Is Saiga really like an AK


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Golden_006
November 13, 2009, 12:17 PM
. . . more or less so than a Norinco SKS Sport that takes ak mags or a MAK-90? Also how would these stack up against a Ruger Mini on the battlefield?

Is the Mini just loosely based on the m-14 but is really a hunting gun?

Is a tactical Remington 700 just as formidable a battle firearm as the Ruger Mini then?

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Shear_stress
November 13, 2009, 12:23 PM
The Saiga is essentially an AKM that has been "sporterized". The Mini 14 is indeed fairly loosely based on the M-14, especially in terms of overall look and general bolt design. As far as I know, few, if any, militaries have used the Mini in battle, so its value as a "battle firearm" (whatever that means) remains to be seen.

Golden_006
November 13, 2009, 12:36 PM
So what you're saying is a Saiga is more like an AK than a Ruger Mini is to an M-14?

You're confusing me with "sporterized." I'm not sure if you mean then the Saiga is sort of loosely based on the AK like the Ruger Mini to the M14.

To me a battle rifle means if you show up to a guerrilla war (not that I'm thinking of joining one) -- you bring a Saiga and not a Mini -- because one is for having fun on your ranch, the other is for a 10 hour gun fight. Or can both be used as such?

nalioth
November 13, 2009, 12:41 PM
The Saiga is a Kalashnikov. Not "based on" a Kalashnikov - IS a Kalashnikov.

It just has some "extra Klinton Krap" on it to make it "sporting".

Pulling these "extras" reveals an actual Kalashnikov design.

Zundfolge
November 13, 2009, 12:49 PM
The Saiga is a Kalashnikov. Not "based on" a Kalashnikov - IS a Kalashnikov.

It just has some "extra Klinton Krap" on it to make it "sporting".

Pulling these "extras" reveals an actual Kalashnikov design.
Not only is the Saiga a pure, real, actual Kalashnikov (albeit with goofy sporting stocks) They are built at the same Izhmash factory that they built Soviet military AKs.

So to answer the original question; No a Saiga is not "like" an AK, it IS an AK.


Furthermore, any gun you point at the enemy is a "battle rifle" :D

Shear_stress
November 13, 2009, 01:03 PM
Furthermore, any gun you point at the enemy is a "battle rifle"

Seriously. No offense to the OP, but I get a little tired of hearing this jargon applied to every rifle under the sun. Some decades ago, a relative of mine joined a rebellion armed with a bolt-action .410 shotgun. Does that make the .410 a "battle firearm"? I guess so.

Sam1911
November 13, 2009, 01:19 PM
Is Saiga really like an AK . . . more or less so than a Norinco SKS Sport that takes ak mags or a MAK-90? Also how would these stack up against a Ruger Mini on the battlefield?

A Saiga, as noted, IS a Kalashnikov. Just has the trigger group moved back a bit to work with a conventional butt stock, different hand guards, and needs a slightly different magazine. All of these things are cosmetic and can be changed easily to make it the same gun as any other SEMI-AUTO version of an AKM.

A MAK-90 is a Kalashnikov, too. Just made in China.

An SKS is a totally different rifle. Just as reliable as an AK, but substantively different.

How would these stack up against a Mini-14 on the battelfield? Hard to say. All can have problems. All do have reputations for very good reliability. None have reputations for exellent accuracy.

What criteria will you use to evaluate them? How to they stand up on the battlefield? Well, if you stack them just right, I'd think they'd stand up for decades, at least -- if the wind don't knock 'em over...! :D Seriously -- what's your measurement?

Is the Mini just loosely based on the m-14 but is really a hunting gun?
The Mini is loosely based on the APPEARANCE of the M-14. It is a semi-auto rifle in .223. There are better hunting guns. The caliber(s) available are somewhat limited. There are worse hunting guns, too. Same could be said about an M-14. What are your criteria? Accuracy? Ease of putting optics on it? Rate of fire? Mean rounds between failures?

Is a tactical Remington 700 just as formidable a battle firearm as the Ruger Mini then? What is a "tactical" M700, to you? A M700 is a VERY formidable rifle, but it doesn't have the characteristic features of a main battle rifle or infantry rifle as adopted by modern militaries. As a highly accurate, long-range, anti-personnel rifle, they do get quite a bit of use by our armed forces. But not as a "battle rifle."

A Ruger Mini-14 shares a few features of many common infantry rifles/carbines. But, it isn't fielded by any military forces (that I know of) so it isn't much of a "battle rifle" either.

-Sam

Golden_006
November 13, 2009, 01:23 PM
Seriously. No offense to the OP, but I get a little tired of hearing this jargon applied to every rifle under the sun. Some decades ago, a relative of mine joined a rebellion armed with a bolt-action .410 shotgun. Does that make the .410 a "battle firearm"? I guess so.

I don't know -- did his side win? Seriously though, on the surface I would say no and I guess it also depends on what the other side was armed with too. But I see your point.

I can't believe how many posts I've read here about military histpry where several Communists countries sent their "volunteers" to battle with no firearm.

On the other hand, I read how on THR all the time how a Ruger Mini isn't worth the wood it's made of because an AR is so much better since it can fire 1000 rounds and keep on ticking/is good to go up till 500 yards and blah blah blah. But I think the price tag has a lot to do with it.

But I am starting to get the point -- a gun is a gun is a gun and better to have one than nothing just about any situation that requires one. So why all the arguning on here about Mini v. AR?

damagedworld
November 13, 2009, 01:37 PM
The saiga is by far my most favorite most dependable firearm i own..

Avenger29
November 13, 2009, 01:50 PM
So what you're saying is a Saiga is more like an AK than a Ruger Mini is to an M-14?

The Saiga is an AK that's been modified enough to allow it to be imported as a working firearm. It's up to you to either add the parts to make it resemble an AK or buy one from somebody that has done the conversion (and the Saiga can be had from Mild to Wild as far as degree of conversion). They are a tremendous value, and the .308 and shotgun versions are pretty damn unique as far as firearms go.

The Mini-14 sortakinda looks like the M-14, shares some of the design features, and is known for pricey magazines, being somewhat innaccurate, but generally being reliable, but it does not really compare to the M-14.

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