[Hammerhead6814]

Taurus: Brazil.
Rock Island Armory: Philippines.
Norinco: China.
Armscor: Philippines.
American Classic: Made by Armscor.
Firestorm: Made by Metro Arms, Philippines.

This one is heart-breaking:

Springfield Armory: Imbel makes the receivers and apparently some other parts :uhoh: . Imbel: Brazil!

:banghead:

The only company that as far as I can tell makes everything in the USA is Kimber!

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I think 1911's made elsewhere in the world are sub-standard. I don't believe they make a bad pistol. If they did they wouldn't be getting glittering reviews. Rock Island Armory for one is an amazingly popular 1911 here in Western Missouri. I almost always see one at the range.

But the 1911 is an American designed icon! What the AK-47 is to rifles, and the Remington 870 is to shotguns, the 1911 is to pistols. Yet I could only turn up one stinking company that makes a completely American 1911?

When searching for companies those are the ones I found. Did I miss one? Any one at all?

[wditto]

ever hear of Colt's ?

[cyclopsshooter]

colts

[gb6491]

USFA

[jakk280rem]

s&w? baer? nighthawk? ruger?

[Pilot]

Its a global marketplace. Get over it. Look at where your GM, Ford or Chrysler is "made".

[TimboKhan]

s&w? baer? nighthawk? ruger?

Unless my wildest dreams have come true and I am totally unaware of it, Ruger does not make a 1911.

Also, isn't Para-Ordnance now headquartered in the US? Does Sig make their 1911 here, or is it an import?

[bdb benzino]

American Classic II is the same pistol as the new Firestorm Government Deluxe, and they are both made by Metro Arms in P.I. They do not have a connection to Armscor although they are both in the same country. Both are good entry level 1911's. I have an RIA and a Metro Arms 1911 and neither of them has had 1 FTF or FTE at all, and both of them have 600+ rounds through them.

[MICHAEL T]

American Classic: Made by Armscor.
Firestorm: Made by Metro Arms, Philippines.

AmericanClassic made by Metroarms not Armscor Its the Firestorm with a different roll mark. Both are well made and my AC will shoot right with my Colts costing nearly 2 times as much I bet with a little tuning would give my Dan Wesson fits on target range

[PsychoGlory]

To me the 1911 is an American icon, I refuse to buy a foreign made 1911. Especially when there is so many excellent made 1911s made right here. Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber, S&W are just a few. I have been in the same boat, wanting a US made 1911 but not having the money. The best suggestion I can give is either buy used or just save your money until you can get the one you want.

[luigi]

The only company that as far as I can tell makes everything in the USA is Kimber!

Unfortunately, the US has been exporting skilled manufacturing jobs for years. it is expected that over 50% of US manufacturing jobs will be lost by 2016 (US Dept of Labor).

[zignal_zero]

OP - i see you said "USA" and not "AMERICA" i was gonna get you, on that one, if you didn't LOL.

people always say "i prefer an Amercian made 1911" when they see my Taurus and i'm like "it IS made in America" :-D

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

Two words: (and no offense to this)
Who Cares?

As mentioned earlier, take a look at your "yay America" "American built" cars: FILLED with foriegn labor and parts.

Most of the guns out there have outsourced parts or processes. They all are great 1911s. I like my Rock Island, my Springer and my homebuilds. It's simple economics: The "USA only" built ones tend to be horribly expensive. The Rock Islands are a boon to the shooting world in that it allows the average shooter to have the most tunable and accurate platform for shooting. Without less expensive 1911s, I feel we would have a generation of shooters that think the 1911 is expensive and out of reach, destroying a generation we can carry on self-gunsmithing.

I can't believe how many times I hear of folks wanting to send a 1911 back to the factory for repairs when they have so many 1911 smithing resources available. Inexpensive 1911s give shooters a new world of tuning, sort of like Hondas and import cars of the later 90s: Tons of parts for personalization. A shooter can now make a gun their own, CUSTOM if you will, but without spending thousands on a chunk of metal no better than the guns currently available.

[tprice]

Not surprising to see one of the most popular firearms designs in history (1911) made in many countries.

Look at the AK. Heck, Russia is p-o'd that so many are made "outside of patent." The AK is made in dozens of countries - they have a worse problem then we do with the 1911!

Like all things, to buy American does mean spending a bit more. A Kimber or Colt 1991 is twice the cost of a Philippine 1911. Can't speak for quality on their 1911's but the Kimber I have is a fine piece of work. However, as people are willing to spend a bit less for a (perceived) slight reduction in quality, the foreign pistols will sell.

