Who MAkes The Best Optic Clones For AR15?


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sigbear
November 13, 2009, 10:02 PM
Considering a new Bushmaster AR15 and I don't know much about tactical optics, I have always shot with iron sights and don't know if I would even like optics, so, I don't want to spend to much on optics only to leave it in the safe.

Any suggestions on quality optic clones (Eotech, Aimpoint, or ACOG ) or are they just junk?

Sigbear

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taliv
November 13, 2009, 10:06 PM
they are all junk

EvanWilliams
November 13, 2009, 10:09 PM
I find myself in the same situation.
I accidentally highjacked Spence's thread on best reflex sight.
Read that thread but please don't be rude and jack it as I did. :)

Avenger29
November 13, 2009, 10:14 PM
How about instead of wasting your money on a clone, either shoot somebody else's rifle with an optic on it or just go ahead and buy an Aimpoint. You won't loose much resale, and I'd bet you could resale it for less loss than the money you'd pay for a clone, if you get my drift. If you like it, then you've got a high quality optic ready to rock.

If you cannot absolutely stomach the thought of spending the money, then a Vortex strikefire (the magnifier is useless, though). There is also the Bushnell Trophy MP that you might want to look at. Older generation Aimpoints are also available- I've gotten an Aimpoint 5000 for $100.

Mags
November 13, 2009, 10:14 PM
Burris or Vortex they both need to be a little more brighter but they are pretty rugged. I had a Vortex now I have 2 Aimpoints. That should tell ya' something.

The Deer Hunter
November 13, 2009, 10:17 PM
Well if you've never used an optic before, that means you haven't spoiled yourself. Use your iron sights.

It never makes sense that someone wants to buy a $1200 rifle, just to put an $80 "tactical" Barska scope on.

Avenger29
November 13, 2009, 10:21 PM
It never makes sense that someone wants to buy a $1200 rifle, just to put an $80 "tactical" Barska scope on.

+1

Bad glass isn't worth the money you waste on it. Can't afford quality? Save your money until you can. The irons aren't going anywhere.

There are some good options for budget optics, but you will be spending more than a chinese knockoff.

steven58
November 13, 2009, 10:55 PM
If it's going on a rimfire trainer/fun gun then try one of the Primary arms clones. http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=18&categoryId=5 they are great for that purpose.

If you are putting it on a real AR then it should be a "real" optic.
That means an Aimpoint, EOTech, Trijicon or similar PROVEN device that you wouldn't hesitate betting your life on.

Spend some time at ar15.com and M4Carbine.net. Read their optics and mounts section. When you decide what suits your needs check out their equipment exchanges, there are some great deals there.

Save up your $$. a gently used "real-deal" would be a better investment than a brand new clone.

In the meantime, learn them irons!

Z-Michigan
November 13, 2009, 11:55 PM
If you're going to bet your life on the gun, I can see wisdom in getting an Aimpoint, EOTech or Trijicon. I will note that a busy local trainer reports a lot of failures with EOTech units, including the latest models. I have an EOTech 552 and like it a lot, but the reports of failures are worrisome.

I also have a Vortex Strikefire. I was initially not too impressed, especially after using a friend's Aimpoint Comp ML2 (?) at the range. So I subsequently bought an Aimpoint. So far I'm actually not as pleased with a genuine Aimpoint as I had hoped to be. The dot isn't perfectly circular, and in other respects I find little benefit over the Strikefire. The main benefits I see are the reputed ruggedness, the reputed battery life, and the incredibly bright brightest setting (though still not as bright as the "melt your eyes" brightest setting of an EOTech). I'm actually thinking about reselling this Aimpoint!

Despite my initial impression of the Vortex Strikefire, it's grown on me a bit. The brightest setting isn't always bright enough and the dot isn't a perfect dot (neither is my Aimpoint), but otherwise it works great, and the price/value is hard to beat.

