[CrazyIrishman]

Hi Everyone,


A good buddy of mine who has property just outside of Cumberland,Md is starting to see alot more bear sign than usual, so he called earlier asking which would be a good caliber for black bear.

I told him nothing smaller than a 44 mag with the hottest load that he can handle with VG accuracy. While I have experience with shooting and reloading different 44 mag loads I never hunted bear or had to be prepared for a confrontation with one.

I suppose he could use a larger caliber with low power (downloaded) ammo. The key to this IMO is accuracy especially with dangerous animals.


With all of the latest offerings in large caliber revolvers what is the best load and caliber combination to use? I haven't kept up with the "latest 'n greatest" improvements.

Ideally, he's looking for something to stop a bear with 1 or 2 shots. He's about 5 ft 9" tall and about 165 lbs I guess. His experience with anything larger than a 357 was using a Ruger RedHawk 44 mag for a short time.



Thanks,

CI

[Mainsail]

Let me be the first to say that nothing less powerful than an A-10 Warthog is sufficient to stop a bear, any bear, even a tiny one.
http://oklahomaairshow.com/a-10_1.gif

That's the way these threads always go.

The reality is that from all the way back in the days of cowboys, the 45 Colt was powerful enough for bears, cougar, and yes, cows. For a MD bear he'll be suitably armed with .45 or 10mm. If he can shoot a .44 or .41 magnum, that's bonus. The chances he'll ever need it are very remote.

EDIT to add: .357 Magnum is probably good too!

I carry a G20 in 10mm for remote (no trails - no route) hikes far from civilization. I gave up my Ruger Alaskan because it was too heavy for lightweight backpacking.

[Dambugg]

How about a .357 mag for bear? I really want an sp101 3inch model for a hiking gun but would like to have enough gun for the worst case scenario. Sorry if this off topic.

[Oro]

Let me be the first to say that nothing less powerful than an A-10 Warthog is sufficient to stop a bear,

But only if you are using deep penetrating DU rounds, of course...

Seriously, search this forum and the revolver one with the words "bear" and "defense" and you will find more lengthy threads and advice than you can shake a stick at. It would be much more profitable for you than yet another bear thread. Nothing against you for asking, but there's a huge archive of threads and these are always go sideways fast and end up multi-pages long of the same opinions.

[tipoc]

Another bear thread:barf:

There are more threads on this topic than there are bears. The advice on the threads is likely more dangerous as well.

Try the search function.

tipoc

[CrazyIrishman]

Thanks for the advice Oro! I'll do that.

[rondog]

12 gauge pump with the hottest and hardest sabot slugs he can find. I'd want BIG hunks of HARD lead going in as DEEP as possible!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/sabotslug01.jpg

[mljdeckard]

Here's the problem: Bears have a very slow heart rate. This means, even if you manage to hit the heart, he still has an easy two minutes to decide how to ruin your life. there are many stories of all kinds of bears taking lethal hits from heavy magnum cartridges and still wreaking havoc.

The better solution is a central nervous system hit. But most will agree, this isn't any easier in a bear than it is a human when the adrenaline is running. Shooting the skull is an option, but if you take a look at how it is built, you have to get a VERY good hit to make it to the brain with any handgun round.

Start thinking more along the lines of 45-70 or shotgun slugs, hard-cast bullets. You want all the penetration you can get.

Or, as suggested above, leave it alone and call for an air or mortar strike, or the local fish cop.

[9mmepiphany]

i agree, leave it alone...the castle doctrine doesn't apply to bears...it's better to retreat

if you have to run, run downhill...they are slower going downhill than uphill

[dairycreek]

I have had more than my share of encountering black bears in the woods. Conventional wisdom has it that black bears when encountered will tend to run away and that is absolutely correct. Of all the black bears I met in the woods they went the other way. But twice the bears decided that they did not like me and came after me. One bear was a mother with a cub (I inadvertently got between her and the cub) and I was able to climb a tree and out wait her.

The other bear turned out to be a seriously ill animal whose behavior became unpredictable. She came for me and there was no doubt that had she reached me she would have raised pure hell with my aging body. I used a Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum and stopped her with one shot to the chest at about 7-10 yards. IMHO there is no way that I could have stopped her with anything less. I do not think that a 357 magnum will give you a chance at a one shot stop the way the 240 grain 44 mag. did.

If you are going to have to shoot a bear you want to do it in the fastest, most humane way possible and, to me, that means a large calliber handgun, or even better, a shotgun or rifle. Absolutely do not under estimate the strength and tenacity of a black bear.

[Confederate]

My advice is not to get in a situation where you have to shoot it. Most bears will not attack without first checking you out. Your best bet is to use a good fog grade of pepper spray. Pepper spray shuts down sinusus and temporarily blinds the animal, and many outdoorsmen tell me it works. If you absolutely must shoot the bear, aim for the mouth -- do not shoot at the head as your bullet will deflect off the skull and greatly anger the animal. My own choice would not be to kill it, but to drive it off and report the incident.

Your load also needs to penetrate if you do shoot. A .357 with a heavy 158-180 gr JSP should work fine. These make lousy loads to use against people, but do better against heavier, denser animals.

Again, pepper spray is my number one choice.

[CrazyIrishman]

I understand that the best thing is not to get into a confrontation with a bear in the first place.

My buddy and I also agree that its not right to kill just for the hell of it. There were many times I went hunting and didn't bring anything home to eat like deer or squirrel, yet I still had a great time in the woods!

