[gun-fucious]

Paypal no longer allowing firearms-related transactions


"This comes directly from Paypal, which is owned by ebay, and shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone:

You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898. Certain related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited, as described in more detail below. In addition, it is the responsibility of users to abide by all applicable laws when dealing with the sale of permitted antique firearms, ammunition, replicas, militaria and other associated items.

You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise any firearms produced after 1898. This includes all 'pre-ban,' sporting, collectible, and curio and relic (C&R) firearms, regardless of their present capability to fire a shot.

In addition, you may not use PayPal to sell or advertise kits (that can be used to create a firearm) or illegal firearm components such as silencers, converters (which converts a firearm to automatic capability), and short barrels.

You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise high capacity magazines (magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds). In addition, sellers of other ammunition with propellant (such as gunpowder) are responsible for abiding by all laws and postal regulations."

You can read the complete story at:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=firearms

[Mark Tyson]

WHAT!??? What the hell is their problem? How do they intend to enforce this, anyway? That's it, time to fire up the word processer. Where's my "Angry Letter" template . . .

[P95Carry]

***!!!!!! So what's made them get all so high and mighty?!

I have had an account for some time ... but will very likely withdraw funds I have in there .... and let them know that they will not be required for some planned merchant services.

:cuss:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And ........ when you go to their site ... HOW THE HELL ...... do you find some way of contacting them ... the simple means of emailing them on this crazy policy.? Where is the ''Contact Us'' link.:banghead:

[Aleko]

Haven't they had this rule for a while now?

[Sean Smith]

I would suggest that everybody here check to see if they have a PayPal account, then shut it down and tell them why.

[P95Carry]

tell them why. That Sean ... is my first priority but ... how?? Apart from a customer service number there seems no easy route for email comment/feedback .... or it is so well hidden ........... :mad:

[Sean Smith]

You can provide feedback when you shut down your account online. Fish around the "My Account" area and you will find a link to "Close Account."

I bet alot of folks have PayPal accounts to do transactions through eBay, and lots of firearms sites used to use PayPal for purchases until quite recently. Please have the guts to shut down your account if you have one.

Haven't they had this rule for a while now?

If they did, they did a good job keeping it a secret until recently, since lots of firearms sites accepted PayPal until very recently (e.g. Gunbroker.com). Judging by the sudden disappearance of links to PayPal at such sites, I'd guess they decided to do the world a favor :rolleyes: and crack down.

Of course, as a private business they have a right to allow or not allow any transactions they please. And we have the right to tell them to get stuffed.

[QuickDraw]

Ahhhhhh!For once in my life I have the jump on everybody!:D
I closed my account about a year ago due to horror stories
heard on another forum! I think I'll still write em' a note though!
I'll tell ya another thing,I don't use ebay as much either.

QuickDraw

[Mike Irwin]

Who's to say whether the money is going for a firearm, or firearm related items, or say... clothing?

[Bill Hook]

There aren't many good substitutes for PayPal (suggestions?), so I plan on using them, in contravention of their rules, intentionally. They can probably survive the loss of many thousands of gun owners, but I find that it might be harder for me to buy another gun w/o this option, and that's the whole point - to stimulate and perpetuate gun ownership through commerce. To each his own. I will try to send off an e-mail stating my intentions to these SOBs, though.

[SoCalGeek]

Couldn't a person, say, sell a piece of paper using Paypal for $X and give the buyer a gun in a completely unrelated ;) private transaction?

[swingset]

old story, but anyhow, how do you advertise or sell with Paypal!?!?!?

It's not an ad site or an auction site. Ebay is, but Paypal is only a method of transferring money. Ebay has prohibited guns forever, so nothing has changed.

It doesn't say you can't PAY for a gun with Paypal, or receive money for a gun, does it?

Then, there's no problem, end of story. Proceed.

[Jeff White]

PayPal has had this policy for some time, and it applies to their store frint operation. I don't know how they'd know what you were buying..you just say merchandise non-auction.

Jeff

[wendy]

Good Luck trying to contact them.
I have been trying for over a year to resolve an issue
with my account and to close it out.

I have yet to hear back from them. :cuss:

I contact any sellers before bidding and explain
that I do not use Paypal and get their permission to
use an alternate form of payment before bidding. :cool:

I refuse to do business with company's that are not PRO-RKBA!

