[M&PVolk]

Found a black tungsten blade Leek for just under $50 and I really love the looks of this knife. Sounds like most people who own them love the sharpness of the blade and auto feature. Is it good for EDC and self defense? I think it would make an awesome addition to the J-frame pocket carry. Thoughts?

[blindhari]

If you like the knife $50 worth, you should budget 5 to 10 times that amount for training with a professional.

blindhari

[DT Guy]

Good EDC, but too smooth and slippery for an SD knife, IMHO.

OTOH, whatever knife you have with you is your SD knife, so if it works for you....


Larry

[hso]

Great office setting EDC, but not the best design/size for an intentional SD knife.

[Todd A]

Nice little Light/medium duty EDC. I carried one as an EDC and the only real short comming it has is a fragile tip. So I don't see it as a hard use knife.

I don't choose my knives with SD as a concern. I pick a knife to suit my knife chore needs first. With SD as a last resort any sharp piece of steel is better than nothing.

[Madcap_Magician]

The Leek is a great EDC knife. It's a razor. It shines at cutting, but would make a poor choice for self-defense. The blade is slim and relatively fragile, and the handle is smooth.

[Limeyfellow]

Have to agree with the others. Maybe if you got the one with the G10 handle it will help a lot, but instead I would probably go with something far more grippy like the Kershaw Blur or Spyderco Endura for self defense purposes and an EDC in one.

The Leek is really nice. I have a couple of them (the smoky blue handled one and a stainless steel handled one). I use for light EDC work. Normally that involves opening packing, cutting the occasional wire, cutting food, and so on, but if I want to do some real work, I want a knife that you can grab on to much better.

[PX15]

JMOfartO:

I think the Leek is an excellent choice in a good defensive carry knife.. Of course I don't think a knife of any description is a good "first choice" for self defense and that's why I cc a firearm (LWS380), with the Leek as just extra "insurance", hopefully never needed.

I will be the first to suggest the Leek (or probably any similar knife) with the stainless steel handle is definitely too "slick" for a carry defense choice. My first Leek was the pretty 1660CB (composite blade) but I didn't feel comfortable with the slickness of the handle..

I did a little checking and the next model Leek I bought was the 1660G10 which offers the better S30V blade, but also the G10 handle, which is "anti-slippery", and makes for what I consider a much better carry choice.

You won't be dropping a knife with a G10 handle, and while some consider the 3" blade of the Leek as too short (I don't) in many places having a blade of 3" (or less) might save you from some legal complications should you even find yourself having to actually use the knife for self defense.

I'm been taken to task here already for expounding my limited knowledge of knife laws and such, so please take my opinions, and suggestions, with a grain of salt.

I think the Leek is a very good choice for ME, but might not be precisely the best choice for you. I suggest you visit a good knife store and see and handle for yourself any knives you might be interested in.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1481.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1485.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1488.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1364.jpg

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The Leek:

For EDC, yes, fantastic; none better, particularly for dressy type pants where you want a slimline.

Self-defense, yeah, sorta; it's not terrible in that area - obviously it can be very sharp and the thin profile can easily thrust into an attacker. But it's not overly long (hard to reach the vitals on a large/obese attacker), and though well-built, it's not a super-tough hard use knife. Being thin, it could certainly break the tip off if you hit bone or a watch or other hard object.

Now as for *deployment* speed, it's fantastic, due to the AO. And that's a key factor in a self-defense scenario, so I'd actually give it a "better than AVERAGE" rating for self-defense, as pocket folders go, for this reason alone.

As for toughness of the steel itself, well the Leek comes in several different steels, so for fighting, you're better off giving up some hardness & retention to obtain more toughness.

Right now I'm carrying that same G10/S30V Leek pictured above by PX15 (the black handled one). I carry it most days; rotate it with a few others: Kershaw "Avalanche", Gerber "Applegate-Fairbairn Combat Folder", Kershaw "SpecBump", CRKT "Desert Cruiser", Kershaw "Needs Work" mainly. Occasionally the Gerber "AF Mini-Covert", Outdoor Edge "Pocket Lite", aluminum handled Kershaw Leek....

