Rifle that shoots 22lr and 22 WMR


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Boba Fett
November 10, 2009, 02:55 AM
Are there any rifles, preferably bolt action, which shoot 22lr and 22WMR?


I did a Google search, but only came up with a lot of people asking if they could shoot one out of the other. Most answers were DON'T TRY IT followed by a few "you could, but it'd be unwise." I lean toward the "don't try it" crowd.


So if anyone knows of a rifle that'll shoot both, I'd be very interested.

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CZguy
November 10, 2009, 03:56 AM
There are no rifles that will shoot both .22 LR, and .22 mag.

However there are revolvers that have an extra cylinder that will shoot both.

Jubjub
November 10, 2009, 04:52 AM
.22 Long Rifle uses what is called a heeled bullet, which means that the portion of the bullet inside the case is reduced in diameter and the part outside the case is bore diameter. This also means that the case is bore diameter. The .22 WMR uses conventional bullets, which means that the case is larger than bore diameter by the thickness of the case.

As you've no doubt already read, a .22 LR case will split if fired in a WMR chamber, and of course a .22 WMR wouldn't even fit in a .22 LR chamber.

You can shoot .22 WRF in a .22 WMR. It's an old semi-obsolete load, but still available from Winchester and CCI. It's loaded with a 45 grain bullet at about 1300 FPS, and if it shoots accurately in the individual gun (a big if), makes a dandy small game load. It's no cheaper than .22 WMR, though.

JohnBT
November 10, 2009, 07:56 AM
The Sako Quad will if you buy both barrels. You can shoot 4 rimfire calibers if get all 4 barrels: both .17s and both .22s.

www.impactguns.com/store/sako_rimfire.html

dispatch55126
November 10, 2009, 08:03 AM
I've got an over/under that shoots them fine. Its a 20ga lower barrel and a 22WMR upper barrel but I've shot 22LR out of it for at least 20 years without a problem.

Speedo66
November 10, 2009, 10:04 AM
The Sako Quad will if you buy both barrels. You can shoot 4 rimfire calibers if get all 4 barrels: both .17s and both .22s.

www.impactguns.com/store/sako_rimfire.html

At $1500+ for the set of 4, I think I'd rather have 4 different guns, and still have money for ammo.

rangerruck
November 10, 2009, 10:41 AM
dispatch; have you gone back and tried to shoot 22mag through it?
I would like to know the results.
There was at one time, and expiremental rifle program by the military, just before vietnam, that carbine williams was working on; a real spacegun looking thing, that he had demo'd for the military. At the time, the one he demo'd was a 22lr only, he was also working on one that would fire 22mag. He had a big prob with what the military wanted, and tried of course to steal, so he never went any further with his project.
As for anything else since then, I think your best bet is mentioned above; the Sako quad.

Col. Plink
November 10, 2009, 10:54 AM
I feel better about having asked the same question as the OP not so long ago. I think it can be attributed to how much we wish we could shoot shorts, longs, and magnums out of the same platform. A noble sentiment to be sure.

Now, is the 22WRF just a longer cased, heeled bullet 22LR? If so it sounds like something that could be used with 22LR's in a rifle that could handle different case lengths as the only difference in ammo type. You could certainly use the same revolver cylinder, provided it was long enough, right?

bhk
November 10, 2009, 11:19 AM
The 22WRF has the same case diameter at as the .22 magnum, too wide to fit in a long rifle chamber. I frequently shoot the WRF cartridges in my magnum-chambered, scoped SW 648 revolver when shooting edible small game. They are wonderful for this purpose and shoot to the same point of aim at 50 yards as the magnum shells do. If the purpose of your rifle is for hunting and not for lots of target practice (where ammo price is important), buying a magnum rifle and shooting both magnums and WRFs is the way to go. It makes for a very versitile setup.

atblis
November 10, 2009, 11:26 AM
An alternative to the Sako Quad would be a Ruger 77/22. It would not be a quick swap setup, but swapping barrels from 22lr to 22 mag is easily done with common hand tools. Barrels can be had from Green Mountain for cheap. I have a 17 HMR barrel for my 22lr 77/22. It is a single shot, but for a little bit more money, I could pick up a magazine and the magnum bottom metal, and have a complete conversion.

