Best bullet for .308 with 1:12 twist


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Blowingsky
November 12, 2009, 04:56 PM
I have a bolt gun with a 26" 1:12 twist barrel. This is the Remington 700 Police. The things I don't know that I'm pretty sure I should know are:

1. Does this twist relegate me to a certain selection of bullet types.
2. How do I find out the throat / chamber characteristics for optimum bullet seating?
3. Does #2 really matter?

Any advice? I figure that power will just be taken off a table and developed from there.

Thanks.

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rcmodel
November 12, 2009, 05:07 PM
1/12 is the standard twist used in .308's, including the first one, the M14 service rifle.
30-06 is normally 1/10.

If there is a limit, it would be with 220 grain bullets as used in the 30-06, but not in the .308.

You find the lands with a bullet comparator, or by smoking a long seated bullet with a candle flame and keep seating it deeper until the rifling doesn't rub off the candle soot.

It may help accuracy, or not.
Factory loaded match ammo doesn't take it into consideration, and it shoots mightly small groups in most any accurate rifle.

rc

WNTFW
November 12, 2009, 05:15 PM
BlowingSky,
To answer your question with a question : What Caliber? (I assume .308)
Edit: I see it was in the title!!

1. Does this twist relegate me to a certain selection of bullet types.
Should not be critical on a .308, more of a problem on .223

2. How do I find out the throat / chamber characteristics for optimum bullet seating?
You have to see how a case fits & where a bullet contacts the lands. Different ways to do this. On a stock 700 the lands will probably be pretty far out there. On mine it was too far to get the bullet seated in the case enough, so I put a 1x bullet diameter in the case. I have found this to work fairly well when the bullets have to go too far out to hit the lands.

3. Does #2 really matter?
I have been told certain bullets are more tolerant of jump to lands. Not sure if it true but the guy who told me is a "Bonafide Rifleman" and I trust his word.

DannySeesUSMC
November 12, 2009, 05:32 PM
There are people shooting 208-210 grain match bullets which are looooong in 12" twist .308 barrels and getting accuracy to 1,000 yards and beyond. You will probably be good with any weight bullet you want to use if your rifle shoots that style of bullet well at lower weights also.

Even though a formula for optimal barrel twist might suggest a faster twist such as 11" or 10"....it's been suggested that the larger the diameter of bullet the less finicky. Trying to shoot 75 grain bullets in a .223 with 12" twist or 115 grain bullets in .243 with 9.5" twist would be way worse for example.

JDGray
November 13, 2009, 06:10 AM
This will help on question #1:)
http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Rat Robb
November 13, 2009, 10:31 AM
I have the same gun you speak of and mine loves 165gr. I usually shoot hornady but sometimes I shoot handloaded stuff my friend makes for me.

-Robb

USSR
November 13, 2009, 10:40 AM
1. Does this twist relegate me to a certain selection of bullet types.


Nope. While best accuracy will probably be found with the 168 - 178gr match bullets, anything from 110gr up to 220gr should stabilize.

2. How do I find out the throat / chamber characteristics for optimum bullet seating?

Use of the Stoney Point/Hornady OAL Gauge and a bullet comparator will give you the point at which a particular bullet contacts the leade.

3. Does #2 really matter?

No. You have a Remington. The leade is way out there - far beyond what a cartridge loaded to fit your magazine will reach.

Don

ClayinAR
November 13, 2009, 11:11 AM
The 700 PSS I had shot very good with bullets seated about .015" from the rifling.
Problem was, they were way too long to go in the magazine. Seat them back to go in the magazine and accuracy was not even on a par with my sporters.
My sporters will all shoot under an inch, the PSS wouldn't.
The 700 PSS has way too much freebore.
I dumped it; I will get something built right to begin with.
CC

dagger dog
November 13, 2009, 05:47 PM
An opion,if in doubt about a proper spin rate and C.O.L. go with over spin and the loading manual C.O.L. for the bullet loaded. The loading manual C.O.L. is rarely the minium bullet seating depth, even if using the rule of thumb of one bullet diameter,
(.308") for minimum bullet seating . Exceptions ( Weatherby) excluded.

There are two examples of .308" bullets that will most likley shoot exceptionally well in your Remington PSS one is the Sierra 155gr Palma and the other is the 168 gr Sierra Match King (SMK) .

The lighter of the two is designed for a minimum twist of 1 in 13'"for use in a 24" barrel for ranges in the 200 -300 yd ranges. The big brothers 13 extra grains will go farther out 600 yds. and beyond. If you decide to use your PSS for four legged game, the 165 PSP offered by almost every major bullet manufactuer will fill the freezer.

One thing you can be sure of is the .308 Winchester, AKA 7.62 NATO, is one of the most inherently accurate cartridges ever conceived.

