Which AK? Saiga conversion or Arsenal Bulgarian?


PDA






wojownik
November 10, 2009, 10:53 PM
Split decision between a Saiga conversion and the Arsenal AK, either in 7.62x39.

Would appreciate any thoughts/opinions on which of these two rifles might be preferable, and why? Which might be closer to the native "mil spec"

If you enjoyed reading about "Which AK? Saiga conversion or Arsenal Bulgarian?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
nalioth
November 10, 2009, 11:11 PM
Oh, you want aesthetics.

Waste your money on an Arsenal, then.


When you want a functional AK at less expense, the Saiga is the ticket.

Z-Michigan
November 10, 2009, 11:46 PM
Saiga conversions "factory approved" at K-Var for $500... top quality, good price, all the looks you want.

Maverick223
November 10, 2009, 11:53 PM
Oh, you want aesthetics.

Waste your money on an Arsenal, then.Amen...they are no better in any way...other than slightly better finish work, and if that was the goal I would go with a rifle that looks good to begin with (read: not an AK).

:)

Kurt_D
November 10, 2009, 11:56 PM
Yup, K-var is the ticket. Basically it's like this: you want a AK-100 series side folder - get the SLR-107FR; you don't care/want as close to a real Russian AK you can/want to save cash and get a great deal - get the SGL-21.

ETA: for the haters - price out a standard Saiga, plus all of the parts (correct parts, not WECSOG) to get it to the SGL's level, then add the labor for a good smith to do the work or if you have the ability, your time. I promise it will be more than the current $500 asking price. Add a side folder to get to the SLR's level and again you're at their price point. Oh and it's a fact, some of us want an AK to look like an AK, not some bubba'd sks from 1996.

nalioth
November 11, 2009, 12:21 AM
I promise it will be more than the current $500 asking price. So what about when they return to the regular price of ~$1200 ?

Uncle Mike
November 11, 2009, 12:57 AM
Whats up with the Yugo M70's being offered in a 'thick' receiver and a 'thin' (1mm thickness) receiver?

nalioth
November 11, 2009, 01:22 AM
Whats up with the Yugo M70's being offered in a 'thick' receiver and a 'thin' (1mm thickness) receiver? To continue this thread hijack:

The Yugos made 1.0mm receivered M70s early on in their production life, and subsequently went to the beefier receivers as launching grenades tended to destroy the guns with the thinner receivers.

Next time, please start a new thread when you have a completely unrelated question to the topic at hand.

rocinante
November 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
I converted a saiga because it is new construction from the factory, has a chrome lined barrel, russian, and inexpensive (260 shipped two years ago). The only difficult part getting it back to AK looks is the handguard and gas tube.

Shear_stress
November 11, 2009, 09:48 AM
So what about when they return to the regular price of ~$1200 ?

Uh, I guess we'll worry about that then. The strawman of some randomly guessed future price is irrelevent when the guns are available at less cost now. If you actually have a cogent argument as to why the OP shouldn't buy one of those Arsenal SGLs for $500, please save us the suspense.

ny32182
November 11, 2009, 10:04 AM
Get "both"... I just picked up my SGL21 (Arsenal factory Saiga conversion) for $555.44 out the door, all shipping and transfer included...

Yeah, I'm real dissatisfied that I wasted my money on an Arsenal. :scrutiny: (sarcasm there).

On a serious note, so far my opinion is that it is worth every penny over a WASR. I'll see how it shoots this weekend...

I'm actually tempted to get a second one. This is the AK I've been looking for at the price I've wanted, ever since I sold my VEPR.

wally
November 11, 2009, 10:14 AM
ETA: for the haters - price out a standard Saiga, plus all of the parts (correct parts, not WECSOG) to get it to the SGL's level

I converted my 5.45x39 Saiga last Sunday while watching the Colts beat the Texans (much better game than I'd expected!)

Got all the parts at the gun show where I got the gun except for the bullet guide:

Tapco G2 Trigger kit with retainer plate -- $20
Tapco M4 AR Stock -- $30
AK-M4 stock adapter --$13
Pistol Grip, bolt & nut -- $15
Dinzag's bullet guide kit, he generally throws in plastic hole plugs free. -- $35.

Total $113, those are out the door prices, shop around over time and you might even do better. AK74 mags are at Centerfire systems for $13 each. No mods are needed to any of the parts if you don't re-install the bolt hold open lever. If you do, you just need to grind about 0.060" off the right side of the hammer pivot tube to make room for the lever.

That's it. The 5.45 may not need the bullet guide, mine appeared to cycle from AK74 mags with the ammo I had but since my Tantal has the guide I went ahead and added it, no big deal, but it was the single largest expense.


The only difficult part getting it back to AK looks is the handguard and gas tube.

For sure, and while I like the look of the standard setup better, I actually like the feel of the Saiga hand guard better when shooting. Its more expensive than difficult, more than doubling the cost of the conversion.

--wally.

Col. Plink
November 11, 2009, 11:04 AM
Or you can just look for the Saiga308ver.21 and swap out one part and get the configuration you want with a factory wooden thumbhole stock.

iyaoyas98
November 11, 2009, 11:20 AM
Get "both"... I just picked up my SGL21 (Arsenal factory Saiga conversion) for $555.44 out the door, all shipping and transfer included...