Col. Plink
November 10, 2009, 11:26 AM
So the door is open for some enterprising individual or incorprated group of individuals to make a magnum-length heeled .22lr! Call it the .22MLR or whatever.

I think you'd have an instant market for revolvers and autoloading pistols/carbines that could handle the different case lengths.

I think we've all imagined being able to load short, lr, and mag length ammo down a 22 tube and shoot the cycle!

ArmedBear
November 10, 2009, 11:27 AM
At $1500+ for the set of 4, I think I'd rather have 4 different guns, and still have money for ammo.

Good luck with that.

There's a companion scope available for the Quad, that has 4 different zeroes.

You can get good rifles in all 4 calibers, with good scopes, for $1500 with money left over?

This isn't a junk rifle.

Now you don't get the real benefit from the thing unless you really want all 4 calibers. But for a quality rifle, it's not out of line if that IS what you want.

Boba Fett
November 10, 2009, 11:51 AM
Well bummer.

Looks like the closest and least expensive route would be the Ruger 77/22 and buy the other barrels. Maybe find a good used one and get the 22 WMR barrel from Green Mountain and maybe come away with it all for around $600. Maybe under if I'm really lucky.

Thanks for all the quick replies.

rcmodel
November 10, 2009, 02:38 PM
But, even then, the Ruger magazines would be different length and not interchangable.
And the bolt face bigger on the Magnum.

As for a non-heeled .22 RF.

Ain't gonna happen.
Ammo would cost the same as .22 Magnum and there would no reason to buy them.
If you want less powful .22 Mag, shoot .22 WRF in them.

rc

scythefwd
November 10, 2009, 03:25 PM
T/C with different barrels. A savage .22 with a custom barrel. There are a lot of options if you want to get into having custom barrels made up :)

atblis
November 10, 2009, 04:14 PM
But, even then, the Ruger magazines would be different length and not interchangable.
And the bolt face bigger on the Magnum.
From what I can tell, Ruger uses the same bolt for the 77/22 for 22 lr, 22 WMR, and 17HMR (same part numbers).

A complete conversion would cost you
~$100 for the barrel
$36 for a new trigger guard
$15 for a magazine.

On my 77/22, I just slap the 17 HMR barrel on, and single load the rounds. Works just fine.

highorder
November 10, 2009, 04:21 PM
There is NO compatability or interchangability between the 10/22 and the 10/22 Magnum.

The receivers, magazines, bolts, etc are different.

The .22WMR and .17HMR are compatable, as is the .22lr and the .17mach2.

Jubjub
November 10, 2009, 09:47 PM
So the door is open for some enterprising individual or incorprated group of individuals to make a magnum-length heeled .22lr! Call it the .22MLR or whatever.

I think you'd have an instant market for revolvers and autoloading pistols/carbines that could handle the different case lengths.

I think we've all imagined being able to load short, lr, and mag length ammo down a 22 tube and shoot the cycle!

It's been done.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k169/obviousfakename/22Bekeart.jpg

The .22 Extra Long wasn't a huge success back in 1880, but the idea is certainly worth revisiting. One problem with the heeled bullet is that the lead has to be soft so that the pressure will expand the heel to bore diameter. That's probably the limiting factor in speeding up that design. Still, I'd love to see someone give it a shot, even if it isn't quite magnum velocity.

rangerruck
November 10, 2009, 10:58 PM
also, IIrw, the diameter of the 22 mag bullets, and the 22 lr bullets are not the same, even the case opening/diameter is not the same as well. I just dont see how it could be done.

bigfatdave
November 11, 2009, 09:56 AM
Why can't anyone check for themselves on this one?
.22LR/L/S and .22wmr/wrf are entirely different families of ammunition, in fact, they are not designed to be compatible because at one point they were competing for the rimfire market.
Yes, it is possible to fire a .22LR from the chamber of a .22mag gun, but you risk split casings and shrapnel in the works of your .22mag gun, if not in yourself.
It sort of works with single-shot firearms, because the chamber is sealed and any debris dumps out.
Some revolvers have a conversion cylinder and a bore diameter that works with either round, in response to market demand and the possibility of "close enough" sizing.