[fmjcafe]

I stopped using pay pal years ago. Any online transactions I get involved in with private individuals get paid via money order. It takes a bit longer but to me was worth it. I can send a money order anywhere in the lower 48 in 3 days for $3.85 using priority mail.

[Jack19]

This isn't new.

Just make arrangements with your buyer/seller to not state the actual merchandise in the payment. Personally, I like "Original copy of the US Constitution."

[Old Fuff]

If you are having trouble closing an account - Pay-Pal, AOL, whoever - contact the Consumer Fraud Division of your State’s Attorney General’s Office and file a formal complaint. You can also file a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission if the matter has to do with the Internet. While it’s unlikely, enough complaints made to your Internet Service Provider might get them blocked. It always helps to hit them where it hurts.

[Black92LX]

or illegal firearm components such as silencers, converters (which converts a firearm to automatic capability), and short barrels.

When did, silencers, full autos, and short barrells become illegal?:what:

canceling the account and writing a letter.

is it true they are owned by e-bay??? if so no more online auctions.

I get involved in with private individuals get paid via money order. It takes a bit longer but to me was worth it

Also if they do not send you the product it becomes a federal offense know as mail fraud.:neener:

[Sean Smith]

It doesn't say you can't PAY for a gun with Paypal, or receive money for a gun, does it?

Well, the seller can't use it to sell the gun, which is the same thing.

[Tamara]

Funny, I could swear I just recieved some money through PayPal from an acquaintance, the sum of which was the exact total of the price of a gun he'd just expressed interest in. :scrutiny:

Anyhow, this has been Ebay's policy for years, and has been PayPal's written policy since they were purchased by Ebay. Thought y'all knew.

Ebay does not allow transactions on stuff that may be illegal in order to minimize their liability. For instance, the let you advertise 10-round mags, but not "High Capacity" ones. This is so that the cat who gets arrested in NJ or CA can't say "Well, I bought it on Ebay!"

You can buy all the gun parts you want on Ebay (except recievers) and if it wasn't for Ebay, the next time you brought your obsolete gun in to be repaired, you might be outta luck. Gunsmiths do a lot of trading of old gun parts on Ebay.

[Sean Smith]

They can probably survive the loss of many thousands of gun owners, but I find that it might be harder for me to buy another gun w/o this option, and that's the whole point - to stimulate and perpetuate gun ownership through commerce.

Probably true. After all, their own policy equates selling legal firearms with selling human body parts in their "fair use" policy, so it seems logical to infer that they would be glad to see gun owners gone.

Of course, most of the online sites that deal in actual guns have taken down their PayPal icons anyway, or at least the ones I visit regularly. So I don't see it hindering my ability to buy a gun, either.

It wouldn't surprise me if this has been the case for a while, since I never used PayPal that much anyway... just a small number of fairly large transactions over a couple of years.

[C.R.Sam]

A whole slew of Pay Pal information here.
http://paypalsucks.com/

Sam

[Thrash1982]

WOOHOOO!!! Just closed my PayPal account. Never using them again.

[Correia]

Looks like typical corporate CYA to me.

They forbid anything that may be illegal somewhere, that way it doesn't come back to bite them when some guy in California gets busted with a 30 round magazine that he bought via paypal.

Stupid I know. But I believe that this has been their policy for years. We have discussed it here and on TFL. I've been hesitant to continue using Paypal for when I sell shirts and hats, but there are so many folks online that that is the only method that they will use.

[rock jock]

I read that site that Sam references two years ago when I considered opening an acct. I pretty much decided I would never work with that outfit. I also don't like the idea that they would have my bank acct. numbers.

[45R]

ITs old News.

[DDGator]

You can definitely get around the Pay Pal restriction if you care to. When you send someone money you can use the description of "quasi cash." I have never heard of PayPal rejecting an eBay transaction for magazines, holsters, or anything similar. Its a restriction with no teeth and no real enforcement.

That being said, my on-line company continues to accept PayPal (its still a popular choice with gun owners), but we have also incurred additional costs to be able to process credit cards directly (not through Pay Pal -- just a regular merchant account) and we give our customers that option.

People keep telling me there are PayPal alternatives, but there aren't any in wide use that I know of yet.

Duane
www.KDHolsters.com