I don't own a Trijicon reflex but have looked through them at the store. It's kinda small and not the brightest, but it doesn't use or need batteries and basically has nothing to break. If I commit to using a dot sight on a go-to gun, I may just get a Trijicon. Alternately, I may just use a Vortex Strikefire with a good set of BUIS, or even select an irons-only gun as my go-to.

I would not hesitate at all to put a Strikefire on a range gun or hunting gun. Also, if I were going for optical benefits over reliability and battery life, I think the EOTech is the best optically - I just pause a bit given what I hear of durability in rough use.

Quentin
November 14, 2009, 02:07 AM
Well I'm sticking with iron sights, I love the A4 carry handle sights and the flexibility built-in. Having a blast with the Santose IBZ and RIBZ mods to the sight. I'm getting old at 61 but so far am blessed with good eyesight for everything except needing glasses for reading. I may change my tune some day but for now there's no problem keeping the front sight in focus. Nothing against optics and maybe they do get you on target a skosh faster but I'll remain old school a little longer.

RockyMtnTactical
November 14, 2009, 06:41 AM
Nothing beats the real thing.

rtn
November 14, 2009, 11:01 AM
Stick with a high quality A2 upper with good 1/4MOA irons. My White Oak Service Rifle costs less than the tacticool junk I see at the range and performs a whole lot better.

X-Rap
November 14, 2009, 11:32 AM
I have a Trijicon Reflex and an EoTec on carbines, each has its place. The Trijicon has a larger dot 4/6 min while the EoTec has a 1". For hunting coyotes I like the EoTec but for all out durability and reliability I'll that the Trijicon hands down plus it is one of the more compact units.
I also have a 2x7 Leupold on another that I bought used for under $100. Put a set of risers under the mounts and it basicly does what any other scope could do less illumination. I would suggest trying out a low power variable and if it suits you your set just get risers or high mounts or you will never be happy.

kwelz
November 14, 2009, 12:42 PM
If you can't afford good glass then learn with Irons till you can. There is no reason to buy cheap stuff, it only means you are going to spend more money in the long run. I am a huge Aimpoint and EOtech fan. Aimpoints are a bit more durable and have longer battery life, but I find the eotech easier to use.

wally
November 14, 2009, 05:32 PM
and the dot isn't a perfect dot (neither is my Aimpoint)

This is because you have a bit of astigmatism in your eye. Don't believe me, take a photo through the sight with the dot on I'll bet the dot is round in the picture.

Lots of cheap == crap commnets, but my experience with cheap scopes and red dots is generally pretty good. Yup they ain't as good as my Luepold, Nikon, and EOTech but I've outfited 4-8 guns with the cheap stuff for the price of one of the good.

Bottom line, I shoot better with a cheap optic than I do with irons so they are very much "worth it". 50+ year old eyeballs do not need state of the art optics to be helped greatly. In my 20s I had no use for optics. Since I had Lasik a bit over a year ago, I'm able to at least use iron sights again, but I still do better aided by the cheap optics.

The better optics are clearly better, but I'd rather buy more guns & ammo than more expensive optics. All things considered the Vortex Strikefire red/green dot is well worth $150 (agree the magnifier is pretty useless), also I really like the Barska M16 Electro sight, very bright and its held up well on my RRA LR-308, well worth the ~$70 I paid. In the $200 range I like the Millet 1x4 DMS scope and the Burris Fastfire super small red dot, which is small enough for handguns.

Who'd but a $30 optic on a $1000+ gun, I would!:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67297&d=1195127161
Its worked so well I've never felt the need for better. I got the mount (over $100! :( ) and had the red dot was hot to try the new mount on the gun so I put the two together and was thrilled with how well it worked speed shooting steel plates.


--wally.