[PX15]

FWIW:

Regarding the Leek as an effective choice, in a knife, for self defense?

Well, I'm basically new to the knife world as it relates to carrying one for self defense.

Where I live (S.E. Ga) I never carried a knife because a "switchblade" is illegal, and I'm an old fart (67), so a plain old folding knife wouldn't do me much good if it had to be quickly opened..

Then I stumbled on the Kershaws offering the "SpeedSafe" one finger INSTANT OPENING knives and I believe they offer, to me, the rapid, or instant opening blade of a "switchblade", but in what is legal form for where I live.

I can't imagine a switchblade being opened much quicker than my SpeedSafe opening Kershaw Leeks. I also have a much larger Kershaw Tyrade with the same opening technology but while it opens extremely quickly, just using one finger, it is not lightening quick as are my Leeks.

As to the reasonable expectations for self defense of any knife with a 3" blade? Well, since I got interested in carrying a knife I have spoken to several folks who have more experience in such things and they all agree that for most regular folks (not Navy Seals, etc)) a self defense knife such as the Leek is not used primarily as a deep cut weapon anyway.. It is used to SLASH the aggressor rather than deep penetration... You slash and cut anyplace you can reach, hoping such actions will deter the aggressor into leaving you alone.

Nobody in their right mind wants to be cut, and if you are attacked by someone who doesn't care if you cut him/her or not then no matter what blade you have it probably won't do what you want it to do.

So I've been told to have a good grip on your knife and SLASH the crap out of whoever is confronting you... Face, arms, anyplace with the goal to have that person realize attacking you is more trouble than it is worth..

Is such a knife with a TWELVE inch blade better than a Leek with a 3" blade?

No doubt.

But the knife you can have with you is light years better than the one with the longer blade back at the house.

Is my CS45, or HK P2000sk better for self defense than my Seecamp LWS380?

No doubt..

But I can carry my LWS380 EVERYPLACE, all the time, and I cannot do that with my larger firearms.

I have found the Leek just vanishes in the pocket... It IS clipped to the top of the pocket and the very tip of the knife handle is visible, but it's ALMOST invisible unless someone is looking for you to have a knife in your pocket. The Leek is thin and light and IMO offers a maximum of knife protection in the smallest, most discrete package.

The Leek when carried in the pocket by the clip is by definition NOT a "concealed weapon", the 3" blade "seems" to be the maximum length most accepted by leo's as "legal" in my little redneck part of the world. Until and unless you have actually held a Leek, seen the one finger "SpeedSafe" (flipper) in action you simply cannot understand what a nice little self defense knife selection it is.

No offense to those who might disagree with me on this subject as I don't know crap about knives other than what I've said, and even that could be wrong.. I do know what works for me, and until something better comes along my little Kershaw Leek 1660G10 makes every trip I make.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. Here's more food for thought.. Don't know where YOU live, but it seems here in Georgia 99% of leo's, particularly the rural types have absolutely NO clue as to what is legal or illegal when it comes to a regular citizen carrying a knife for self defense... So whatever you chose to carry in a knife could still get you some heartburn if you have to use it, but if you are carrying a knife YOU know to be legal then a good attorney should get any charges made against you regarding the legality of the knife dropped.

[conwict]

I don't like it for SD at all, its handle is totally wrong for that IMO. Also the angles are off. It's not an optimal stabby knife because of the lack of grip, and the straight blade profile and shorter blade would make it an inefficient slasher. But I guess you could make it work.


The Shallot in CPM-S110V steel looks like it has what you like about the Leek - Ken Onion design and AO - and bypasses the issues I mentioned. Although you would need to add a little bit of grip tape for grippiness
I think.

[ArfinGreebly]

I'm with the "great EDC, dubious for SD" crowd.