In my opinion, I have not handled any firearm made in the eastern hemisphere that matches an American made one for accuracy, trigger pull, fit and finish, and pride of ownership.

[rkamp]

ever hear of Colt's ?

It is because of Colt that domestic and foreign manufacturers of the 1911 have flourished. Springfield Armory was the first to offer a quality, affordable 1911 albeit using Brazilian manufactured components to keep cost down. Colt responded with their bare bones 1991 A1, and "enhanced" models in the mid 90's. Kimber then entered the picture and probably offers the best (quality, price, options) pistol manufactured in the U.S.

Because of competition/capitalism we have a wealth of choices to choose from now, but little money to pay for ammo or range time. :D

[kamagong]

The reason why 1911s are made all over the world is because they are so popular. That is a good thing. Plus you'll never hear me complain about having choices. There are plenty of American-made 1911s out there, you just have to be willing to shell out the cash. And as good as some of those imported 1911s are, the best ones are still made in America.

[bang_bang]

Also, isn't Para-Ordnance now headquartered in the US?

Correct...moved down to Charlotte NC I do believe.

[weisse52]

Two words: (and no offense to this)
Who Cares?

I do....Colt.

[Hammerhead6814]

Colt is still selling 1911's to the public? S&W has a current lineup? I know that, at one time, they did. But I haven't seen either NIB.

Once again, it's not that I mind a foreign 1911. Everyone made them at one point (Argentina, Germany, Britain even).

It's just that I can't believe there are not more American companies that build them (in current production)! It's our design and yet, we seem to have only one (current) manufacturer!

Para moved to NC? Well, I'll be damned. We've reached two that CURRENTLY build them.

[kamagong]

It's just that I can't believe there are not more American companies that build them (in current production)! It's our design and yet, we seem to have only one (current) manufacturer!


How familiar are you with current 1911s? There are several companies that make their 1911s right here in America. IIRC Kimber, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Sig, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom are all domestically manufactured.

[rellascout]

Taurus: Brazil.
Rock Island Armory: Philippines.
Norinco: China.
Armscor: Philippines.
American Classic: Made by Armscor.
Firestorm: Made by Metro Arms, Philippines.

This one is heart-breaking:

Springfield Armory: Imbel makes the receivers and apparently some other parts . Imbel: Brazil!



The only company that as far as I can tell makes everything in the USA is Kimber!

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I think 1911's made elsewhere in the world are sub-standard. I don't believe they make a bad pistol. If they did they wouldn't be getting glittering reviews. Rock Island Armory for one is an amazingly popular 1911 here in Western Missouri. I almost always see one at the range.

But the 1911 is an American designed icon! What the AK-47 is to rifles, and the Remington 870 is to shotguns, the 1911 is to pistols. Yet I could only turn up one stinking company that makes a completely American 1911?

When searching for companies those are the ones I found. Did I miss one? Any one at all?

Get over it. Your complaint is not valid because there are tons of 1911 makers inside the US. Colt, Dan Wesson, Fusion, Sig, Les Baer, Wilson etc..... as others have pointed out. Yes the bottom of the barrel 1911s are made in foreign countries were labor is lower. It makes sense welcome to the 21st century. The global market is calling they want your money. LOL These lower end pistols require that they are made outside the US where labor is less.

You sound like the people from the American textile industries to complain that no one makes jeans in the US anymore but are buying $15 Lee jeans at Walmart. You are a typical American consumer. You want the American classic made by Americans but you don't want to play the money required to have it that way. There are tons of US made 1911s but they cost a little more than the $450 RIA. You might not be aware of them because they are not the cheapest gun in the case but please don't leave them out of the discussion. Stop looking at the cheapest 1911s on the market and pay for the US labor which you claim to support. Get a Dan Wesson or a Colt or quit bitching. Put your money where your mouth is.

P.S. Ruger for some reason is considering making a 1911. IMHO I would rather send my money to the Philippines vs support a company that lobbied for the assault weapons ban.

[Demitrios]

Rock Island Armory is owned by Armscor.

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

weisse52,

I understand where you are coming from on that. Colt is (or was, whatever someone's viewpoint on it is) a darn fine piece of metal. However, I feel that Colt's quality has dropped. I look at the internals of older (series 70) Colts and they are beautiful. New ones have horrible tooling marks, plastic parts (while not a bad thing, it is a deviation from the old standard that I hold them to). The new ones are generally something I would not like owning, given the degradation in percieved quality with the usage of parts that were once metal. Once again, while not in the debate, but I feel they have strayed FAR from the original that has made them full of glory and haunt the stories of our grandparents and parents.