Maybe the majority of bears would run away from a human which is just fine, however, if one comes at you like you're his "happy meal" I believe that you should be prepared.

If you want to use "bear spray" thats fine too, but thats not the only defense I would have available. Personally I wouldn't use anything smaller than a 44 mag handgun or have a 12 gauge w/ slugs .


I would rather have it (a weapon)and NOT need it, than NEED it and NOT have it!

[AKElroy]

+1 to having the bear spray w/ a potent carry choice. I have read, but cannot confirm, as these reports can be anti-biased, that the bear sprays are very effective. My personal choice would be my Blackhawk .44, plus bear spray.

If they cannot see or smell due to the spray, you have a good shot at escape. Shooting them, unless a CNS hit is luckily performed, still leaves them with the ability to see and smell. And a real bad attitude.

[Carne Frio]

I prefer a quality bear type pepper spray plus a 12g with Brenneke slugs.
Here is what they recommend in my neighborhood:

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

[Tennessee Ned]

I'd just go with something standard like the 4-3 or the nickel. Don't forget to blitz on 3rd and long.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot ;)

[MICHAEL T]

I prefer to stay out of the bears home You don't want him in you home and I can see were he might not be happy your in his.
But how many real bear attacks are their in USA a year This thread will have more replies than attacks I bet.

[Grey Morel]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/35/165656992_92c7aef526.jpg

[AKElroy]

But how many real bear attacks are their in USA a year This thread will have more replies than attacks I bet.

True, but the same can be said for CCW. It is about peace of mind. I have had the uneasy feeling of being in dangerous situations unarmed, and I did not like it.

I have also camped in national parks unarmed, covered in beans & franks that I spilled all over myself, and stayed awake all night worried about being dismembered by bears. Guns & pepper spray are good.

[NavyLCDR]

You only need a .22 and a buddy to stop a bear. The .22 is to slow down your buddy enough to stop the bear. :D

[Grey Morel]

Rational men bend their thoughts towards rational things, and prepare accordingly.

I've met a bear in the woods. Stumbled up on him while hiking with my wife. The bear was 10 feet away or less. I yelled at him, and he turned tail and ran.

Unless your unfortunate enough to stumble onto a sow Grizz with a young cub, or spend your vacation in a tourist trap where campers feed them, bears are little to fear.

Are you 1/2 as prepared for inclement weather or a broken ankle as you are the daemon bear? I would like to see a percentage of gun board posters who actually spend time in bear territory... Judging by the 4 or 5 post per day on every gun forum on the internet, people must be flocking to Kodiak in droves.

[Cayoot]

Are you 1/2 as prepared for inclement weather or a broken ankle as you are the daemon bear?

The ankle is what really scares me. When I go through a soft spot, or get snaged and fall down a steep hill while snow shoeing, my foot often gets torked into some scary positions. I'm far enough out and no where near a beaten trail, it would be hard for me to get help. Cell phone doesn't work out there where I run my traps and where I go for enjoyment. I still haven't been able to figure out the best way to handle that one. There wouldn't be anyone at home for hours.

Hmmmm, Guess I'll have to try to devise some sort of splint that would be easy to carry and put into position.

[rondog]

The ankle is what really scares me. When I go through a soft spot, or get snaged and fall down a steep hill while snow shoeing, my foot often gets torked into some scary positions. I'm far enough out and no where near a beaten trail, it would be hard for me to get help. Cell phone doesn't work out there where I run my traps and where I go for enjoyment. I still haven't been able to figure out the best way to handle that one. There wouldn't be anyone at home for hours.

Hmmmm, Guess I'll have to try to devise some sort of splint that would be easy to carry and put into position.


You might see if there's such a thing as an inflatable emergency ankle splint that you inflate with a small pump. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something like that, but I have no idea where to look, other than Google.

And you should research into personal GPS emergency locator beacons. If you get hurt out in the toolies, you just activate the beacon and it sends a signal to a satellite, calling for help with your coordinates/location. You might find these things at some kind of big hiking or outdoor supply place, maybe REI.

[mgkdrgn]

First, since your friend is in Maryland, handguns are pretty much out. No open carry, and your chance of getting a CCW are somewhat less than slim and none.

Brown/Black bears are not nearly as nasty as Grisly's, but if you get one in a foul mood it can still ruin your day.

A 12G shotgun with slugs will take down anything that walks in North America. A nice lever gun in 44Mag, 454 Casull / 45 Colt will too.

[Dr.Rob]

1. don't eat the bear's porridge

2. do not feed the bears marshmellows

3. do not pet the bears

4. do not taunt the bears by wearing clothing made of meat

5. and lastly, please please please USE the search function.

[geronimo509]

http://www.mcall.com/news/all-alpaca-bear-111109-cn,0,7112182.story
A baby alpaca that disappeared over Halloween weekend from a Schuylkill County farm fell victim to a bear, said Mountain Valley Alpaca Farm owner Ralph Deangelo.

And since the initial attack, the bear has killed a second alpaca, this one a 6-year-old adult gelding named Blackjack, Deangelo said.

But the bear paid a price. Deangelo said he encountered the bear while feeding his alpacas -- which are domesticated South American cousins of the llama -- one night last week and shot it in the head with a .38-caliber pistol, sending it fleeing into the woods near his farm outside Tamaqua.


I think if you get some of the animals, they will just eat them and leave you alone.

ps. dont use a .38

[Dwrice]

You don't really need the A-10, a battery of 155's firing HE or WP work just as well :} I vote for leave the bear alone!