Just because ammo says .22 on it does not make it compatible, and attempts to fire the wrong ammunition in a firearm are rarely wise. Considering the low cost of even premium .22wmr ammo (comparable to really cheap centerfire pistol ammo), even someone as cheap and stingy as I am has no need to save by attempting to use .22lr in a .22wmr chambered gun.

The big problem is that ammunition nomenclature is often made confusing on purpose by marketers and manufacturers, in an attempt to associate one caliber with another in the minds of consumers. If the ".22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire" had been properly labeled as ".224WMR", and the ".22LR/L/S" family been designated as ".223", these questions would be far less frequent.

dispatch55126
November 12, 2009, 11:47 AM
dispatch; have you gone back and tried to shoot 22mag through it?
I would like to know the results.

Yeah, I regularly switch between them. I primarily fire 22lr through it due to cost but if I find a box of 22WMR laying around the farm, I'll shoot that. POI changes but the groupings never change.

Owen
November 12, 2009, 12:22 PM
I thought .22S/L?LR was .221. .22 Hornet is the .223 cartridge, while .223 Remington is .224.

Carl N. Brown
November 12, 2009, 12:34 PM
That .22 Extra Long is a blast from the past.

The .22 LR case is approximately the same outside diameter as the bullet, not much more than .223 to .225; The .22 Magnum bullet is .223-.224 diameter and fits inside the case, so the case is actually about .24 outside diameter. That makes the .22 Long Rifle case a very sloppy fit in a .22 Magnum chamber.

Yes, I too have fired .22 LR in a .22 Magnum and lived to tell the tale. It leads up the front of the chamber where the bullet (undersized for the .24+" chamber) smacks into the rifling. The casings swell and certainly don't fit a .22 LR chamber. If I had to, I could use .22 LR in a .22 Mag, but I recommend against it, unless you are surrounded by rabid coyotes or are starving in the wilderness, and that's all you have to defend/feed yourself.

Evolution of the .22 rimfire was:

year name case bullet wt overall notes

Heeled
1845 BB .284" 20 GR .343" Flobert Bullet Breech cap
1857 Short .423" 29 gr .686" Smith & Wesson cartridge #1
1871 Long .595" 29 gr .798" ?Frank Wesson?
1880 Extra Long .750" 40 gr 1.160" ?
1887 Long Rifle .595" 40 gr .985" J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co
1888 CB .284" 20 gr ---- Conical Bullet version of BB
1975 CCI Stinger .710" 32 gr .985" almost extra long case, semi-Short bullet

Non heeled
1890 WRF .960" 45 gr 1.170" Winchester Rimfire, Remington Special
1903 Win Auto .665" 45 gr .915" Winchester Automatic
1916 Rem Auto .663" 45 gr .920" Remington Automatic
1959 WMR 1.052" 40 gr 1.350" Winchester Magnum Rimfire

Carl N. Brown
November 12, 2009, 12:36 PM
Note the Long Rifle is the Long case (.595") plus the Extra Long bullet (40 gr).

natman
November 12, 2009, 01:00 PM
Firing a 22 LR in a 22 mag is asking for a split case. Won't happen every time, but there's certainly a decent chance.

Closest you'll come is firing 22 WRF (Winchester Rim Fire) in a 22 Mag. Perfectly safe because the 22 Mag is the 22 WRF lengthened. Note warning about firing CCI ammo in revolvers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=126619

rcmodel
November 12, 2009, 02:07 PM
I think the CCI warning is lawyer speak.

The new .22 WRF from both CCI & Speer are so under-powered as to be like shooting .22 LR.