I have carried the Leek, and it's a great little EDC knife.

My grip is somewhat impaired (that bum knuckle thing), so I need something with a more substantial grip for anything beyond usual EDC applications.

For SD, I dunno. I can get an almost decent grip using an inverted hold with thumb-cap, but I'd have to get seriously lucky.

I'm not sure how you define "winner" in a knife fight, except that the "winner" might be the guy who was somewhere else.

I'm far enough past my prime that I have to depend more on wits and awareness. If it gets to the point where I need to use a knife for SD, then it's time for me to prepare myself to take whatever punishment comes my way in a desperate fight for my life.

[hso]

I'm not sure how you define "winner" in a knife fight

AG,

The "joke" goes something like, "How can you tell the winner from the looser in a knife fight? The "winner" rides in the ambulance, the looser in the morgue wagon." Or "The winner is the one that spends the least amount of time in the hospital." OR "The winner goes to the hospital while the looser goes to the morgue."

If you have a knife and you need to use it for SD it had better be easy to get to, easy to open, easy to keep ahold of and sharp. After that it's all a question of finding the knife that does all that for you.

[skwab]

I own several Kershaws so from a quality standpoint they are great - but you might want to look at. I've ordered most of mine from here:

http://www.thekershawstore.com/

Good prices, very quick shipping with standard shipping - if you order enough it's free, but take a look at some of the other Kershaws and you might find one that better suits you if you decide the Leek isn't for you. My EDC is the Kershaw R.A.M. - doesn't have speed assist but is a very quick assisted opener, but the shallot is another good one, as is the blur - but look at the sight and you'll have an idea of all they offer.

[conwict]

The junkyard dog 2 and lahar are also nice, grippy hefty kershaw designs.

[TimboKhan]

I don't choose my knives with SD as a concern. I pick a knife to suit my knife chore needs first. With SD as a last resort any sharp piece of steel is better than nothing.

Pretty much my feelings exactly. I don't cast aspersions on those who carry a knife for SD, but that is the last thing I worry about when I buy a knife, and in fact isn't a concern at all. If a knife is good enough for what I generally use a knife for day in and day out (which does not include knife-fighting), that is all I care about.

I will say that some of my knives do occasionally get carried with SD as a concern. I didn't buy my Endura for SD, but if I know I am heading into an area where the chances of getting attacked are higher than the norm that's the knife I carry. I can deploy it as fast as I need to, either by using the thumbhole or flicking my wrist: If I need to get it open faster than that, I am already screwed, I think!

[conwict]

I think avoiding fights in general, and knife fights in particular, is a wise move...however, fights being dynamic, unpredictable, and obviously sometimes inavoidable, I've decided that a knife and some knowledge of basics for self-defense could be a lifesaver. It's not that it's better than a firearm...it isn't...but it's very different, and I can't possibly envision all scenarios and rule that a knife wouldn't save my life. I know I'd much rather have it than nothing if my gun malfunctioned and I was backed into a corner.

Not necessarily in this thread, but I sometimes notice a mentality that almost says "I refuse to learn or consider knife fighting skills, because that would be the worst possible combat scenario to be involved in." Kind of one dimensional thinking if you ask me.

[7X57chilmau]

I'll add my voice to the chorus here: I carry a Leek CB, and have for about 8 months now. A very nice little EDC utility knife, I've found the D2 edge easy to establish and maintain (takes a bit longer than my 5160 blades, but not much.... Holds much better).

I find the grip comfortable and secure enough for most use. I can imagine situations where it may be somewhat slippery, but its shape also leads to decent retention then, I think.

Like so many others here, I don't carry for SD. I carry tools. I choose tools appropriate to the tasks I anticipate, and the leek and a little home made fixed blade (smaller than leek) suit my needs very well.

If I enter a knife fight, I've already lost. I'd put money on my never being in one, actually.... But I'll not be unarmed should the time come.