[frankiestoys]

you only need a .22 and a buddy to stop a bear. The .22 is to slow down your buddy enough to stop the bear. :d
now thats funny lol

[D!rty H@rry]

480 Ruger



;)

[CJ]

Requisite list of jokes for every bear thread:
"Whatever it is, just be sure to file down the front sight..."
"A .22. Just shoot your buddy in the knee to slow him down and run."

Really, most encounters with blacks which I know about were solved without having to shoot the bear. The sound of a shot was sufficient to send even mama bear with cubs packing.

[AKElroy]

I would not try this with a Grizzly, but I have seen youtube video of fisherman approached by blacks, the bear STEALS the fish on the line, with the fisherman chasing it, screaming curse words & throwing rocks to get it back. Bear runs off, satisfied with the fish.

[9MMare]

As an ex-park ranger, I can tell you that on the uncommon occasions that a black bear charges, it is almost always a bluff charge. Even sows with cubs. I dont suggest that you 'take that chance' that it's a bluff, however on govt natural lands it is the duty and responsibility of the person to remove themselves from the the situation as much as possible. Those animals live there.

Shooting a sow with cubs leaves them motherless. (which should go without saying) And snakes should be given the same consideration, btw. It's amazing how many grown men are afraid of rattlers, etc.

Just like is said when cc'ing in civilization that firing is a last resort to corresponding deadly force, it should be the same in the wilds.

I worry more about moose in the lower 48 than black bears anyday.

[CrazyIrishman]

9MMare,


When it comes to snakes, particularly the ones that crawl on their belly, I don't have a problem giving them respect or the room to leave the area.

I haven't had any contact with rattlesnakes, but I have had contact with copperheads and water moccasins (aka-cottonmouth).

The problem with the cottonmouth I encountered was that after I backed away from him......quickly, he insisted on coming after ME! Needless to say I ran like hell! LOL!

Its been my experience that "most" snakes will leave as they are more afraid of us than us of them. Unfortunately, thats "most" ,NOT ALL snakes!



Now......if ya want to talk about TWO-legged snakes thats a much different story!

[9MMare]

Good to hear.

Yes, cottonmouths mouths can be exciteable. I've never seen one chase anyone, but I've seen them panic...I've moved them off roads, they 'lose traction' on the pavement, and panic. I'd prefer to deal with a rattler over them myself.

[luigi]

Hmmmm, Guess I'll have to try to devise some sort of splint that would be easy to carry and put into position.

http://www.sammedical.com/sam_splint.html sam splint

[wgp]

I once read that if you are limited to a .357, lubricate it with bacon fat. If you encounter a bear, throw the gun at him and run away while he licks it dry.

[dmazur]

There's another thread running with a link to a 1983 USFS report -

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485872

[Nematocyst]

The .22 is to slow down your buddy enough to stop the bear.That and Mainsail's A-10 are the best posts so far.

I've walked in woodlands where bear roam for 4 decades.
Never had a problem. Pay attention. Don't carry food in your tent.
If you even spill food on your clothes at dinner, leave them outside the tent.

Fear lightning (in western high country), hypothermia, broken bones
& meth cookers far more than bear outside of MT, AK or BC.
(If you go up there, then the story changes.)

What caliber for lightning?

http://dutch.phys.strath.ac.uk/CommPhys2007exam/Ross-Preston/lightning.jpg

[Shadow 7D]

why are you scared of a black bear?
I really want to see what you carry for the monster under your bed
It's called bear spray, it's made for bears, and funny enough, it even works, and the part where you learn what to do, and NOT TO DO.

Don't know bout yall, but around here, you shoot a bear, your the one getting investigated, and if it wasn't clear, and by that I mean witness by no less than your preacher, the F&G's grandmother and a biologist, your going to wait a while.

[tipoc]

OK, I apologize, I hate to feed the bears in bear threads but...

Here is a Black Bear what took two rounds from a .44 Mag here recently, one to the skull, and walked away...

http://www.pe.com/ap_news/California/NV_Big_Bear_458567C.shtml




why are you scared of a black bear?

Well it weighs 600 pounds, ripped a hole in the garage door and is breaking into my house to steal my cookies. I likes my cookies.

tipoc

[Ben86]

Is it true that you should try firing a warning shot first to try and scare it off? I have heard that once you wound the bear it will absolutely try to kill you, but if you fire a shot at the ground you might be able to just scare it off and avoid the fight. Can someone tell me if this is retarded hearsay?

[Cosmoline]

Heavy hardcast solids are the way to go for a handgun. But most black bears are not a real threat to an adult male. They'll size you up and figure you're too big for their belly. The predatory episodes usually involve children or smaller women.

I have heard that once you wound the bear it will absolutely try to kill you, but if you fire a shot at the ground you might be able to just scare it off and avoid the fight. Can someone tell me if this is retarded hearsay?

Instances of shot bear coming after people are rare and restricted to the meaner types of griz. I have heard of "warning shots" to the ground turning charges. But there are no guarantees.

[MT GUNNY]

Use what ever you like for all other Critters except bears, after you have determined that don't enter the Outdoors unless your with a Friend you can out run!

[9MMare]

When people make first-hand experience comments about black bears (or grizz's) it helps to know where you are located. It often makes a difference.

[Rugg_Ed]

A nice chey pickup with trash bags in the back parked 100 yrds away makes a fine deterrent. Bear jumps in pickup snatches trash bag and heads out happy. Makes nice pictures and camp fire story. Scatter gun not in photo.

