itself, just didn't seem like a good enough reason to do the job.

If you enjoyed reading about "saiga conversion" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!