.30 AR vs. 7.62x39mm - External Ballistics


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 11, 2009, 12:10 PM
Go! :)

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R.W.Dale
November 11, 2009, 01:47 PM
What's to argue

39rar pushes the same weight bullet about 400fps than 7.62x39 can from the ar15 platform or about 200 fps more than my thermonuclear pressure 30HRT loadings


To put that in context 400fps that's about the same diffrence as 308win vs 300win mag.



EDIT TO ADD. The 30 RAR numbers given on remingtons page are in error. They give the energy value in place of velocity

SSN Vet
November 16, 2009, 09:11 PM
Is this cartridge brandy new, or have I been asleep at the wheel?

What does it compare to balistically? 7.62x39?

I guess I don't really get it....

SSN Vet
November 16, 2009, 09:20 PM
O.K. I found this link....

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/

Does anyone out there think that 30RAR has any kind of a future? I'm not sure they'll be able to get enough Fuds (like me) to sign up for a tacticool deer slayer. And with only a 4 round single stack, I kind of doubt that the Zombie crowd will bit either.

BushyGuy
November 16, 2009, 09:30 PM
i did some research on it its as powerful as the ak47 but way more accurate.
only downfall is its hard to find ammo for it cuz not everyone has it cuz its a new caliber.

any AR15 lower can be used with the 30 Rem upper only difference is the magazine and barrel. i think the 30 rem is better then the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 creedmoore.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 16, 2009, 09:30 PM
Thanks - That's quite a step up from the x39 then isn't it? Very impressive. Surprised the bolt and buffer system of the AR15 style can handle this round.

MT GUNNY
November 16, 2009, 09:41 PM
I plan on purchasing a upper, which they are going to offer. Now I dont have to buy a AR-10!

hammerklavier
November 16, 2009, 10:08 PM
I think if these rounds will fit an unmodified magazine you should be able to get more than four in a 20 or 30 round mag. The mag shown looks kind of short.

Notice how quickly the velocity/energy drops off compared to a .308, why is that? (Yes, yes, BC, but why can't they find a better bullet?)

Are they ever going to start making R-15s in colors besides camo? I don't like camo rifles.

This round will probably go the way of Winchester's super short magnum series for the same reasons.

R.W.Dale
November 16, 2009, 10:21 PM
Thanks - That's quite a step up from the x39 then isn't it? Very impressive. Surprised the bolt and buffer system of the AR15 style can handle this round.

From what I understand the bolt, receiver and bbl extensions are the same diameter as an AR10 with lengths shorted to fit the AR15 lower

Birdhunter1
November 16, 2009, 11:09 PM
The 30 Ar is a renamed .30 Remington which has been around a long time. Ballistics will be about the same as a 30-30 Winchester. 30 Rem can take pointed bullets while the 30-30 Winchester it is rare to find pointed bullets doue to most of them being loaded into lever guns. Other than that the only difference is teh case head, 30-30 Win have a rim like that of a .357 mag or .45 Colt where teh 30 rem has a rimless design like a .243 or 308.

Loading data (if you reload) will be the same for a 30-30 and a 30 rem but keep in mind you can use pointed type bullets in the 30 rem. Figure it about a 200-250 yard gun max in a hunting situation for deer.

R.W.Dale
November 16, 2009, 11:16 PM
The 30 Ar is a renamed .30 Remington which has been around a long time. Ballistics will be about the same as a 30-30 Winchester. 30 Rem can take pointed bullets while the 30-30 Winchester it is rare to find pointed bullets doue to most of them being loaded into lever guns. Other than that the only difference is teh case head, 30-30 Win have a rim like that of a .357 mag or .45 Colt where teh 30 rem has a rimless design like a .243 or 308.

Loading data (if you reload) will be the same for a 30-30 and a 30 rem but keep in mind you can use pointed type bullets in the 30 rem. Figure it about a 200-250 yard gun max in a hunting situation for deer.