[mustang_steve]

make a rolling cart with a 100x100 barrel-edge to barrel-edge array of breech-loading 22.mag rifles. Aim at bear, fire all of them simultaneously.

The bear should be look like a hill of ground beef from the front when done. And you can say you've used .22mag weapons to drop a bear sucessfully on the first shot.

Given, the ATF might be unamused by this....so YMMV. :)

[rondog]

I'll leave 'em alone, if they leave me alone. But if he starts beating on my Jeep, it's ON!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/smilies/blackbear.gif

[jmr40]

If your friend can handle a 44 comfortably there is nothing wrong with that choice. Around black bears I would feel well enough armed with either a good 357 mag or my 1st choice, a Glock 10mm loaded with hot loads. I backpack a lot in bear country and have all 3 choices and the Glock is the gun that gets carried most.

If I were hunting, or hiking in big bear territory then the 44 mag would get the nod.

[goon]

The bears we have in the east aren't really mythical creatures of doom. They're just bears.
I've seen over a dozen while hiking in the woods, some of them only feet away. They have always either continued on about their business or flat out ran away from me, knocking small trees aside as they fled.
I pack an SP-101 any time I go in the woods and lots of times when I go somewhere else. It's loaded with full power 158 grain JSP's for woods carry - either Federal or Magtech.
There are many other options as well - actually too many to list.

If it comes to long guns - Marlin 336 in .30-30 is an obvious choice.

[bad_aim_billy]

Fear lightning (in western high country), hypothermia, broken bones
& meth cookers far more than bear outside of MT, AK or BC

Why outside of those states? I fear lightning way more than I fear bears...

[snakeman]

30/30 45/70 44 mag 454 casull anything slow and heavy and that he shoots well will suffice. 357 would be marginal but not incapable

[Diggers]

Wait Wait!!

No one has commented on this by dairycreek???!!!!

[QUOTE][The other bear turned out to be a seriously ill animal whose behavior became unpredictable. She came for me and there was no doubt that had she reached me she would have raised pure hell with my aging body. I used a Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum and stopped her with one shot to the chest at about 7-10 yards. IMHO there is no way that I could have stopped her with anything less. I do not think that a 357 magnum will give you a chance at a one shot stop the way the 240 grain 44 mag. did.

/QUOTE]
dairycreek you should go on a forum post tour man.

You are the first poster in thousands of these I've read where the poster had actually had to shoot a bear.

I guess that says something right there.;)



Nematocyst what ever caliber one uses for lightning I think they should stay away from copper jacketed ammo. :rolleyes:

[Averageman]

Was the only Doctor for about 150 miles where I grew up. We had quite a mountain range full of black bears right out the back door in the 70's.
He got called by the Park Service to help collect the bodies of two Campers who were caught in their tent at night by a Black Bear.
Aparently they had food in the Tent and the Bear crawled in after the scent. Both Men died of shock and blood loss. The Bear was found hundreds of yards away with 4 .357 Hollow points in it, 2 flattened out on the Bears skull, Dad said they looked as if they were fired with the muzzle in the bears mouth.
I can't remember why, but he said the Bear had some wound or was in some other way incapable of hunting at the time.
Bears are much less common than they were when I was a kid. They used to actually come through town from time to time and raid garbage cans.
I would reccomend a heavier caliber for your first choice than .357. You can't choose the situation, but you can always choose the caliber you bring to it.

[Ben86]

Lightning..that doesn't have a chance against my automatic ball lightning rifle. Not a chance. If only I could see it coming.

http://swgblog.net/wp-content/themes/kukote-in-a-jar-10/images/LightningCannon.jpg

[gsreimers]

I carry a .40 S&W subcompact in the woods and my backpacking buddy carries a Glock 45. He tells me the 40 is too small if we see a bear. My response is that the 40 is for him. The bear won't chase me if he's got something to eat already.

[Cayoot]

Was the only Doctor for about 150 miles where I grew up. We had quite a mountain range full of black bears right out the back door in the 70's.
He got called by the Park Service to help collect the bodies of two Campers who were caught in their tent at night by a Black Bear.
Aparently they had food in the Tent and the Bear crawled in after the scent. Both Men died of shock and blood loss. The Bear was found hundreds of yards away with 4 .357 Hollow points in it, 2 flattened out on the Bears skull, Dad said they looked as if they were fired with the muzzle in the bears mouth.
I can't remember why, but he said the Bear had some wound or was in some other way incapable of hunting at the time.
Bears are much less common than they were when I was a kid. They used to actually come through town from time to time and raid garbage cans.
I would reccomend a heavier caliber for your first choice than .357. You can't choose the situation, but you can always choose the caliber you bring to it.
I think the issue here was the hollow points, not the caliber (.357).

I have a feeling that if good hard cast bullets were used, they would have penetrated much better.

[Bluenote]

I think the issue here was the hollow points, not the caliber (.357).

I have a feeling that if good hard cast bullets were used, they would have penetrated much better.
****************************************************


The above hit's the nail exactly on the head , I've lived in several locales in 'bear country' ,including a significant amount of time living and trapping in the far north.

As has been highlighted , the majority of the time Black bears will take off if given the chance and they have a way out , the sometime exception being if you failf to keep a CLEAN CAMP , this cannot be stressed highly enough. BUT when they don't you'll need the proper tool and proper ammunition for the job at hand ,.357 mag and .45 acp *can* be sufficient , that said you'd best be good with the specific sidearm and be cool under stress , and regardless of certain folks cavalier attitude here as regards black bears they are most assuredly NOT a creature to mess with. A small black bear ( read 125- 175 lbs) is much ,much more than a match for a HUGE man.

