Picking a 308 Help..


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damagedworld
November 8, 2009, 12:13 PM
I am in the process of selling off my ar chambered in 223 so i can purchase a 308...

i want accuracy, and want to understand all my options before picking something.. also if the AR is going to be close in accuracy i think that i want that due to it being semi automatic...

can you compare the following

308 AR in a 16inch barrel (this is what i want.. i prefer the shorter barrel as it travels easier...

308 AR with a longer barrel

308 savage or similar bolt gun


any help in comparing the accuracy of those 3 would be appreciated

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Col. Plink
November 8, 2009, 12:43 PM
If you're putting bolt guns and semiautos in the same category, I'm not sure what folks can help you with. What are accuracy reports like w/the AR308 v. other semiauto .308's (M14/M1A, Saiga, FAL, CETME)?

If accuracy is the top criterion the bolt guns or maybe a Remington 760/7600 pump would be best. There are 10-rd mags for 760/7600's, kind of a nice compromise between the accuracy of a bolt gun and capacity/speed of a semiauto.

damagedworld
November 8, 2009, 01:14 PM
well that IS the point that im trying to debate in my mind..

i REALLY want a 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel due to its serious power while still maintaining a get up and go role.. that coupled with the fact that in a purely hypothetical "shtf" scenario it COULD be used at short range as well..

i guess im looking for that compromise between long range shooting and the ability to have a decent magazine capacity and the ROF that comes with semi-auto..

but i am NOT willing to sacrifice a ton of accuracy to get it..

thats kind of where im stuck...

i know its hard to compare semi auto to bolt guns.. but that IS the problem im trying to figure out..

Col. Plink
November 8, 2009, 01:31 PM
I landed on the Remington 760 when I split the difference. Great ROF, bolt gun accuracy, 10-rd steel mags: the world's your oyster! Still looking for one in .308...

Also, racking a RIFLE slide sounds even cooler than on a shotgun!

islandphish
November 8, 2009, 01:35 PM
Hmm, a battle rifle thread.

What is a "ton of accuracy"? Are you a good shot?

is 2.5moa good enough?

Make that decision. the battle rifle fights all go the same way...

So you might as well add reliability to your list of criteria now...

JDGray
November 8, 2009, 01:59 PM
This should do the trick!:)
http://www.defensereview.com/larue-tactical-stealth-osr-optimized-sniper-rifle-762mm-sniper-carbinerifle/

chauncey
November 8, 2009, 02:05 PM
you are asking a bunch of questions, at once.

what do you want your "shtf" rifle to do? this is different, for everyone.

do you want:
1. how much accuracy? 1 moa, 2.5 moa, 4moa?
2. how much importance do you place on reliability?
3. how important is magazine capacity?
4. how much do you want to spend?
5. how much "ammo finickyness" are you willing to tolerate?
6. how many magazines do you want to buy?
7. how important is parts interchangeability and magazine availability, to you?
8. do you plan to scope the rifle, or use iron sights only, or do you want the ability to do both?

we need more info, before we can all start arguing!

there are very few BAD choices among the HK91, FAL, M14, AR10, Rem 700, Rem 7600, FNAR, (insert your favorite bolt-action or lever-action rifle HERE), etc.

there are a lot of choices that will not fit your criteria, but we need to know what that criteria is!

damagedworld
November 8, 2009, 03:03 PM
ok sorry to be so vague.. let me do this a different way..

I WANT a 16in 308 AR rifle with the ability to accept a railed handguard, scope, and BUIS (just in case)... I want the gun to be reliable, and since this rifle will primarily shoot longer distances 1moa is what im hoping for.. can 1moa be obtained through a decent scope, 308AR, decent shooter combo....

i don't really want it to be super picky on ammo, BUT i will only be putting non-corrosive, brass ammo through it.. i live in the commie state of NJ so sourcing magazines for ANY 308 AR is going to be sucky...

parts interchangeability is not really such an issue.. i would likely buy spare parts and keep them on hand like any other firearm..

id like to keep the rifle itself in the 1100 to 1200 range... willing to buy used as well...

hope that helps..

thanks for the input..

Redneck with a 40
November 8, 2009, 03:08 PM
You're going to get some serious blast and flash out of a .308 and 16" barrel, powder will be burning outside the muzzle. Also, velocity takes a big hit.

If it were me, I'd look at the FNAR, 20" barrel, semi-auto, 20 round magazine, they go for around $1600. My dad bought one, its sweet.

Carne Frio
November 8, 2009, 03:09 PM
DPMS:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/category.aspx?id=9

1858
November 8, 2009, 03:21 PM
id like to keep the rifle itself in the 1100 to 1200 range

Dammit ... I was going to suggest one of these but it's well over your price range ...

http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P-308-16-MRR-CF-308-CARBINE-C.R.O.S..htm

I have the 20" version and like it a lot. I haven't put much effort into working up loads for it but I was able to see how it performs with factory ammunition during a 2-day precision rifle course last month. Another attendee was using his P-308 with a 20" barrel and was consistently shooting under 1MOA at 100 yards and 150 yards using Hornady 168gr ammunition. I was impressed with that but know I can do better with my reloads.

:)

damagedworld
November 8, 2009, 03:24 PM
was thinking about a DPMS rifle.. had a trade for one... i assume if going from 20 down to 16 loses velocity, how does that translate to the shot i take.. will it reduce the range of the rifle... would i still be fine out to 500m... sorry to ask such basic questions just want to get this right the first time..

52grain
November 8, 2009, 05:00 PM
What about an M1A?

SlamFire1
November 8, 2009, 05:09 PM
You really take a hit with shorter barrels. The closest comparison I have is with an 18, 22 and 26 barrels with Australian ball.

Friends have brought out DPMS 308 ARs, and they were accurate. Take a look at the magazines, the ones I saw were plastic. I was not impressed.

Bushmaster made a 308 AR that used FAL magazines. Armalite used converted M14 magazines. I believe a M14 mag is much more durable than a plastic or FAL magazine.


PTR91 18" barrel


150 gr Australian Ball MF83 headstamp (actually 147 grain)

30 April 2008 T = 75 F

Ave Vel = 2599
Std Dev = 23
ES = 63
High = 2630
Low = 2567
N = 10

poor accuracy



200 yard 20ish group. Shot off bench, just blasting with PTR91.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/Reduced28rdsPTR91200yards147grAustr.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/PTRFullLength079.jpg


M1A Super Match 22 1/10" 6 groove Douglas

150 gr Australian Ball MF83 headstamp (actually 147 grain)
T = 78 F 2-May-05

Ave Vel = 2806
Std Dev = 91
ES = 344
Low = 2612
High = 2956
N = 10

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M1a%20and%20Garand%20Receiver%20Pictures/ReducedRightSiderifle1.jpg

Ruger M77 MKII 26 " Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr Australian Ball MF83 headstamp (actually 147 grain)

30 April 2008 T = 62 F

Ave Vel = 2819
Std Dev = 19
ES = 64
High = 2859
Low = 2795
N = 10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Ruger%20M77%20Glassbedded/96ReducedRugerM77afterGlassbeddingD.jpg

chauncey
November 9, 2009, 10:02 PM
if you are set on an AR i think the DPMS Ap4 is the only rifle that fits your criteria. i have no personal experience with this model

the only non-AR rifle that may also fit your criteria is a PTR-91, but it won't do any better than 1.5 moa (I question if the AP4 is really capable of this also) and the ergonomics aren't the best, but doable. i would get the model with the M4-style stock and railed handguards, to fit your criteria

FAL and Saiga won't approach the accuracy requirement, M1A and Armalite AR10 will be well above your established price range

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