Yeah, I'm real dissatisfied that I wasted my money on an Arsenal. :scrutiny: (sarcasm there).

On a serious note, so far my opinion is that it is worth every penny over a WASR. I'll see how it shoots this weekend...

I'm actually tempted to get a second one. This is the AK I've been looking for at the price I've wanted, ever since I sold my VEPR.
I agree. Both. It's got to do better than your 401K :)

wojownik
November 11, 2009, 01:48 PM
Get both ... hmmm ;) I like it, but due to funds I'd have to pick just one. I'm leaning towards the Saiga at the moment.

And yes, I want another "ugly" AK that is built to military specifications (unlike the WASR) but also looks like an AK (if that is called aesthetics).

I have 3 Romanians, but would not touch a WASR. My Romak 1 (1997 pre WASR) has been very good, and if I recall correctly, came off the actual Ratmil military production line (i.e not reject parts). My AIMS built from a G kit has been very satisfactory and surprisingly accurate (for an AK).

iyaoyas98
November 11, 2009, 03:08 PM
If you can only get one. Get the Arsenal while it's on sale for the same price as a restored Saiga. The Saiga's are easy to find cheap later on.

SSN Vet
November 11, 2009, 03:39 PM
while I like the look of the standard setup better, I actually like the feel of the Saiga hand guard better when shooting.

slap your sporter hand gaurd on and end mill and you can have form and function.... :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=75187&d=1206413379

damagedworld
November 11, 2009, 06:12 PM
My converted Saiga in 7.62 x39 is by far my fav gun...

D Boone
November 11, 2009, 06:15 PM
http://www.arsenalinc.com/sgl21.htm

Just my quick take, good looking gun, but why are they highlighting the bayo lug on a gun with ak74 style brake? The bayo lug should be on the FSB to be functional. So its a mismash of parts and thats how they can offer them at that price?

Shear_stress
November 11, 2009, 06:21 PM
why are they highlighting the bayo lug on a gun with ak74 style brake?

Because the same features are present on the real Russian AK-103. Except for the lack of a folding stock, the SGL-21 is about as close to a real AK-103 that most of us will get.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/ak103.shtml

nalioth
November 11, 2009, 07:00 PM
Just my quick take, good looking gun, but why are they highlighting the bayo lug on a gun with ak74 style brake? The bayo lug should be on the FSB to be functional. So its a mismash of parts and thats how they can offer them at that price? It's not a bayonet lug.

It's so you can mount your grenade launcher:

http://www.novarata.net/images/gunporn-74-and-launcher.jpg

Girodin
November 11, 2009, 07:01 PM
My converted Saiga in 7.62 x39 is by far my fav gun...

Sounds like someone who doesn't yet own an S12

damagedworld
November 11, 2009, 07:17 PM
i live in the communist state of NJ which allows me to have an S12 but takes ALL the fun out of it with only the smallest magazine choices allowed, and im pretty sure you can not even have PG because its Semi auto.. so that bumps the 7.62x39 up to the top!

wojownik
November 27, 2009, 12:16 PM
After I posted this thread, I made a decision for the Siaga conversation, but came down with the flu and couldn't drag myself up to call K-var to place an order for the SL-21. When I did, they had just bumped up the price $50. With shipping and FFL fees, this becomes over a $600 rifle again... Bummed...

Agent Smith
November 27, 2009, 08:39 PM
It is still a great buy. It beats making the conversion yourself. However, once the sale is gone, it will be cheaper to do your own conversion.

Personally, I am waiting for $199 Saigas. When that happens, buy them cheap and stack em' deep.


SSN Vet: That is a nice conversion. How long did it take you to do it?

wojownik
December 1, 2009, 03:23 PM
I liked the "buy both" idea, but ... yesterday, I got the news that my company may be downsizing again, and this morning, my wife gave me the news that her unit was defunded. And a Merry Christmas to all... :banghead:

Murphys Law though, this may blow over and I'll be back in the market for an AK, but after K-VAR/Atlantic end the discounts ... And I really don't need/want another Romanian...

iyaoyas98
December 1, 2009, 06:33 PM
:cuss:

There's no better time for an AK than the demise of a civilization. :D

CnRnut
December 1, 2009, 06:44 PM
Do a 5.45 Saiga and stack ammo deep. $107 per 1080 tin now on sale!!!!!

wojownik
December 4, 2009, 02:24 PM
Awright ... I'll take the plunge... $107 is pretty darn good, and the Saiga is just $10 more at Atlantic Firearms...

wojownik
December 4, 2009, 04:08 PM
Well, looks like that deal at Atlantic Firearms is expired too.

Atlantic Firearms
December 4, 2009, 06:31 PM
wojo , what rifle are you looking for ?

wojownik
December 4, 2009, 09:19 PM
Blaine - I'll give you a call / e-mail tomorrow. I'm still pretty jazzed with the Vector V-93 I bought from Atlantic in January, and wouldn't mind doing business with you again... :)

Atlantic Firearms
December 5, 2009, 09:01 AM
10 - 4 , call or email and we will see how we can help U out .

If you enjoyed reading about "Which AK? Saiga conversion or Arsenal Bulgarian?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!