Within the context of BIG bears ,i.e. lower 48 grizzlies and Brownies in the far north ( which are actually a larger subspecies of Grizzly) you really need a .44 mag or above and the proper loads i.e. something like the old Keith version hardcast at 265 grains and up or a 300 grain hornady XTP stacked over 21 plus grains of ww296 ,h110 or 2400. ( these loads for .44 mag)

And *NO* handgun is an ideal weapon for one of these situations , but you have to put your long gun down sometime , to clean game you've shot , to clear your traps and reset and relure and bait , to feed stock or dogs , to split wood or bring it in , to go to the outhouse , to carry water if necessary etc.etc.

And on the running issue and the advice to run down hill , while bears are slower downhill than up * you WILL NOT outrun a bear that wants your tail* , a Brownie can outrun a fast horse for the first 100-200 yards.

STAND STILL , give the Bear an out , they'll usually take it. Panicing and automatically running may precipitate a situation where the Bear chases you , yes they are omnivorous in diet but they ARE a predator.

And should you end up in conflict with a bear , especially a Brownie , whether the inland subtype or the coastal bears ,I'll gaurandamntee you that you will never EVER be more scared in your life , should any doubt this then go to the general section and look up where I posted of an encounter I had while trapping the area south and west of Paxson Lake and above Lake Louise.

And for those scoffing at carrying a sidearm for bear defense , while you may NEVER need it , if you do then without it you're TOAST if the bear really wants you , even a 100lb juvenile black bear can kill you merely with a SLAP if it so wishes.

And if a Brownie comes along and wants that deer you're field dressing , let 'em have the damn deer , if you catch one raiding your traps , back the hell off and let them have that Marten or whatever.

Common sense goes a long way towards co-existing with bears if you're living in or spending a lot of time in areas where they are numerous.



B.

[Big Bill]

You don't have to run faster than a bear to get away, just faster than your friend.

Seriously though, a.357 mag load shou ld do ok if the loads are hot and heavy hardcast. However, I feel more comfortable with a .44 Mag.

[The Bushmaster]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before or not, but...

1. Don't be in bear areas...
2. And if you are...Don't piss them off...

Best defense I can think of at the moment...:D

[Bluenote]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before or not, but...

1. Don't be in bear areas...
2. And if you are...Don't piss them off...

Best defense I can think of at the moment...
********************



I guess a whole lot of us should pick up and move then? And you don't have to 'piss them off' , ask the guy who was recently mauled up not far from Port Lyons ( Kodiak Island) the brownie sow and her two juvenile cubs ( two year olds) decided they wanted the deer he was packing out so they took it , and chewed him up into the bargain.

[The Bushmaster]

Oh rats...Forgot the grinning face...No one has a sense of humor anymore. What happened to everyone?:D

I am well aware of what bears can do as I continually guard against them to protect my horses...And keep a heavy rifle loaded and close at hand.

Let me go up and add that grinning face...:neener:

[NMGonzo]

The 2nd amendment gives us the right to bear arms, arm bears, and everything in between.

[The Bushmaster]

NMGonzo...You need to apply a Smiley or a Grinner or Bluenote will be on your case...:D

[NMGonzo]

:) :P

[Bluenote]

Comeon Bushy , that wasn't even remotely 'on your case'. And you know it. And insofar as it goes that message came across as completely serious. If it hadn't then I doubt you'd have replied with the covering commentary as to how you 'forgot the smiley'.

But hey whatever floats your boat , or batters the bruin as it were.

[WTBguns10kOK]

Common sense is always to carry bear spray. I don't even know why I comment on this...we have grizzlies here and blacks....I wouldn't worry that much about blacks.

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

I love bear threads.

I hunt bears extensively, and I always find it interesting how misunderstood they are.
IMO, anything less than a 45 Colt (heavy loads) is pushing it, seen a bunch of them fall to 44 mags, personally, I carry A 454 Casull.

But, its not a matter if I run into run, it's when, so I like the extra bit of insurance.

If they aren't fired up, they really aren't that hard to kill, but then if they aren't fire up, you don't need a defense weapon. If they are, you better be breaking them down, something that will destroy big bones.

But, seriously, bear spray works really well and I wouldn't feel at all in danger carrying it if I wasn't hunting.

[Ben86]

Would you say that using bear spray may be more effective than trying to take it out before it reaches you using a handgun?

[rondog]

This oughta make a good bear gun! Might be a tad heavy, but it should do the job.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/anm2stingerqi0.jpg

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

"Would you say that using bear spray may be more effective than trying to take it out before it reaches you using a handgun?"


For the average person, absolutely.
Bears have a mystic about them and are seriously either over or under estimated by people.
1. They aren't blood thirsty creature out to eat every human they encounter.
2. 99% will flee long before you ever even get to know they were there.
3. 99% of the remaining 1% will flee upon seeing you and you seeing them.

Of the remaining few that you're going to have a problem with
1. They move a lot faster than most people realize, and this includes running down hill, they move like smoke.
2. They unnerve most people when you are close to them, makes shooting one even more difficult. I have seen people who couldn't muster the strength to climb down from a stand after being close to them.
3. Sprays make hitting them pretty easy as they "spray" for a lot longer, allow for inaccuracy because you can spray and pray so to speak. And bears have incredibly sensitive olfactory systems, a nose full of pepper has proven very effective at changing their intentions.

