Holy crap- AUGS for a grand!


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Avenger29
November 13, 2009, 12:51 AM
CDNN's running a special on Microtech AUGs for $1K! Just got an email from them...

Now, only if I had $1K...No, I don't think these are the models that accept AR mags, but for $400 less, you can buy some Microtech mags...

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M-Hawk
November 13, 2009, 01:29 AM
Did you get a link because I cannot find it. Or do I email them?

Girodin
November 13, 2009, 01:47 AM
Is that with or without the factory optic? Without I imagine.

It is a good deal but, but I have more than ten AR mags and Microtech mags run $35-40 so if I bought ten of those I would be at roughly the same price but without the commonality of mags. I already bought a STG556 and I like it but if I were going to buy today I would want the version that takes AR mags. I am not surprised the other version is being let go at cut rate prices.

nwilliams
November 13, 2009, 05:25 PM
ooops double tap

nwilliams
November 13, 2009, 05:32 PM
My local shop is selling a couple of the OD rail version MSAR's for $1225 and one black with the 1.5x CQB Optical Sight for $1350, all new!

So I put money down on the black one with the 1.5x CQB Optical Sight.

May not be $1k but still a very good deal IMO and I'd rather shop locally anyway then even if I end up spending a little more.

iamkris
November 13, 2009, 10:35 PM
I've got a MSAR E4 (takes AR15 mags).

I had a real love/hate relationship with bullpups...but I bought one to see what they were like. Here's my podcast on my saga of the search for a bullpup and what I like/don't like about them.

http://gunreviewpodcast.com/category/long-gun/rifles/


Frankly, the best place I've found to learn about them (and other bullpups) is over on the AR15.com forum, Bullpups section

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=43


MSAR has about 10,000 rifles under their belt. Their early ones had some teething issues...not uncommon for any new product. They seem to have the bugs worked out and have built and excellent reputation for quality, customer service and new product introductions. Given that the company is the firearms division of Microtech blades, they aren't "fly by night" and have some longevity.

Positives
+ Compact
+ Handy
+ Less muzzle rise (because of the geometry -- smaller cantilever)
+ Longer barrel for same overall length

Negative
+ Triggers not as good (long linkage)
+ Slow mag changes
+ Harder to make ambidexterous (except with the forward / bottom ejectors like the FN2000 or P90)

In general, these rifles do have some advantages, especially for CQB. They will not, however, make me give up conventional configurations.

http://i33.tinypic.com/mtmdeu.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/2zfk9ea.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/11jnl2t.jpg

atlanticfire
November 14, 2009, 06:43 PM
I think it’s a niche market. They are fun to shoot, just a sloppy trigger.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 14, 2009, 07:29 PM
Waiting for the MSAR MCS-9 and MCS-10.

GRIZ22
November 14, 2009, 07:36 PM
I'd spend the money on an AR. I used an AUG for over 10 years and I'll take an AR any day.

atlanticfire
November 14, 2009, 08:40 PM
I'd spend the money on an AR
Couldn’t agree more! Could get a NICE are for that price range too!

Girodin
November 14, 2009, 08:46 PM
I'd spend the money on an AR. I used an AUG for over 10 years and I'll take an AR any day.

Is there some reason that one cannot own both?

iamkris
November 14, 2009, 10:10 PM
Is there some reason that one cannot own both?

Not for me!!

http://i39.tinypic.com/rs93k7.jpg

AR-15 based rifles

J&T 24” varmint upper on DPMS lower, 5.56x45mm
CMT upper, 18” WOA barrel on AeroPrecision lower, 6.8x43mm SPC
J&T M4-gery upper on DPMS lower, 5.56x45mm
WOA DCM upper on Rock River lower, 5.56x45mm
Olympic Arms upper on DPMS lower, 9x19mm

http://i30.tinypic.com/245c6t2.jpg

New foreign girlfriends

Izhmash Saiga-12, 12 ga
CAI Golani, 5.56x45 mm (Galil clone)
MSAR StG556-E4, 5.56x45 mm (Steyr AUG-A3 clone)

http://i44.tinypic.com/d6ykz.jpg

Cold War era battle rifles

CETME, 7.62x51mm
PTR91, 7.62x51mm
DSA StG58A, 7.62x51mm
DSA SA58, 7.62x51mm
Egyptian FN49, 7.92x57mm
Springfield Armory M1A Loaded, 7.62x51mm
WASR-10 AKM, , 7.62x39mm
Yugoslavian SKS M59/66, 7.62x39mm