Also, for what I have seen in regards to the "step back" (please, once again, in my opinion!), there is quite a lot to be left in pricing. They are still relatively expensive for a frill free model compared to a Springfield Loaded. A forged frame Milspec or GI that has the same amount of frills as the Colt standard 1911 is 200-300 dollars less expensive and lacks the plastic components of the Colt. The metalworking is roughly par to new Colts, but much less expensive comparatively. The mystique of the Colt is gone in my mind, gone along with the hopes of having an original, but new Colt, made to the old specs.

IMHO (no attack meant or even disregard sent), when I was looking for a factory 1911 (the few I have built were nice, but I wanted one I didn't have to horse with :D ), I had a choice at the time for a good ol'fashioned military pattern 1911: A Colt 1991 or a Springfield GI. The Colt 1991 was a 500 dollar gun, VERY used and had several issues that would need attention to immediantly. The Springfield was a NIB gun and stainless (while not GI spec, it was VERY pretty). I put my money down on the Springer. Looking back on it, it was a decent investment on my part. It joined the ranks of several of my builds, a lonely Rock Island .38 Stupor ( :D ), and a wonderful Sistema.

[mljdeckard]

(duplicate)(THR is jerking me around a bit.)

[rellascout]

If you are paying $200 to $300 more for a Colt 80 series then a Springer Mil spec or GI you are paying too much for your Colt.

[belus]

Buy stock in foreign companies: make them more "American".

[CWL]

Your clothes are made overseas, so is your car, TV, computer, phone, cell phone, & pretty much everything else found in a house, lots of your fruit & vegetables are imported, etc.

Time to get over it.

[mljdeckard]

Hammerhead, you obviously aren't looking very hard. Colt and S&W are currently making 1911s.

I got over the 'buy exclusively American or you are an unpatriotic a-hole" idea a long time ago. American cars aren't. Imported cars aren't. I want the gun that WORKS. Keeping commerce exclusively within our borders isn't healthy. Allowing ourselves to be put at an economic DISADVANTAGE is unhealthy, but Armscor, Imbel, etc, aren't the companies that are doing this to us.

I carry a Kimber, but if I had to buy another 1911 today, I would look HARD at an STI Spartan.

[mljdeckard]

Double-tap

[Artiz]

That NO FOREING policy is driving me nutz.

It's not because something isn't made in your backyard that it's utter ****.
Just like cars, it's not because someone invented the car that he makes the best, forever, far from it.
From my experience, "imported" stuff doesn't hurt, at all.

[Hammerhead6814]

I really wish people would read my posts instead of stereotyping.

[HisSoldier]

Kimber then entered the picture and probably offers the best (quality, price, options) pistol manufactured in the U.S.


I own a Kimber, and it is a fine gun, but I'll never buy another one until they stop using so much MIM. That's not quality!

New ones have horrible tooling marks, plastic parts (while not a bad thing, it is a deviation from the old standard that I hold them to).

Another point I can't agree with. I bought a Colt and the first thing I did was throw the plastic MSH in the garbage where it belonged. If I pay Colt prices I want a gun without their production shortcuts in it.

I have 5 1911's, all made in the USA. Two Colts, a Kimber and two Dan Wessons.

Knowing what I know now I'd never pay American prices for any of them but the Dan Wessons, no MIM, no plastics.

But that's just me.;)

[tipoc]

Hammerhead,

Colt is still selling 1911's to the public? S&W has a current lineup? I know that, at one time, they did. But I haven't seen either NIB.

So you are saying that you have not seen any new Colt or S&W. See the links below...

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15709&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708

Both have sold quite a few 1911s in recent years and both have introduced new models of the same. To avoid seeing these a fella would have had to not read any gun mags, stayed out of gun stores, stayed away from ranges, boycotted gun shows, etc.

For a gun guy to miss these is hard to understand.

Dan Wesson is owned by CZ. Para Ord is Canadian.

More 1911s are made in the U.S. by more companies than any other single type of pistol.

tipoc

[Demitrios]

Now this is a bit murky. Dan Wesson is indeed owned by CZ, but can you call it a foreign gun? It was originally owned and created by an American, however I'm not sure how much has changed since CZ has bought the rights to them. So is Dan Wesson not American because a foreign company gets its profits or started using parts? Just looking to stir the pot and cause a ruckus.