Almost everything in your posting Birdhunter1 is completely WRONG as it relates to this topic.

The 30 Remington AR or .30RAR shares NOTHING with the old 30rem aside from part of the name and the bullet diameter.

The closest thing to this new cartridge from remington would be the 30BR or old .308x1.5" wildcat

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485924 these threads should be merged

pics courtesy of accurateshooter.net and stevespages.com

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd30remington.jpg

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/30rarop.png

Acera
November 16, 2009, 11:54 PM
You would think that with Remington, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. all owned by the same company there would have been a bigger push.

They should have flooded the market with cheap uppers to swap out with a few months ahead of deer season. Poor marketing will be the downfall of this round. It has potential, and we could use another way to make the AR more hunter friendly. The more common ARs become in traditional hunting roles, the less chance they will be able to ban them.

rangerruck
November 16, 2009, 11:55 PM
the genius of this rifle and round is this; except for the bolt, and the bbl, everything else is straight ar 15, a2, m4gery, etc. Nothing else changes, and it even uses ar mags, I think a 30 rounder will hold 25 of these. the bullet is about 125 grains, at about 2600 fps or a bit more. So about 300 fps faster than a ak.
so with an upper change, you now get a 30 cal bullet, slightly downpowered from a 308, without having to change jack, except the bbl and bolt, of your current ar. Brilliant , I have had no desire for an ar, but now I do...

Maverick223
November 16, 2009, 11:58 PM
6.5Grendel seems like a cartridge much better suited to the AR IMO. It offers better ballistics for hunting as well as target shooting, with nearly as much energy. The .30RAR may have better ballistics than the x39, but you can shoot the x39 a lot more for the same amount of cash...and that is the biggest attractor to the cartridge IMO.

:)

R.W.Dale
November 17, 2009, 12:04 AM
6.5Grendel seems like a cartridge much better suited to the AR IMO

you know what, ALL these new offerings are well suited to the AR15. I don't understand the Highlander"there can only be one" mentality folks have when it comes to medium bore cartridge choices suitable for the AR15. I won't be happy till the list of AR15 cartridge choices is as long as that for the Remington 700

Maverick223
November 17, 2009, 12:16 AM
I won't be happy till the list of AR15 cartridge choices is as long as that for the Remington 700Whatever floats your boat...just my thoughts on the subject. I do like other cartridge offerings (particularly the new thumpers: .458SOCOM and .50Beowulf), but feel this one is a bit superfluous.

:)

rangerruck
November 17, 2009, 11:30 AM
the beauty of the 30ar is , very few, if any changes need to be done to your existing ar. I think only the bolt, and the bbl;maybe not even the bolt. Even your current mags work, I think they will hold 25 30ar rounds, in a 30 round mag.

THE DARK KNIGHT
November 17, 2009, 11:40 AM
Impressive round. But when 1,000 rounds of 30rar is about $210 and the rifle to shoot it costs $500, then I'll be impressed :)

Bigfoot
November 17, 2009, 01:24 PM
Isn't the 30 RAR a single stack? I know that the factory supplied magazine is.

If I were to buy a 30 cal single stack hunting AR it would be the 300OSM (necked up WSSM case) from Olympic, 150 grain bullets at 3000 fps.

If I wanted a high capacity version I'd stick with the 7.62x39.

R.W.Dale
November 17, 2009, 01:28 PM
If I were to buy a 30 cal single stack hunting AR it would be the 300OSM (necked up WSSM case) from Oympia, 150 grain bullets at 3000 fps.

It is going to be interesting to see which one of these gets into the marketplace with the biggest splash capturing the most hearts and minds. Kinda like VHS vs BETA, Nintendo vs SEGA or WSM vs RSAUM

If I wanted a high capacity version I'd stick with the 7.62x39.

then you'll be disappointed. Magazines holding more than 8rds for 7.62x39mm in my experience have been a dicey proposition at best

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 17, 2009, 02:47 PM
If I were to buy a 30 cal single stack hunting AR it would be the 300OSM (necked up WSSM case) from Olympic, 150 grain bullets at 3000 fps.