Gelgoog
November 14, 2009, 11:42 PM
iamkris I see you are also a sufferer of Too-many-rifles-itis :D

nwilliams
November 15, 2009, 03:38 AM
I'd spend the money on an AR. I used an AUG for over 10 years and I'll take an AR any day.

So why choose an AR over an MSAR when you can have one of each?

I have an AR and I love it but that doesn't mean that I no longer would want an Aug style firearm as well for the collection.

Waiting for the MSAR MCS-9 and MCS-10.
I also plan on getting the MSAR MCS when they hit the market. I'm kinda hoping they make one chambered in .357 Sig.

GRIZ22
November 15, 2009, 01:55 PM
Is there some reason that one cannot own both?

I never said you can't own both but to my experience an AUG is not worth all the hype people give it.

taliv
November 15, 2009, 02:37 PM
I have an AR and I love it but that doesn't mean that I no longer would want an Aug style firearm as well for the collection.

if you're collecting, then yes, obviously. if you're shooting, two is one, one is none. i'll take 2 ARs so i have a backup. if i could afford 3, i'd still take 3 ARs. personally, being in double-digits on the AR front, i'm actually thinking about buying one of the augs.... but I need just one more AR first :)

nwilliams
November 15, 2009, 06:03 PM
I think Augs and Aug clones appeal to a certain type of individual, they are like Uzi's and Tompsons, I think people are more attracted to the idea of having one as opposed to how practical it is.

I certainly won't dispute that the AR is hard to beat and the Aug design is far from perfect. However having owned an MSAR before I have to say they are great guns and very fun to shoot with very good accuracy. The only reason I sold my previous MSAR was that I realized soon after I bought it that I had paid too much for it and sold it while I could still get most of my money back on it. Glad I sold it when I did, if I waited until now to sell it I'd be lucky to get back half on what I paid for it.

Gelgoog
November 15, 2009, 07:56 PM
I sold mine right as the first CDNN special came out for $1299. Overnight my rifle worth $1600 dropped $400 in value and I could not even sell it at $1200. This was when I had extra mags and a side rail included. So I traded it off.

I have had 2 MSAR Gen 4 rifles and I can honestly say that I am not a fan.
A) I hate having the bolt so close to my face, it feels unnatural.
b) I hated not being able to slam mags in, instead I had to turn the rifle 45 degrees and slowly insert it or else the top round would pop loose causing a jam.
C) I also do not like only being able to shoot it from one shoulder or else suffering from a case of "fat lip" from being smacked in the face with a hot empty casing.

Overall they are well built rifle, but I think I will stick with a conventional layout, bullpups have too many trade-offs IMHO.

stiletto raggio
April 14, 2010, 03:30 PM
I don't see the AUG-stype as a full-spectrum replacement for conventional rifles, but a bullpup is a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to acquire than an SBR. Throw in ballistic efficiency and you have a great CQB gun.

As for "weak shoulder" firing, I think the concept is overrated. If I am moving through a building, the advantage of some additional cover or concealment is heavily outweighed by reduced accuracy, rate of fire and speed on target. I will train on weak shoulder firing solely for a wounded dominant arm scenario.

Uncle Mike
April 14, 2010, 03:40 PM
Throw in ballistic efficiency and you have a great CQB gun.

Try cutting a corner or firing from an odd position and THEN tell the world how great bullpups are.....

They are nice, and great fun to shoot, but like some here, if you used one for work, you most definitely would dream of AR's in your sleep!

Zerodefect
April 14, 2010, 04:32 PM
Rubbish. How could an Aug possibly be a good CQB rifle if you can't shoot it left handed?