JDGray
November 14, 2009, 06:48 PM
Any suggestions on quality optic clones

Leapold, Niteforce, Eoh-tek, Aympoint, Eah-cogg, all make some nice opticks:evil::neener:

nwilliams
November 14, 2009, 07:13 PM
I've heard really good things about the ACOG clone made by Bushnell called the Trophy 1 x 32mm MP Red Dot.
http://www.bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/trophy/730132P/

I have no real experience with this scope but I did look at the one at my local shop and it seem really nice. Amazon sells them for around $140 which seems pretty decent. I don't think it's really an ACOG clone other than the fact that cosmetically it looks kinda looks like one.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/73-0132P.jpg

knights_armorer
November 14, 2009, 07:34 PM
in my opinion, the mark of a truly proficient rifleman is what he can do with the irons. once they are mastered true m.o.a. accuracy, as well as instant target aquisition is a thing of beauty once attained.

ive seen a marksman with one of our rifles remove the front sight post and simply use the rear aperture and front bunny ears shoot 5/8" 5 shot groups @100yds in an impromptu exhibition. he is so familiar with the sight picture, from memory, that he can use the bunny ears as his front sight reference. (i can do it too but 8" groups just aint the same)

all the new holo type, and red dot sights are cool, and yes, i own many, but when the s### hits the fan, a rifleman versed with his irons is a force to be reckoned with.

c919
November 14, 2009, 07:42 PM
I'd look into the Bushnell Holosight. It's very similar to an Eotech, but a few bucks cheaper. You can find them new for about $250 online.

I have a new Eotech 510aa on the way for around $350 to go on my new M&P15. As I saw it, it was just worth the extra hundred to have an Eotech, but I think the Holosight would have been just fine as well (especially if it was just a range toy/safe queen).

bang_bang
November 14, 2009, 07:45 PM
+1 on the Bushnell Trophy 1x32 if you can't get the real-deal.

I have one on my S&W MP15. Works great for me. Sure it's not "battle-worthy," but I've dropped critters of different sizes from a considerable distance more than once. I like it just fine...but do wish it had 3x magnification.


http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/ss_drummer/DSC00766.jpg

Z-Michigan
November 15, 2009, 01:07 AM
This is because you have a bit of astigmatism in your eye. Don't believe me, take a photo through the sight with the dot on I'll bet the dot is round in the picture.


I may try that, but FWIW, my $50 Truglo dot sight does appear to have a perfect dot, as does my friend's Aimpoint (just not mine). And the Vortex Strikefire has different apparent shapes of the dot between the red and green settings.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 15, 2009, 01:36 AM
First and foremost: What are you going to do with the rifle?

Cannot even begin to answer until we first know that. Because "junk" is a relative term. For a fun rifle, NcStar stuff is generally NOT junk. But for a serious fighting / self-defense carbine, that SAME stuff may become "junk", due to the relatively of it.

I don't see how the Bushnell is an ACOG clone if it's only 1x, whereas the ACOG is magnified; just sayin. More of an Aimpoint clone, cept it ain't, cause it doesn't look it. So it's not a clone of anything really

Toonces
November 16, 2009, 01:32 AM
IMO you will be further ahead if you avoid the clones and buy a used Aimpoint. You have to be quick, but some good deals come up on the various equipment exchanges. Still not cheap, but you'll only have to buy/cry once that way. Between the frustration and ammo wasted on a clone that won't hold zero, use the irons until you can get a quality scope/dot. (I had cheap scopes on a prairie dog hunt, by the end of the week I was ready to throw my rifles off a bluff just to punish the scopes. I've not bought additional firearms just so I could afford better glass for the firearms I already own.)


ive seen a marksman with one of our rifles remove the front sight post and simply use the rear aperture and front bunny ears shoot 5/8" 5 shot groups @100yds in an impromptu exhibition. he is so familiar with the sight picture, from memory, that he can use the bunny ears as his front sight reference. (i can do it too but 8" groups just aint the same)


Based on your user name and the way you worded this post, I'm going to assume you work for Knight's Armament Company. If you do work for KAC, you won't be surprised when the above claim is met with some healthy scepticism. Multiple 5/8" 5 shot groups at 100 yards with neutered open sights? No offense intended, but this sounds too good to be true.

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