If I wanted a high capacity version I'd stick with the 7.62x39.

Interesting analysis Bigfoot - that makes sense to me, too.

Mr. T
November 17, 2009, 05:13 PM
Acera -- you've got it! They don't want this to be successful. The "they" I'm mentioning is Cerberus. Why would they poison their own product's success? They would do it for the benefit of military sales versus having to rely on civilian sales. It's carrot and stick approach used by the government; "Quid Pro Quo" arrangement. The government wants the "Black Rifle" nostalgia go away...how else to do that than to eliminate the need for "Black Rifles" and label them "Bad Guns". Cerberus collects a number of the "Black Rifle" manufacturers under a single umbrella through acquisition, to control what they do and how they do it. They're doing this for the carrot at the end of line...they're banking on all those government sales at the end of the rainbow. The government doesn't want you and I to have certain types of guns with ammo capacities over 5 rounds. Very few viable large game guns have ammo capacities above 4 or 5 rounds....that's done by control exerted from the government. Cerberus doesn't just own gun manufacturers either...they're an interesting read if you got the time.

Avenger29
November 17, 2009, 05:53 PM
Cerberus collects a number of the "Black Rifle" manufacturers under a single umbrella through acquisition, to control what they do and how they do it.

Relax. Cereberus has Bushmaster and DPMS. Still a whole lot of other manufacturers out there other than those two.

cougar1717
November 17, 2009, 06:15 PM
I understand that many people have their favorite AR platform cartridge, but this is getting a little ridiculous. Off the top of my head, someone chambers an AR in 17rem, 204ruger, 222, 223, the WSSM's, 5.7, 6.8, 7.62x39, 6.5G, 450B, 50Beo, and now this. This can be likened to the magnum wars of the 50's and 60's. Some calibers will remain, but I believe many of these made specifically for the AR platform will fade into the obscurity of a low volume, niche market.

MJR007
November 17, 2009, 06:28 PM
I am running out of case with 120gr .257 pills in my wssm AR. A 30wssm AR would be a very hard sell to me.

Kernel
November 17, 2009, 06:37 PM
Very few viable large game guns have ammo capacities above 4 or 5 rounds....that's done by control exerted from the government.
Double rifles only hold 2 rounds!! Therefore, the government must be controlling them TWICE as much. Dude, take off the tin foil hat.

Back to Topic.

Let the battle of the Largest Case Capacity begin. (About time, ammo makers. I've been waiting 20 years). Take the winner, neck it down to 6.5mm or 7mm, and go hunting. Either would be an awesome deer cartridge for the AR platform.

Vern Humphrey
November 17, 2009, 06:39 PM
I don't see this cartridge making a lot of headway. It seems to me that if you have an AR 15-type rifle, and if you want to use it for deer, and if you don't want to use the 5.56X45 (.223 Rem) for that purpose, and you have the bucks to buy a new upper, this is for you.

I don't see a lot of people meeting all those ifs.

lobo9er
November 17, 2009, 07:04 PM
Cerberus wow good info MR T kinda scary i just started reading i will read on. they own smith and wesson i just read very wierd. And they took BIG BAIL OUT MONEY. Which means BIG GOV is there owners lol and china currently owns our BIG GOV! A tangled web we weave :)

Brian Williams
November 17, 2009, 07:48 PM
17rem, 204ruger, 222, 223, the WSSM's, 5.7, 6.8, 7.62x39, 6.5G, 450B, 50Beo, you forgot 221 fireball, 300whisper etc.

ulav8r
December 10, 2009, 12:50 PM
I hope the RAR lasts for a while. I have been considering using a BR case in a shortened 98 Mauser. The brass is now hard to find and is expensive. If the RAR lasts a while I will try to get a 1000 or so cases and make up an action with three barrels, one in .257, one in .30 and one in .358. The .257 would get the most use.

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