Or is leaning your entire COM out of the left side of cover/concealment suddenly a good idea? Also if your moving right it is mucheasier to aim and hit your target shooting right handed, but if your flanking left you can switch to your left and shoot while moving left. Moving left and shotting right handed stinks. Very awkward. No thanks, I need ambi.

And the argument that you should only shoot strong side is weak. Thats a training issue. I can shoot CQB from either side equally. It's only when I need a magnified optic that I have be on my strong side. When your fighting for your life you may find yourself in some very tough spots. You don't allways get to choose your position. Sometimes you get pinned in a bad spot where you may have to shoot the Urban Prone position left handed.

I like FN's two solutions, bottom ejection(ps90) and forward ejection(fs2000).

GunsBeerFreedom
April 14, 2010, 04:37 PM
Since I'm a lefty shooter (and getting a FS2000 this weekend), could I easily convert the MSAR to shoot left handed?

Zerodefect
April 14, 2010, 04:53 PM
Why bother. You allready have an FS2000 the best BP rifle out there. I love the way that thing moves, low swing weight.

GunsBeerFreedom
April 14, 2010, 10:32 PM
Why bother? Because, I want one.

un2nedg
September 23, 2010, 04:30 AM
RATWORX hAS A GEN 4 for 1160 with 5 30 rnd amber msar mags, and now there is a 150 $ rebate from MSAR and a cool looking shirt. I couldn't pass it up

Idempotent
September 23, 2010, 02:30 PM
Rubbish. How could an Aug possibly be a good CQB rifle if you can't shoot it left handed?

Or is leaning your entire COM out of the left side of cover/concealment suddenly a good idea? Also if your moving right it is mucheasier to aim and hit your target shooting right handed, but if your flanking left you can switch to your left and shoot while moving left. Moving left and shotting right handed stinks. Very awkward. No thanks, I need ambi.

And the argument that you should only shoot strong side is weak. Thats a training issue. I can shoot CQB from either side equally. It's only when I need a magnified optic that I have be on my strong side. When your fighting for your life you may find yourself in some very tough spots. You don't allways get to choose your position. Sometimes you get pinned in a bad spot where you may have to shoot the Urban Prone position left handed.

I like FN's two solutions, bottom ejection(ps90) and forward ejection(fs2000).
These concerns are so theoretical to the vast, vast majority of firearms purchasers in the US though (we're talking 99.999%).

Now, granted, a lot of gun folk use very extremely unlikely events to justify their purchases ... but not all of us. The reduced ability to fire an MSAR with the opposite hand doesn't really affect the vast majority of what most people use them for.

Girodin
September 23, 2010, 04:01 PM
Rubbish. How could an Aug possibly be a good CQB rifle if you can't shoot it left handed?

Who says you cannot shoot it left handed? Clearly you simply are not familiar with running the platform. There are multiple techniques to shoot it left handed

Even if you just bounce a round off your chin in a worst case scenario it is not like its going to kill you or do anything to stop you from shooting*. I've seen people do it before. It was in fact rather anti climatic.

*Edit to add that there is a chance if one is really up on it then there is chance a casing can hit your face and bounce back into the chamber and cause a stoppage. If you simply keep your head back slightly or use one of the other various techniques not only will this not happen the brass wont even hit you. In sum the issue has been overblown by people that haven't really spent much time with these rifles.

wally
September 23, 2010, 09:48 PM
Rubbish. How could an Aug possibly be a good CQB rifle if you can't shoot it left handed?

Or is leaning your entire COM out of the left side of cover/concealment suddenly a good idea? Also if your moving right it is mucheasier to aim and hit your target shooting right handed, but if your flanking left you can switch to your left and shoot while moving left. Moving left and shotting right handed stinks. Very awkward. No thanks, I need ambi.

I also do not like only being able to shoot it from one shoulder or else suffering from a case of "fat lip" from being smacked in the face with a hot empty casing

Somehow, I doubt I'd notice this if someone was shooting back at me! The only two people I know you've fired shots in anger (at intruders) both report never even hearing the gun!

I like FN's two solutions, bottom ejection(ps90) and forward ejection(fs2000).

Agreed, but I don't particularly like their price!

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