Making small 0.308" bug holes in paper targets ,< 0.25" requires the shooter to bow to the equations demanded by the barrel,powder and bullet makers, for all others 2-4"'s will do!

The only way to know for sure is to shoot each and every load description for the .308 , you can find!

joed
November 14, 2009, 09:58 PM
I have a Winchester 70 Stealth in .308 that has the 1:12" twist. I think the upper limit is the 168 gr bullet. Mine shoots this one quite well. Haven't tried the 175 gr yet but I think this one will keyhole at long distance.

To be honest the 168 gr does everything I need and I have no reason to go heavier.

USSR
November 14, 2009, 10:46 PM
I think the upper limit is the 168 gr bullet. Mine shoots this one quite well. Haven't tried the 175 gr yet but I think this one will keyhole at long distance.

To be honest the 168 gr does everything I need and I have no reason to go heavier.

I guarantee the 175gr Sierra MatchKing will not keyhole at long distance (1,000 yards), as long as you drive it at a suitable speed. The 168gr SMK, on the other hand, will cause you all kinds of grief when fired at 1,000 yards. It's a fine short and mid-range bullet (it was designed for 300M competition), but a LR bullet it is not.

Don

Zak Smith
November 15, 2009, 02:22 AM
155 Lapuas shoot bugholes at 100 and keep chugging along to 1200+ yards from my 1:12

Redneck with a 40
November 15, 2009, 10:58 AM
I shoot 168 gr Nosler HPBT's at 300 yards, Remington 700 sps tac with a 1:12 twist, these bullest shoot great in my rifle.

joed
November 15, 2009, 03:42 PM
I guarantee the 175gr Sierra MatchKing will not keyhole at long distance (1,000 yards), as long as you drive it at a suitable speed.
The problem is I don't think the .308 can drive the 175 gr bullet fast enough. It's close, very close.

Some have had success with the 175 others haven't.

Zak Smith
November 15, 2009, 04:11 PM
[The problem is I don't think the .308 can drive the 175 gr bullet fast enough. It's close, very close.
It's not really a problem at all. The 175 SMK has been the standard bearer for 1000-yard shooting with .308 for years. This is not to say it's the best choice for 1000-yard .308 shooting, but it is a bullet that will get the job done at that distance. (See the 155 Lapuas or the new fullbore bullets at 2900+ fps for a better load.)

@ sea level

_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 200 400 600 800 1000 | YARDS
155 Scenar 0.508 2925 > 2925 2565 2234 1929 1652 1412 | velocity (fps)
175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 2700 2350 2028 1734 1470 1254 | velocity (fps)
175 SMK 0.51* 2650 > 2650 2304 1986 1695 1437 1229 | velocity (fps)
168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > 2800 2411 2048 1705 1405 1172 | velocity (fps)
168 SMK 0.46* 2700 > 2700 2317 1958 1626 1337 1128 | velocity (fps)

155 Scenar 0.508 2925 > 0.00 2.45 10.47 25.24 48.32 81.47 | wind (inches)
175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 0.00 2.82 12.09 29.28 56.42 95.31 | wind (inches)
175 SMK 0.51* 2650 > 0.00 2.90 12.42 30.12 58.04 97.90 | wind (inches)
168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > 0.00 2.91 12.71 31.51 62.10 107.06 | wind (inches)
168 SMK 0.46* 2700 > 0.00 3.10 13.53 33.64 66.28 113.59 | wind (inches)

155 Scenar 0.508 2925 > -0.00 0.40 1.76 3.51 5.70 8.44 | drop (mil)
175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > -0.00 0.52 2.16 4.29 6.98 10.40 | drop (mil)
175 SMK 0.51* 2650 > -0.00 0.55 2.26 4.48 7.29 10.86 | drop (mil)
168 SMK 0.46* 2800 > -0.00 0.47 2.03 4.11 6.83 10.44 | drop (mil)
168 SMK 0.46* 2700 > -0.00 0.53 2.23 4.50 7.49 11.46 | drop (mil)


I think the upper limit is the 168 gr bullet.
I've shot 210gr VLD's out of a 25" 1:12 and the stabilized fine. Also, FWIW, Berger recommends at least 1:13 for their 175VLD, which is longer than the 175 SMK.

For making it to long distance, the primary factor is BC. That's why the 168gr SMK is a poor choice for 1000 yard shooting. The 175 starts with less velocity but its higher BC keeps it moving. The 155 Lapua goes the other way: its BC isn't enough lower to bleed off its velocity advantage (actually its BC is about the starting BC of the 175).

-z

USSR
November 15, 2009, 08:57 PM
The problem is I don't think the .308 can drive the 175 gr bullet fast enough. It's close, very close.

As Zak said, no problem driving a 175SMK fast enough. I shoot 190SMK's from time to time, and with my 26" barrel, I can drive them at 2700fps. I also have seen the 210gr Berger bullet used at 1,000 yards with a .308.

Don

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