[GigaBuist]

I'm looking for member feedback on this one... because I have never met a person opposed to firearms that actually knew the laws that we jump through.

I've seen a few recent posts that showed editorials and such quoting the "gun show loophole" and realize that a large percentage of the population actually thinks that you can show up at a gun show and magically walk out with an AK-47 without any background check just because you were at a magical gunshow.

I currently work with a largely anti-gun number of people in my current job. I've been there about 11 months now and just about everybody knows how pro-gun I am. Filling an ammo can with candy for October and leaving it open on my desk for passer's by helped :D .

'Round three weeks ago I decided it was time for a new handgun, or two, so I went to the police station to get a permit which I must do since I don't have a CCW in Michigan. That took my whole lunch break. The anti's asked me if I wanted to join them for lunch (very common occurance) and I said I couldn't because I had to go to the police station to get permits, etc. They just sort of looked at me with a puzzled expression as I explained that I had to do this to buy a handgun. So much for any nut job just buying a handgun, eh? A few days later, when I had one purchased, I again took a lunch break to run my butt down to the police station and register the thing. Again, they're amazed that this has to take place.

They ask about the "gun show loophole" sometimes and just stare like sheep when I explain that yes, you can walk out of a gunshow with a firearm in under an hour no questions asked.. aside from that whole call to the FBI thing and the instant background check, yellow form, etc. Oh, and if you want a pistol you'd better bring the Michigan green purchase permit.

Just today, a fence-sitter type fellow (my manager), and I had a small interchange about gun laws. This isn't something I bring up all the time, it just naturally occurs I guess.

A new indoor range, first of it's kind in our area, just opened up. It's halfway between work and home which is only a 5 mile drive. We're under some really high stress crap right now and they all know I like to head out and toss 100rnds down range to relax sometimes. I mentioned that I'll probably start heading there on lunch breaks now and again because it's so convienient.. but that means running from work to home, picking up a pistol, head to the range, and then back home... then back to work. Adds about 5-6 miles to the deal. My boss just looked at me puzzled and then I explained that odds are, I'm not allowed to have a gun in my car while at work. Honestly, I haven't read the entire employee manual. It's about 200+ pages... longer than Michigan's actual firearm law code. He looks at me kinda funny and says, "well, do you keep them in your trunk?" I respond, "yes, I have to by law. Unloaded and seperated from the ammo." Just looks at me stupid and says, "Well, who the hell would know if you had one in your trunk? Save yourself some time.. .I sure ain't going to say anything." Nice manager :)

Point is there... he had no idea that I actually HAD to keep the locked up and in the trunk. For all he knew it was legal here to just toss it on the passenger seat or something.

Sorry for the long tirade of nothing significant... just wondering what others run into. Of course the original question remains: Do anti's actually know the laws that are already on the books?

PS: The manager isn't opposed to firearms... in fact when asked about my hobbies during the interview I mentioned it and he mentioned a few times he'd been out with friends and got to shoot things here and there. With that range so close (and us being uber stressed) I just might get him out there some lunch period to rattle off a mag or two from an AK... maybe we'll get another pro-gunner out of it.

[Standing Wolf]

Do anti's actually know the laws that are already on the books?

No, of course not. At best, they're bliss ninnies who believe disarming the law-abiding will somehow reduce violence by law-breakers. Only the profoundly illogical and/or ignorant could believe such nonsense. The majority of anti-Second Amendment bigots have no interest in law, laws, crime, violence, or public safety. Their intent is to disarm every least, last law-abiding American citizen.

It's difficult to subjugate people who can shoot back.

[4570Rick]

What Standing Wolf said. :banghead:

[Tamara]

A few days later, when I had one purchased, I again took a lunch break to run my butt down to the police station and register the thing. Again, they're amazed that this has to take place.

Actually, so am I. :eek:

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I second Standing Wolf (blissninnies/sheeple) AND Tamara (I thought gun registration was illegal).

[gunsmith]

they do not have a clue. one time I asked an anti what an assault weapon was,being as he wanted them outlawed,he couldn't tell me.
I asked a gun owner in Northern CA how hard it was to get a ccw in his county and he told me "thats all Federal now"
I am an Armed Security Guard and my fellow Guards don't even know
the law,my brother is a cop and I know more then him half of the time!
Most gun owners don't know the law so naturally the sheep know even less.
all they know is what Rosie O'Donnell and CBS tells them.

[Don Gwinn]

In your defense, folks, you don't live in Michigan. I do know their laws, but only because I heard about it here. If I'm not mistaken, the registration is technically not "registration" because it is only a "safety inspection." However, at these safety inspections, the serial number, make, and model of the gun are recorded and filed away with the owner's name, address, etc. :rolleyes:


A little over a year ago, our local liberal radio blowhard said that "something is very wrong with Illinois' gun laws when anybody off the street can just walk into a gun store and walk right back out with a loaded gun!"