J

[TimboKhan]

"I refuse to learn or consider knife fighting skills, because that would be the worst possible combat scenario to be involved in." Kind of one dimensional thinking if you ask me.

I don't know that I would say I don't consider them or actively refuse to learn, but I basically have no interest in learning specific knife fighting skills. I know how to stab, I know how to slash. Past that, I think actually learning how to knife-fight is sort of a waste of my time.

I say that because A: I doubt very, very seriously that I will ever be in a "knife fight" and B: I can think of at least 5 skills that I need to devote time to that are much more important than knife-fighting. Given time, I am sure I could think of many more.

[conwict]

I guess we agree somewhat Timbo. Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just think that a knife and the will to use it if necessary makes a good backup to a gun. I haven't taken any formal training for knife fighting but do practice some slashes and fast deployment, etc.

[PX15]

FWIW:

Statistics show that the average citizen (non-leo) who carries a concealed firearm has less than a 4% chance of ever using that weapon for self defense over a lifetime beginning at puberty and extending to the time the carrier qualifies for social security payments.

Additionally, statistics also show that the average citizen (non-leo) who carries an edged weapon, IN ADDITION TO, a firearm has less than 1/16 of one percent chance of needing that edged weapon for self defense over a lifetime extending from the age of puberty and extending to the time the carrier qualifies for social security payments.

There are no statistics for those who carry either a firearm or an edged weapon prior to puberty, and those statistics that are available for senior citizens who carry a firearm, or edged weapon are suspect.

So, in the spirit of those statistics, and being a senior citizen (67) I don't carry my firearm, nor my knife in the expectations of actually having to use either or both of them in my own self defense.

I carry a firearm because I have that right as a citizen of the United States, the 2nd Amendment says so, I have always enjoyed firearms, and it gives me a feeling of security, or peace of mind, regarding security when I have one on my person.

My recent interest in also carrying a knife is for those same reasons.

I have no argument with those who chose to carry neither weapon because carrying a weapon is a personal choice.. But I believe the statement that goes somewhat like "when seconds matter, police are only minutes away", and IF, heaven forbid, I find myself in a situation where "seconds count", I hope to have options that don't include waiting for the police to arrive to bail my old butt out, only to arrive several minutes too late...:barf:

I've been carrying a concealed firearm, legally, for over 40 years, with nary a need to even display it, much less shoot it. I fully expect to finish off my "three score and ten", or whatever time I have left, never having to use either my pistol or my knife in self defense.

But I'm determined to carry both as long as I can do so responsibly.

Just personal opinion, no offense to those who might disagree, and yes, I made up those statistics much in the manner that our esteemed President and his staff* seem to do on a regular basis regarding the economy and anything else not going their way at any particular moment.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

*
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_9456_01.jpg

[hso]

I was wondering where those numbers came from.;)

[M&PVolk]

I think some are confused as to the reason I mentioned self defense when asking about this knife. I certainly NEVER intend to be in a knife fight. I intend NEVER to be in a gun fight, either. That said, I have no idea what any one day will bring.

There are times when a knife would be the only thing I could carry. There are still other times that a knife might make a legitimate backup tool...see the Leek and Seecamp photo above.

I want a solid, attractive and very sharp tool that can also be forced into a decent defensive role should it (God forbid) ever be needed. The Leek clearly meets the sharp, attractive and solid standards, all that is left is whether or not it can be a decent implement if called upon.

FWIW, the Leek is now competing against the Shallot in my consideration. That Shallot isn't quite as attractive as the Leek, but might be more practical for all around use.

[Black Toe Knives]

I am a big fan of Kershaw. MY wife carries a Kershaw. I carried a Scallion for years. I just recent changed it for EnerG 2.

[conwict]

It's clear which one is better for self-defense...I agree, though, that leeks have a certain elegance shallots lack.

http://www.stumblerz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/leek.jpg


http://www.restaurantwidow.com/images/2007/09/01/shallot.jpg

[PX15]

And...

A picture is worth a thousand words....

Jesse