[Ben86]

I appreciate the advice eaglecreekbrewer. Any brand recommendations for spray?

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

All of them I have used have been good, and yes we have tested them on a few occasions. Just get the big bottles and remember they have an expiration date. I usually just get whats on sale if possible.

We actually carry them while hunting, as coming out of a bear bait after dark will raise the hairs on your neck when you know a big boar is lurking, and they are much easier to administer after dark than a bullet.

[Pappy109]

You really don't have to shoot the bear. You just need to be able to out run your friends. To the bear you all taste like chicken! :eek:

[Pappy109]

Now I will give you the best bear repellent and bad guy non lethal repellent. Wasp and Hornet spray. It will shoot 20 feet and will render the attacker blind and with severely irritated mucus membranes even worse than pepper spray.....:rolleyes:

[hogshead]

Pappy you know someone is going to cry about you recomending bee spray for bears. So make sure you rinse his eyes out after you spray him.

[Pappy109]

That's Wasp and Hornet Spray and don't knock it till you try it. We deal with a bear problem here every year and it works great. They also don't like being sprayed with a fire extinguisher either.

[Mainsail]

They also don't like being sprayed with a fire extinguisher either.

They do if you've set them on fire first.

[dmazur]

Need a new keyboard...

[SharpsDressedMan]

I can just see a tree hugger/bear lover with a fire extinguisher strapped to his back when walkabout in the woods...............

[lloveless]

flick a Bic in front of that wasp/hornet spray. Makes a mini flame thrower!
ll

[orrwdd]

Why outside of those states? I fear lightning way more than I fear bears...
In the west now it is more common to Fear the Marijuana Growers than either the meth cookers or the bears.

They are common now in many remote area's and they carry AK style rifles. So be armed with something other than Bear Spray be cause they can reach out an touch someone.

Bill

[Rock Lobster]

Dont use ANY handgun on large bear and expect to walk away from it, I Have seen tests done on grizzly bear skulls with handguns and rifles of various calibres none of the handgun bullets penetrated the skull, and most of the rifles also failed the only gun found to acheive successful skull penetration every time was a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. These also achieved maximum body penetation in both grizzly and polar bears usually the slug would be found close to the skin on the other side of the bear.

[sanerkeki]

Been doing a lot of bear hunting and reaserch. First off it is very hard to get attacked by a bear, you have more chance of winning the lottery. Second if a bear does descide to attack you and charges at you you are not going to stop it very easy, not with a pistol. What works best is a simple flair, no metter how mad they are the flare will scare them and they will reatreat.

[S&W-Keeper]

12 gauge 00, or 000 buckshot.A good pair of running shoes will also help.

[telomerase]

I Have seen tests done on grizzly bear skulls with handguns and rifles of various calibres none of the handgun bullets penetrated the skull, and most of the rifles also failed

Thus the prevalence of the patented Bearskull armor inserts in modern armies.

Sprays make hitting them pretty easy as they "spray" for a lot longer, allow for inaccuracy because you can spray and pray so to speak. And bears have incredibly sensitive olfactory systems, a nose full of pepper has proven very effective at changing their intentions.

And 50% of the time a spray will blow back in your face, thus protecting you from all but the most hardened Mexican Chili Bears.

In NH the black bears run like heck if they see any person. If I lived on Kodiak Island I'd have to change my smarmy tune, of course :D

[Bluenote]

Dont use ANY handgun on large bear and expect to walk away from it, I Have seen tests done on grizzly bear skulls with handguns and rifles of various calibres none of the handgun bullets penetrated the skull, and most of the rifles also failed the only gun found to acheive successful skull penetration every time was a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. These also achieved maximum body penetation in both grizzly and polar bears usually the slug would be found close to the skin on the other side of the bear.
*************************


Uh huh. Sorry but you're incorrect , you can argue all you want but I've *seen* it first hand , and in point of fact I've already posted a personal encounter with a sow brownie while running trapline in the area way north of Lake Louise and west of Paxson Lake , in that case a 300 hornady xtp (.44 mag) penetrated the skull quite nicely.

And slugs are not optimum for bear defense , don't bother argueing that one either unless you want to run up there and tell all the guides and folks living 'out' what a big mistake they're making carrying a .338 ,.375 ,.416 etc.

You've 'seen a test'. ROTFLMAO , some of us have lived incountry and co-existed with the big bears off and on for decades.

Furthermore here's a REALITY for you , you're going to have to put that long gun down at some point ,kind of hard to clear and reset a Conibear 330 while keeping a hand on that slug gun you're so enamored of ,likewise splitting wood and a hundred other everyday tasks , tell me how you're going to handle that longgun in outhouse? What
' You're gonna wipe your ass with the stock?


B.

[jackstinson]

Throw your picnic basket one direction and run the other direction.

[Bluenote]

What works best is a simple flair, no metter how mad they are the flare will scare them and they will reatreat.
**********************


You 'netxperts' are going to get someone killed or mauled some day with bull**** advice like the above. And once again don't even bother argueing with me about it ,'cause tell you what I'll just offer to meet you in Anchorage , fly you out to Naknek and we'll hoof it into the Katmai and you can try it , we'll even back you up and keep you from getting mauled/killed , and then put out the damn fire when you drop that flare and run screaming in terror.


B.

[Bluenote]

In the west now it is more common to Fear the Marijuana Growers than either the meth cookers or the bears.