Now, keep in mind that in Illinois, someone buying his first gun must:

1. Apply for a FOID card. Get your picture taken, fill out the forms, mail it off with a small fee, wait. The ISP will (supposedly) do a thorough background check. When they're not busy, this should take 6-8 weeks. When they are, as for instance during the months before deer season, it can take several months. If they have a problem and decide not to issue, they WILL NOT call you. A friend of mine once had a false positive stop the issuance of his FOID card. When he called after six months, there were no apologies offered for the fact that nobody had even tried to contact him.

2. Go to the gun store, pick out the gun. (this is the fun part)

3. Fill out Form 4473.

4. Undergo NICS background check. Usually, at least for me, this means at least one false denial. This is apparently not uncommon, but it mysteriously disappears the second time the dealer calls. My local dealer is no longer fazed by it.

5. Go home and wait three days for a handgun, one day for a long gun.

6. Pick up your gun, and "walk right out with it!" Try not to be a menace to society, you instant murderer, you.


I have been pushing and prodding this guy to retract that statement for over a year. I finally gave up. I argued, I showed him the laws, I even once told him I'd pay him $10,000 if he could walk into any gun store in Springfield and walk out with a gun, provided he did so without committing any felonies. No dice, but no apology, either.

[XLMiguel]

No, they're largely clueless.

This is both good and bad.

Bad, because ignorance is bliss, and there are a lot of happy idiots out there. They feel 'safe'.

Good, because when they find out how badly mis-informed they are, it opens the opprotunity for dialog (as touchy-feeely as that may sound), to wit:
"No, guns aren't registered in VA . . . . " followed by a brief synopsisi of VA gun laws . . .
"Yes, I have a CWP, let me tell you what I had to do to get it. . . and BTW, you can get one, too . . . I'll show you how."
"one gun/month/waiting periods are meaningless, esp. when you're in trouble NOW, or unless you wish to shoot someone with a caliber you don't already own . . .:neener: "
"911 is useless, you're in trouble NOW, & the cops don't have to come (no dis to LEOs intended),e.g. you don't wait till you stove's afire to go buy a fire extinguisher, right?"

Pardon for preachin' to the choir, but you get the drift, yes?

[rock jock]

a large percentage of the population actually thinks that you can show up at a gun show and magically walk out with an AK-47 without any background check just because you were at a magical gunshow.
In many states, you can, IF the gun is sold under a private transaction.

[Mark Tyson]

Actually I think some of the more educated antis do know the law. They just lie about it.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

We must qualify what an AK-47 is. A SA version of the AK is all you will walk out with (for most of us normal people).

[Sean Cloherty]

Absolutely not!

Feeling safe is far better than being safe for that type otherwise they might want to examine facts and not run on emotion. It probably makes hardcore antis uncomfortable to think of the possibilities of being a victim so it becomes ostrich time.

Whenever I discuss the extent of 2A protections I always get the "You mean that you would allow civilians to own machine guns ??!!!?". A lttle NFA history usually puts there minds in weirds places. :D

I assume they are thinking, but I may have just tripped a circuit breaker. Certainly worth the price of admission for the confused looks.

[Top_Notch]

I had a disagreement with a fellow "anti" co-worker. He has some lame brained system worked out in his head about how guns should only be "loaned" out to individuals not within the National Guard (Militia). I simply asked him, how his system did not violate the Second Amendment. (Pretty easy question, eh?)

To refresh his memory, I paraphrased a portion of the Second Amendment, namely "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed." He, dissatisfied with my statement adamantly argued my paraphrase of the SA was incorrect. We looked up the actual wording on the Internet and his reply was (and I quote) "That can't possibly be the Second Amendment...it's too short!" I stated that he was looking for the "Unabridged Liberal Version" so that he could misconstrue it to support his argument. What a dolt!

[tfurey19]

1) Anti-gunners
2) The police
3) The prosecuters
4) The politicians

This is the list in order of ignorance

The only people that really do seem to pay attention to the nuances of the laws are people like you and me

[Barbara]

I really don't think a lot of them do. I had a young woman from a "typically" liberal college contact me a few weeks ago. She was writing a paper on how easy it is to get a handgun in Michigan and wanted "pro" and "anti" opinions on it. I told her sure, it was easy as soon as you go through the 10 or 15 different steps. Then I listed them. She wrote back and said she was going to have to reconsider the whole thing because she didn't know there was so much paperwork and now it didn't fit her thesis. We wrote back and forth a little and I think she went away a lot less anti-gun than she was before. I can't say I brought her to our side, but I think facts speak for themselves. She seemed like a pretty nice young woman, too, so hopefully, she'll see the light sometime.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

It seems to me that we are winning the argument but losing the war. We provide documented evidence that it is not easy to obtain firearms to placate those that would add even more requirements. This is a false argument (although apparently effective in placating the ignorant). We should be arguing the inalienable right to defend ourselves with minimal interference.