I have shot a bunch of it in Colt Scout & Ruger Single-Six convertibles and there is no safety issue I can see.

The 50 year old .22 WRF ammo I have sounds and acts more like .22 WMR then the new kinder gentler stuff they are loading now.

rc

bigfatdave
November 12, 2009, 06:18 PM
dispatch55126, that's a single-shot, right?
How often do you get a split case? If one is going to try the lr/mag swap, a single-shot is the safest/smartest way to do it, there just isn't enough power there to damage anything, so all one would have to worry about would be leading and brass bits.

JohnBT
November 12, 2009, 07:22 PM
"I too have fired .22 LR in a .22 Magnum"

And I once went backwards at 70 mph in a 1965 VW bug. I don't recommend it either even though I got it stopped before I hit anything like a tree, phone pole or mail box. I thought about trying to spin it back around, but decided against it. :)

You didn't know a 40 hp VW bug would do 70 on patchy snow, did you?

John

dispatch55126
November 12, 2009, 07:46 PM
dispatch55126, that's a single-shot, right?
How often do you get a split case? If one is going to try the lr/mag swap, a single-shot is the safest/smartest way to do it, there just isn't enough power there to damage anything, so all one would have to worry about would be leading and brass bits.

Yes. Its a double barrel, single shot. It has an exposed hammer with a selector switch to select which chamber will fire. I've never had a split case in all of the years that I've fired it. Its been in my family since at least the 40's or 50's and my father and grandfather also interchanged 22WMR and 22LR. I was actually taught by my dad (who was taught by his dad) that 22lr was the preferred caliber as it was cheaper and plenty accurate though I still put 22WMR through it.

Its actually at my dad's house right now so I can't take a picture of it but I'll see if I can find something on the internet.

dispatch55126
November 12, 2009, 07:52 PM
I found it online. Its a Savage Model 24J-DL. The one we have is the version with the brushed nickel receiver.

Savage Model 24J-DL (http://dailygunpictures.blogspot.com/2009/09/savage-model-24j-dl-22-magnum-20-gauge.html)

I've also tried 22 shorts in it but I often get misfires due to light strikes.

bigfatdave
November 12, 2009, 08:53 PM
Shiny toy! I occasionally wonder why I don't pick up a barrel-swapping single-shot shotgun/rifle, it seems that I was waiting for something like your Savage, much classier!

That's odd with the light strikes on shorts, the rim should be the same size as LR. Maybe the LR rounds sit in the chamber better due to length?

dispatch55126
November 12, 2009, 09:10 PM
Its the ultimate nuscience/varmit rifle. 22lr is great for chipmunk/gopher/skunk/woodchuck/similar furry woodland creature that tries to invade one of the out-buildings. Plus, if I don't get a clean kill or if I miss with the 22lr, a 20ga blast finishes the job and makes me smile.

bigfatdave
November 12, 2009, 09:23 PM
I'm grinning just thinking of the "bang ... bang!"

offroaddiver
November 12, 2009, 09:50 PM
LOL wow just thinking... That chipmunk was so big I had to use both barrels. :D

Carl N. Brown
November 15, 2009, 10:32 AM
To my "If I had to, I could use .22 LR in a .22 Mag, but I recommend against it" let me add "If I had to, I could drive 70 mph backward in VW, but I recommend against it." :)

CZguy
November 15, 2009, 12:56 PM
To my "If I had to, I could use .22 LR in a .22 Mag, but I recommend against it" let me add "If I had to, I could drive 70 mph backward in VW, but I recommend against it."

Thank goodness I've reached a point in life, where neither one of those ideas sound appealing. :D

tailwind55sw
November 15, 2009, 10:36 PM
OTT tech makes a barrel for T/C contenders. G2 works best.
called the Jlk barrel. can be any rimfire calaber. top barrel uses rimfire pin on the bottom of its rim bottom uses centerfire pin at the top of it's rim.
Pretty expensiver but you have a double barrel using the selector and a G@ will recock without opening the action.

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