[MICHAEL T]

CZ may own Dan Wesson But its all American made , And is probably the best buy in a 1911 at present time. Much better fit and finish than my Kimber. That I traded . It has beaten my Colts in accuracy, I believe for the price DW is best deal on the market

[DougDubya]

rellascout - Bill Ruger Sr. is dead and gone. Get over yourself.

[weisse52]

If I can I will buy American. That does not mean I will buy junk just to do so. I point to Colt because to me it is a 1911. I will hold the quality of the current line of Colts to those made many years ago. I was around then. I understand the difference.

I will buy the best I can for my money. I own products from around the globe and will continue to do so. I just feel I can still find quality American made products in certain products and will continue to purchase them over offshore products.

I did sell my Springfield 1911's. I bought Colts. I did have a Norinco which is/was a great product, but recently sold it to purchase an S&W Model 41 (again American made)

For what I like to shoot, I can find an American made product that fits the bill in most cases.

Now, I recently purchased another Glock, a G30 to be exact. BECAUSE, it was the best I could find to fill the need I had. I wanted a mini .45 and do not feel that mini 1911's are reliable and was not going to buy one just to buy American.

People should not assume that one comment means something it does not.

[gc70]

Once again, while not in the debate, but I feel they have strayed FAR from the original that has made them full of glory and haunt the stories of our grandparents and parents.

Look around sometime in a gun store and you might see a Colt Model O-1918 that would change your mind. Of course, the magazines don't have lanyard loops like the originals, but they aren't too bad.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/upload/guns%2fcolt_pistols%2fo1918.png

[WinchesterAA]

Got bigger things to worry about than the country stamp on your firearm..

For instance, how about we contemplate how a country such as this one could have drifted away from sovereignty in the first place..

[earlthegoat2]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but.....it was all the manufacturing jobs in the US that finally caused so much trouble lately. The auto companies were paying people with high school educations outrageous amounts of money. Any unskilled labor in this country should never be paid more than 15 dollars an hour. Anything a trained circus animal can do should not be done by human hands. Working on an assembly line requires no special skills. The US stubbornly refusing to send work overseas to keep costs down and paying their unskilled workers 25-50 dollars an hour caused them to place themselves in a position that could not compete with the global economy. Go ahead and refute it and flame me to pieces but it is true. I dont care if you are laid off from GM right now because I lived in Lansing for 25 years and saw firsthand how GM worked and let the UAW bend them over and take it year after year. I saw how someone fresh out of high school could go start working at GM and be instantly making 18 bucks an hour while college graduates were barely making 15. I knew people with masters degrees that worked at GM because it paid more than anywhere else they could work. That was insane and finally the bottom fell out. It was too bad something was not done sooner so that many people would at least have a job now but at a much lower wage.

Anyway, that is what "patriotically" buying American got you. If you want American made be prepared to pay for it. You cannot and should not have American made and inexpensive in the same product.

Kimber then entered the picture and probably offers the best (quality, price, options) pistol manufactured in the U.S.


I would almost refute this and say Les Baer has better quality per doller since they are actually making them right and not worrying about price.

[tipoc]

earlthegoat2,

Did you actually mean any of that? Ya really think 18 bucks an hour is a lot of money?

tipoc

[rellascout]

earlthegoat2,

Did you actually mean any of that? Ya really think 18 bucks an hour is a lot of money?

tipo

Straight out of HS with ZERO skills and ZERO experience $18 with primo benefits and a pension plan is pretty sweet.

Again. The average UAW worker, average mid level not entry level, makes $28 an hour or about $58,000 a year. That is a lot of money for unskilled labor.

[LancerMW]

STI is in Texas, im willing to say they make the best 1911's for the price...sorry Dan Wesson

[Dalerj]

How much is the Colt compared to the comparable Springer?

[Clarence]

Ed Brown - built right here in Missouri. I love mine.

[tipoc]

Straight out of HS with ZERO skills and ZERO experience $18 with primo benefits and a pension plan is pretty sweet.

Again. The average UAW worker, average mid level not entry level, makes $28 an hour or about $58,000 a year. That is a lot of money for unskilled labor.

Normally ya don't start out at $28.00 an hour. You start out at less and after a number of years of developing your skills, showing up at 6 in the am, 5 or 6 days a week, for 8-10 hrs. a day, inhaling poisonous chemicals, to work the line, your wages and benefits go up and ought to.

Work in an auto plant is not unskilled for the most part.

$18.00 an hour with benefits is a decent place to start. This is a decent living and far from a lot of money after deductions, taxes, etc.