[tfurey19]

I am a recent graduate of Vassar, one of the most liberal institutions in the US. During my entire time there the gun issue NEVER came up. A disappointing thing for me, but from talking to people they really don't understand what is going on. Actually they were very interested in learning to shoot. I think the only reason that people come out in support of these things is because it is part of the democratic platorm.

The country some day might go democratic. We need to make sure that we work to make the gun issue a non-partisan one and that can only be done by educating the youth. In other words great job!

[Mute]

Let's face it. There are so many crappy gun laws that probably most pro-gun people don't know many of these laws.

[cuchulainn]

Actually I think some of the more educated antis do know the law. They just lie about it. Bingo.

[hksw]

Do anti's actually know the laws that are already on the books?

IMO, I don't think the general public know all of the laws.

[JonnyB]

hksw nailed it.

I had written a letter to the local paper when the Minnesota legislature was debating the carry law. Several people at work - mostly women -mentioned it, and were curious about carry permits. When I explained that the Police Chief or Sheriff could deny a permit application for any, or no, reason, they were stunned. One said "Well, *that's* stupid." They couldn't imagine that a decent person in Minnesota couldn't just get a permit for the asking.

The average person is ignorant about firearms laws, if not firearms in general. My sister gave me the old "They'll just take your gun away and shoot you with it" line. I was able to convince her that such things were so rare as to be unheard of - except for cops, who must intervene, and unlike the rest of us, can't just run away. I did tell her that if you can't stand the thought of shooting another person, even a low-life criminal, then don't carry a gun.

I also raies a stink whenever anyone uses the "gun show loophole" within hearing distance.

[Hutch]

Another one with HKSW. Most folks, not just anti's, don't really know the law, including many or most of those in charge of enforcing it. I have talked to other, less politically aware gunowners and tried to describe in layman's terms, the true affects of the AWB, and watched their bug-eyed, slack-jawed amazement. The majority of the people in this country have learned all they "know" about firearms by watch tripe on TV and trash in the movie theater.

If you get your knowledge of guns from watching "Natural Born Killers" and your appreciation of the Constitution by watching Oprah, you might be an anti, too. And that's too bad.

[spacemanspiff]

gigabuist, i applaud your attempts at eduacting the antis. one word of advice, if you would accept it:

be careful who you tell your business to.
now i'm not saying to hide the fact that you are pro-gun, or to be ashamed of it, but your post reminds me of how my roommate is. my roommate gives out way too much information to anyone in earshot. doesnt matter if its a complete stranger or an uninterested person who could care less.

in my younger years, i did much of the same. but as i've aged i now abide by a 'need to know' mindset. my friends, family, coworkers, dont all need to know my business.
i'm not criticizing you, just making a comment. if it were me, i wouldnt announce to all who would listen that i'm going out at lunchtime to pick up my new gun or whatnot. in fact, the couple times i have actually gone out at lunch to pick up a transfer from my FFL, i've only told my supervisor because he is pro-gun and likes to talk guns even if he doesnt shoot. mind you, i live in a very pro-gun state and most of my coworkers are pro-gun as well.

but that might just be me.... to help educated the antis, i've learned that keeping calm while explaining the actual laws goes a long ways towards proving that we gunowners are: 1. peaceful; 2. not prone to violent outbursts; 3. rational; 4. law abiding; 5. more concerned than the antis are about keeping our homes and neighborhoods safe from crime.

[Sergeant Bob]

Don Gwinn If I'm not mistaken, the registration is technically not "registration" because it is only a "safety inspection."
That is correct, "technically".:fire:
6. Pick up your gun, and "walk right out with it!" Try not to be a menace to society, you instant murderer, you.
You forget to buy ammo!
"Sir, I'll need to see your FOID card in order to sell you that Bucket O' Bullets"

[Monkeyleg]

They are either ignorant of the law or are lying.

During the debate over concealed carry in the WI state assembly the other night, I heard the anti-gun legislators make these arguments:

1. "We don't need guns in schools." It's already against the law.

2. "We're going to have drunks shooting up the state." It's already illegal to handle a firearm while intoxicated.

3. "We'll be putting more guns in the hands of children." You have to be 21 under state law to purchase a handgun.

4. "We're going to have people killing each other over minor arguments." Murder is already illegal.

I could go on, but you get the idea. These are the people that have written the laws.

[Alan Fud]

Posted by 7.62FullMetalJacket: ... I thought gun registration was illegal ... Don't know about other states but NJ requires you to obtain a purchase permit from the chief of police before buying a handgun. The buyer gets one copy. The seller gets a copy. The issuing authority gets a copy and the state police gets a copy -- thus creating a paper trail ... who knows what happens with that information -- I doubt that it just sits in a file somewhere but I could be wrong.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

My point was that gun registration is supposed to be illegal but is not in certain states/cities where the practice occurs.