[multigauge]

I have been reading this forum for years but have never seen a thread on this item. Where could you find a complete set of dram equivalent tables or the formulae that were used? I'm talking about 8 gauge tables, 14 gauge, etc. A source that I have states that prior to the First World War there were 15,000 different loads available. In 1921 the Federal Division of Simplified Practice began standardizing loads. Obviously some of the good babies had to have been thrown out with the bath water, but I have not found any source for this information. Any ideas?

[desidog]

DRAM EQUIVALENT
The accepted method of correlating relative velocities of shotshells loaded with smokeless propellant to shotshells loaded with black powder. The reference black powder load chosen was a 3 dram charge of black powder, with 1 1/8 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1200 fps. Therefore, a 3 dram equivalent load using smokeless powder would be with 1 1/8 oz. of shot having a velocity of 1200 fps. or 1 1/4 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1165 fps. A 3 1/4 dram equivalent load might have 1 1/8 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1255 fps. Abbreviated Dram Equiv.

from http://www.saami.org/glossary/display.cfm?letter=D

Also, I'd try the blackpowder board...

[desidog]

Still looking...but i don't see anything that would make this Gauge-specific. However, it is not a 1:1 correlation between dram eq. and velocity.....

...sooo, good question!

[ArmedBear]

WRT the babies and the bathwater, you can handload shotshells with a wide variety of powder types, powder charges, shot charges, wads, etc. So nothing was really thrown out.:)

10 Gauge was the legal limit imposed when punt guns and market hunting of waterfowl were banned. New York restaurants nearly killed off Eastern waterfowl, before the 20th Century.

16 Gauge exists. I have one, and occasionally hunt with it or even shoot clay targets with it for fun. Mine dates from 1926, but you can still buy a 16 Gauge from a few vendors, some of them a bit obscure. Now and again, Browning or Remington does a run, too.

Shotshell handloaders play with loads, too, just like rifle loaders. I haven't done it in a while, but I've worked up a few that I like. I might start loading again.

[multigauge]

I still run across references to loads in 8 gauge and others measured in dram equivalent. It would be nice to convert those to velocity. In addition, some of the obsolete gauges might have been more efficient, such as the 28 gauge, which produces higher velocities for the same amount of black powder.

[multigauge]

Here is an example from the tables that I do have. a 2 1/2 dram, 7/8 oz. load produces the following velocities:

12 gauge: 1160
16 gauge: 1200
20 gauge: 1210
28 gauge: 1315

It thus appears that the smallest bore that you can fit a given load in produces the highest velocity. But the 20 and 28 gauge tables seem a little out of whack. For that reason it would be good to go back to all the tables to see whether there is some physical reason for these anomolies, or the fact that they just couldn't measure velocities that accurately back then.

[Jim Watson]

A source that I have states that prior to the First World War there were 15,000 different loads available.

1. There were then more competing brands selling equivalent products. Remington, Winchester, and Federal are tame, how about some Robin Hood shells?

2. There were then more gauges, 8 ga is no longer legal, and you don't see the 14, 28, 32 or 9mm any more.

3. A major multiplier was the availability of shells specified by the brand and grade of smokeless powder used, even though the shotload and D.E. were the same. And again, more brands of that than remain in business now.

[oneounceload]

2. There were then more gauges, 8 ga is no longer legal, and you don't see the 14, 28, 32 or 9mm any more.

28 is VERY popular. Even if you meant 24, it and the 32, are still around, ammunition is currently available, and I have seen a few 9mm ones (mostly of the garden gun variety)

[Jim Watson]

Oops, I did mean 24; and yes they are still "around" but not in any quantity, not such as to generate a wide variety of loads contributing to the big catalogs of a bygone day.

[ArmedBear]

WRT 32, .410 is sometimes erroneously called "36" but it's really "67".:)

[ArmedBear]

yes they are still "around" but not in any quantity, not such as to generate a wide variety of loads contributing to the big catalogs of a bygone day.


True. But I have a 16 Gauge, 12 Gauges, and 20 Gauges. They all work the same. I really can't tell the difference between a 1 oz. pheasant load in the 16 and a 20, and neither can the pheasants.

The 16 Gauge offered a lot more before the advent of 12 Gauge guns with good weight and balance -- especially 2-barrel guns. A 16 Gauge was often a far superior gun in the hands, compared with a 12 Gauge. Nowadays, it's easy to find a 12 Gauge that isn't a pig (even though some people do continue to buy a few of the pigs because that's what they grew up with). Once upon a time, 2 barrels in 12 usually meant the gun was a heavy slug, unless it was expensive and British.:)

There are good reasons that the marketplace has settled out to 12, 20, 28, .410 and a little bit of 10 and 16.

That doesn't mean that the 24 doesn't work. It just doesn't cover any ground that 20 and 28 don't.

[multigauge]

I appreciate all the comments, but apparently no one has access to the original source material for our dram equavalent tables. Are they incorrect or is there some physical reason why 28 gauges are more effective than they should be? Is .550 the ideal bore diameter for a shotgun so that the powder does not escape around the wad but it is not so small that there is too much friction in the bore? If we could look at all the original tables a logical answer might be forthcoming. Or, perhaps the tables, which are still the basis for how we describe velocities, are simply incorrect.