***************


THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the absolute damn truth , there are vast areas of Northern California backcountry that you go into at certain times of the year at your own peril , and you go heavily armed yourself and stay the hell out of these idiots way.

If you run across one of their patches ,camps or cook sites do the common sense thing and make tracks.

[Mello]

Good reason to carry a POWERFUL handgun
Got this as an e-mail.

This guy lives just outside of Soldotna, AK.

Friends,

Have I got a story for you guys!
King season is over, and since I had a day off before silvers start, I
Thought I would go for a walk! This occurred at 11:16 am this morning
(Sunday), just 2/10 of a mile from my house, ON OUR ROAD while walking
My dogs (trying to get in shape for hunting season, ironically!) for the
Record, this is in a residential area-not back in the woods, no
Bow hunting, no stealth occurring...

I heard a twig snap, and looked back...full on charge-a huge brownie,
Ears back, head low and motorin' full speed! Came with zero warning; no
Woof, no popping of the teeth, no standing up, nothing like what you
Think or see on TV! It charged from less than 20 yards and was on me in
About one-second! Totally surreal-I just started shooting in the general
Direction, and praise God that my second shot (or was it my third?)
Rolled him at 5 feet and he skidded to a stop 10 feet BEYOND where I was
Shooting from-I actually sidestepped him and fell over backwards on the
Last shot, and his momentum carried him to a stop past where I fired my
First shot!

It was a prehistoric old boar-no teeth, no fat-weighed between 900-1000
Lbs and took five men to DRAG it onto a tilt-bed trailer! Big bear-its
Paw measured out at about a 9 1/2 footer!

Never-ever-thought "it" would happen to me! It's always some other smuck, Right?
Well, no bull- I am still high on adrenaline, with my gut in a Knot.
Feels like I did 10000 crunches without stopping! Almost puked for
An hour after, had the burps and couldn't even stand up as the troopers
Conducted their investigation! Totally wiped me out-cant even put that
Feeling into words, by far the most emotion I have ever felt at once!

No doubt that God was with me, as I brought my Ruger .454 Casull (and
Some "hot" 350 grain solids) just for the heck of it, and managed to
Draw and snap shoot (pointed, never even aimed!) from the hip! Total
Luck shot!

All I can say is Praise God for my safety and for choosing to leave the
Wife and kids at home on this walk! Got a charter tomorrow, so gonna TRY
To get some sleep now!

Talk to ya soon, -Greg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/bear1copy.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/bear4copy.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/bear3copy.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/bear2copy.jpg

This story seems believable to me. http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stor...78669517.shtml
It was reported Aug. 7, 2009 in the Peninsula Clarion.

It shows that a person can choose to carry a significantly powerful handgun and use it at a moments notice and save ones life from an unprovoked attack.

He admits that he was lucky. But he choose to carry a handgun; that was also "enough gun" (.454 Casull). He intelligently choose an appropriate cartridge ("hot" 350 grain solid) for the possibility that he just might need it. Was he paranoid?

It goes to show that in a defensive action you are playing catch-up. You are out of time. You need to do the right thing "RIGHT NOW"!

[Mainsail]

Good reason to carry a POWERFUL handgun Got this as an e-mail.

Say what?!?! Did you read the question that was asked?

A good buddy of mine who has property just outside of Cumberland, Md is starting to see alot more bear sign than usual, so he called earlier asking which would be a good caliber for black bear.
There's nothing like that in Maryland.

[ArchAngelCD]

I want to play too, how about this?

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/files/dominion-img/afghanistan-big-guns.preview.jpg

OR, maybe even this of you don't want to carry the first gun...

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/LAND_Bofors_Archer_Artillery_lg.jpg

[tipoc]

More about that incident here...

http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml

http://jasperwildlife.com/Fatal-Bear-Attacks-in-North-America-Jasper-Wildlife.html

tipoc

[smoketheresfire]

Throw your picnic basket one direction and run the other direction.
Classic.:D

[BCRider]

Aw geez, com'on folks. EVERYONE knows that it's a "picinic" basket and not a picnic basket.

All those years of watching Yogi and Bubba and you didn't pick up on the right vernacular?...... GEEZ!

Years ago some friends and I were hiking in some fairly local woods (1/2 hour from the edge of town and up a mountain). One of my buddy's got antsy at our "slow" progress and jogged up the trail. I came around the next bend to see him standing stock still in the trail and a black bear's butt dissappearing stage left at a hurried pace. Seems that he jogged around the bend and came up face to face at 10 feet with the bear. They both stopped and got all wide eyed at the same time (he admitted to an "I'm going to die today" moment) and after what he said was perhaps 3 or 4 seconds where neither moved a muscle the bear decided to politely leave in a panic.

Black bears around our area are just a bit bigger than an oversized St Bernard.

[22-rimfire]

Tell your friend to keep all food in-accessible to the bears outdoors. This would include bird feeders and garbage. If the bears come around the house, they're probably looking for food. Tell him not to get too excited and basically just yell and run the bears off. A broom might come in handy. They will continue to come as long as they think there is food. This includes picnic baskets. :)

A gun, sure, most any shotgun will do loaded with slugs. Handgun, sure, 357 mag or larger. Rifle, sure, something along the lines of a 30-30 or more powerful should be sufficient. He won't need the gun, but it will probably make him feel better.

Call the game warden if they become a problem. Otherwise, enjoy the sights and take some photos.