Some folks begrudge working people decent wages and conditions. They like it better when we fight over cheap wages like dogs over a bone. The "American Way" they claim.

tipoc

[geophysicishooter]

+1 to STI.

Send some of your American Dollars to Texas! They'll send you back a top notch pistol!

and their customer service is phenomenal!

[rellascout]

Except that the low end STI gun is not really a US gun. It is made in the Philippines by armscor.

[HGUNHNTR]

Not if you are a Colt fan. I would gladly pay more for the pony.

[HexHead]

I can't believe how many times I hear of folks wanting to send a 1911 back to the factory for repairs when they have so many 1911 smithing resources available.

Most of the better manufacturers of 1911s now offer lifetime warranties on their pistols. Why pay a local guy?

[HexHead]

Now, I recently purchased another Glock, a G30 to be exact. BECAUSE, it was the best I could find to fill the need I had. I wanted a mini .45 and do not feel that mini 1911's are reliable and was not going to buy one just to buy American.

My Colt New Agent has been every bit as reliable as either of my Glocks.
Before I bought it, I must have read 70-80 pages on various forums looking for complaints about them. I found two, that's two posts. And one of them was related to the recoil spring being put on the guide rod backwards, and that possibility was corrected with the recent recall.

My local dealer has three Colts in the case right now, a Combat Elite, a lightweight Commander and a Series 70 reproduction. Colt's making some very nice pistols these days. That Combat Elite is more than comparable to anything Kimber or Springfield is putting out. And I wouldn't have another of either of those two brands again.

[DRYHUMOR]

American or Foreign, people buy the best they can afford, based on where they are at in life.

Nothing wrong with shooting a 1911 from elsewhere. At least someone out there is shooting. And, the more that shoot, the more they turn on to shooting, and the wheel spins again.

[BrotherIron]

Im new to firearms but did ruger really do that?? if so I'd question ever buying one of their products

[Marty183]

Im new to firearms but did ruger really do that?? if so I'd question ever buying one of their products
Google that...You will find more info and you can make up your mind with more information than just one person ranting on a forum. Bill Ruger Sr. is dead and gone...He opened his mouth when he probably should have kept it shut. I support Ruger now and will in the future...I'm not living in the past.

[tipoc]

Yes Bill Ruger Sr. was an early advocate of a ban on magazines having more than 10 round capacity. In 1989 he wrote to Congress advocating this...

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete, and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining "assault rifles" and "semi-automatic rifles" is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could prohibit their possession or sale and would effectively implement these objectives."

In addition to the furor amongst hunters, sportsmen and shooters caused by "The Ruger Letter", Ruger made additional comments during an interview with NBC's Tom Brokaw that angered 2nd Amendment proponents even further, saying that "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…"

The above is taken from the wikipedia article on Ruger. Ruger was one of the architects of what became known as the Clinton Ban which was enacted in 1994 IIRC. Ruger's position on this was quite thought out and in no way a "slip of the lip". He was one of those who developed the idea of it and advocated for it. He began this prior to Clinton's election. All this was some time back.

tipoc

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I'll second the vote for Ed Brown. The Classic Custom is the finest 1911 being made today ANYWHERE in the world.

Ed Brown Products - Classic Custom (http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00398.1.073366773016227841)

[EddieNFL]

Get over it. Look at where your GM, Ford or Chrysler is "made".

Yet so many buy (not so) "big three" vehicles because they believe in buying American. Looking at a Toyota for the wife and the part content is 100 percent U.S. Moving on...

Don't expect to find very many mass produced anything that is 100 percent US made.

[atlanticfire]

S&W. What about Mr Dan (Wesson)?

[LancerMW]

if i recall correctly only the frame and slide of the STI Spartan is Armscor, internals are all STI and assembled in the U.S. and that is their only gun that they do that with.

[DougDubya]

So, the Colt lovers give not a single care about the AMERICAN CRAFTSMEN put out of work when they decided to forgo the civilian market in the 90's?

'cuz frankly, Smith and Wesson and Ruger never fired their American workforce, but Colt's Manufacturing DID.

Enjoy your tainted 1911's, Colt lovers. Some stink will never die.

[bluecollar]

If you really want to feel "put upon" think about the new house you bought in the last ten years. Part (or most) of its construction was most likely performed by illegal aliens. Sooo, you don't even have to leave the country to buy "foreign" made;)

[DougDubya]

If you really want to feel "put upon" think about the new house you bought in the last ten years. Part (or most) of its construction was most likely performed by illegal aliens. Sooo, you don't even have to leave the country to buy "foreign" made;)
So what you're saying is this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing?

I agree!