[MattTheHat]

> pics of that big honking bear

HOLY COW!!!!!

As others have said, I'd prefer a long gun (my .454 Casull lever action rifle), but wouldn't be caught dead in big bear country without a side arm too. For me, that would be my Colt Delta Elite 10mm, loaded with the hottest ammo I could find. A .454 Casull revolver would seem to be a natural, considering my lever gun of choice, but I'm sure I can get off close to twice as many shots with better placement with my Delta than I ever could with the revolver. Ever see the movie "Romancing the Stone"? With a revolver I'm afraid I'd pull a Danny Devito and run whilst shooting backwards over my shoulder.

With the Delta, I would hope I could stand my ground just long enough to get off 8 fairly well placed shots before I turned and started running. :)

-Matt

[xXxplosive]

Can't imagine what it felt like knowing you were split seconds away from being lunch for the largest carnivore on earth......glad you didn't bring the mouse gun.

[s2harry]

Ha Ha ha I like the one where the guy says If you have to run, run downhill bears run slower downhill than up hill haha. I aint no expert but Ive seen lots of video of bears rolling as they run downhill... You dont have a chance. UDAP Bear spray is your only hope at close range.........for me I got a Vaquero in 44 mag on my belt w/ 300 gr XTP or Keith style hard cast. Rifle is a Win 94 in 44 mag. Will go clean through a bear I hear. Ill take that with a grain of salt.

[roscoe]

I love these bear threads as well, but the important factor that is being ignored is that this situation is in Maryland, where handguns can not be carried. Rifles are legal, however, so I recommend a compact (16" barrel") levergun in .357, .44, or .45. These rifles can be pretty compact, especially the 1892 Puma, but I believe Marlin also periodically makes a compact .44. I have an old Winchester Trapper in .45 that I love for this role.

Ammo choice is critical. 180-200 grain solids (DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore) in .357, and 300+ grain solids in .44/.45 wold be appropriate.

[monwa]

black bear are easily killed by all kind of ammo. pistol, rifle or buckshot.

[mljdeckard]

Come again monwa? Killed a lot of bears with a lot of smaller guns, have you?

The thing about ALL bears is, they have a very slow heart rate. Anything other than a central nervous system hit leaves them with a good two minutes of oxygen to decide how they are going to ruin your day.

When I'm shooting something that fights back, I want overwhelming force. "Good enough" is not a viable option.

[goon]

Buckshot for a bear?
Really?
I'm not questioning that in smartass way. It's just that I've never considered buck up to that task.
I mean the bears here usually don't get that big, but some do get "big" by our standards. My dad surprised one taking his little dog out to pee one night a couple years ago - came up about face to face with it behind his old red oak and swears it was near 700 pounds. Even though he was likely startled and overestimated in the light of his maglite, it still probably was a solid 450-500. Scared maybe, but the man don't lie.
Point is, even my much beloved .357 loaded with solid would be a tad light for a black bear that big. I'd think a load of buck would be suicidal.
Now a 12 or 20 gauge slug or a 170 grain RNSP from a 30-30... that ought to do.

Anyone actually killed enough bears with buckshot that they wouldn't consider it dumb luck?

[Mainsail]

I mean the bears here usually don't get that big, but some do get "big" by our standards. My dad surprised one taking his little dog out to pee one night a couple years ago...

Wait, the bear was taking his little dog out to pee?

:p

[Nematocyst]

I know this thread is mainly about black bears and griz, but just in case anyone needs advice about polar bear defense, I've got you covered.

To protect yourself from PB's, just cut a hole in the ice and put peas around the hole.
The peas can be any kind: sugar peas, snow peas, black eyes, even wasabi.

Then, sit near the hole.

<read this part with a slight southern accent>
When the bear comes up to take a pea,
just kick him in the ice hole.

:D

[Jonah71]

In the west now it is more common to Fear the Marijuana Growers than either the meth cookers or the bears.

They are common now in many remote area's and they carry AK style rifles. So be armed with something other than Bear Spray be cause they can reach out an touch someone.

Bill
According to statistics, I live in one of the worst areas for meth production in the country. But I seldom see evidence of it, except for the rarely seen toothless tweeker smelling of chemicals. I think what little food they do eat is delivered and they seldom come to town. Of course we have a huge number of CCW with a lot of open carry people in town. The meth people stay pretty much to themselves and as far as arrests for possession/manufacture of meth, you don't see much of that until just prior to elections. Same with the pot growers. Every time a local law enforcement officer is up for re election you will see pictures in the town paper with bonfires of ditchweed that grows wild all over this area along with headlines like "Huge Marijuana Bust" by local law enforcement after months of investigations etc. I understand and agree that meth is a big problem and should be dealt with accordingly with serious jail time. But I sometimes have my doubts as to the so called official statistics, especially for this area. I would think if they were accurate we would have a much larger crime problem and this wouldn't be such a sleepy little wonderfully boring (though fully armed) community.

[Jonah71]

And we don't have many bears either. I tend to avoid them as much as possible as well.

[mljdeckard]

The pot farmer problem has exploded here in the last couple of years (or at least our cops' awareness of it) and I am always armed with a rifle while I am out and about in the desert or hills.

[R.Ph. 380]

run fast

[KevininPa]

"All those years of watching Yogi and Bubba and you didn't pick up on the right vernacular?...... GEEZ!"

All those years of watching said cartoon and you forgot the name is Boo Boo?...DOUBLE GEEZ!! :D Sorry. Couldn't resist.:rolleyes: