dry firing...here we go...


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cash05458
November 14, 2009, 05:46 PM
Can anyone chime in on whether it is actually ok to dryfire a modern center fire rifle? I myself have a Marlin 336...but I hear so man differing ideas on this...any real gun techs here who can answer?

And please, don't tell me about snap caps...Thanks!

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browningguy
November 14, 2009, 05:59 PM
If your (modern/post-war) rifle gets damaged by dry firing it's a poorly designed rifle and needed to get sold anyway.

Maverick223
November 14, 2009, 06:41 PM
Most modern rifles are safe to dry fire. The exceptions are most rimfire rifles and from what I have heard it is harmful to break action rifles.

:)

52grain
November 14, 2009, 07:18 PM
It's probably safe, but a set of snap caps would only cost about $10, why risk it?

cash05458
November 14, 2009, 07:30 PM
I do know about snap caps...come on now.:banghead:

I would just like to hear some opinions as to actual dry fire with a modern center fire rifle...

jmr40
November 14, 2009, 07:43 PM
My philosophy:

If I break it while dry firing it probably would have broken at about the same round count with live firing. The money I saved on ammo costs would buy several replacement rifles. Even if something does break it can be fixed and it is cheap practice. I have rifles over 35 years old that have been dry fired 10's of thousands of times. No problems yet.

Ignition Override
November 14, 2009, 09:24 PM
Several guys who are experienced with milsurps told me that the WW2 Lee-Enfield #4 and #5 are rugged enough to not suffer stress from a good bit of dry-firing.

Audie
November 14, 2009, 10:36 PM
Many rifles can be dry fired without any problem...the US army trained
with the M1 garand dry firing.

I have read that the most probable breakage would be the firing pin
tip....but I don't really understand why you would want to dry fire so
much....I do after a cleaning and reassembly maybe twice, then I run
a few snaps through the mag...and then off to the range.

Just don't do it 100 times a day.

It's like cleaning a rifle...people damage more guns by cleaning them
than firing them. Srubbing a rifle bore is not really necessary and can
actually hurt accuracy....A few passes with a good solvent and a few
dry patches, some FP10 in the action and in the bolt and that's about
good. I know friends who treat their guns like antique chinese vases...

it's a gun. Shoot it...if it breaks, send it to a GS and have it fixed....

Dry firing is ok a few times after a reassembly and cleaning and that
is all you need to do.

nalioth
November 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
Several guys who are experienced with milsurps told me that the WW2 Lee-Enfield #4 and #5 are rugged enough to not suffer stress from a good bit of dry-firing. Military rifles are specced to be able to withstand >∞ dry firing.

As has been stated, modern centerfires are fine to dry fire. If it keeps breaking firing pins, you probably want to think about why you own a substandard rifle.

benzy2
November 14, 2009, 10:42 PM
Many rifles can be dry fired without any problem...the US army trained
with the M1 garand dry firing.

I have read that the most probable breakage would be the firing pin
tip....but I don't really understand why you would want to dry fire so
much....I do after a cleaning and reassembly maybe twice, then I run
a few snaps through the mag...and then off to the range.

Just don't do it 100 times a day.

It's like cleaning a rifle...people damage more guns by cleaning them
than firing them. Srubbing a rifle bore is not really necessary and can
actually hurt accuracy....A few passes with a good solvent and a few
dry patches, some FP10 in the action and in the bolt and that's about
good. I know friends who treat their guns like antique chinese vases...

it's a gun. Shoot it...if it breaks, send it to a GS and have it fixed....

Dry firing is ok a few times after a reassembly and cleaning and that
is all you need to do. Trigger time is trigger time is trigger time. Most target shooters I know find dry firing to be of utmost importance. On a hunting rifle it may not mean much but if its something you are trying to shoot as accurate as possible the cost of a firing pin is minimal compared to the practice you gain from repeated dry firing. You have to be in full position and work on all parts of taking the shot for it to really show gains but I have found it very beneficial to work really learn each rifles trigger. I don't have access to range time as often as I would like so dry firing replaces live fire.

Balog
November 15, 2009, 12:09 AM
Have you thought of, you know, asking the manufacturer of your rifle? I believe you'll find most companies say it's a-ok. It should be noted that certain rimfire designs (CZ 452 springs to mind here) can safely be dry fired as well.

nulfisin
November 15, 2009, 12:36 AM
I do it all the time. The 336 trigger isn't the greatest. Before I take it out, I dry fire it at the TV, spots on the wall, anything not alive, etc. How else are you going to learn to shoot it?

I don't own a Ruger rifle, but the manual to the .22 single six pistol specifally states that it is safe to dry fire. There are other brands.

RP88
November 15, 2009, 01:05 AM
I dry-fire my main centerfires. Never had a problem. No burs, no worn pins, etc.

Sav .250
November 15, 2009, 08:58 AM
I don`t.......just a matter of principle.

Dulvarian
November 15, 2009, 09:01 PM
The dry firing vs not is one of the worst arguments between people that should likely know better.

This is no difference between people that hate vs people that swear by polymer frame pistols than people that do and don't dry fire. Blind acceptance, blind denial, and a strange mixture of fact and fiction.

The only way that you can really keep track of whether it helps or not, would be to keep your old targets (I use digital photos) and then track your progress. I personally found that my groups fell off when I stopped dry fire practice. But since I knew whether I had been keeping up with my drills, I didn't need to even look at the targets to know they had fallen off.

Maybe we could find a pair of comparable shooters and have them keep track of how long it takes to get to a certain level of proficiency ... Wait, it would still be all anecdotal, and no one would take it seriously. Just like so many people utterly refuse to have anything to do with polymer frame pistols.

tractorshaft
November 15, 2009, 11:30 PM
Dry firing is some of the most convenient, cheap and best trigger training (EG: Muscle Memory) that one can do.

I often keep either a Glock or Revolver on the coffee table. I use Snap caps in revolver for firing pin rebound , nothing needed for the autoloader. Its great fun to shoot people on the TV, especially on some the the channels my wife likes to watch, ha ha! :evil:

gutterman
November 16, 2009, 10:58 PM
dry fire to your hearts content-it won't hurt it.

cash05458
November 20, 2009, 03:34 PM
thanks all for taking the time to respond...helped alot....!

ny32182
November 20, 2009, 03:44 PM
I've never understood the concept that says that pulling the trigger on an empty chamber is somehow causing more stress and wear than pulling the trigger, and having a tens-of-thousands of PSI explosion subsequently occur. I'd really like to hear someone attempt to articulate HOW such a thing would actually occur.

cavman
November 20, 2009, 04:06 PM
Here are a couple of links that address the benefits for competitive shooters. They don't mention the 336 specifically, but certainly advocate dry firing as a good thing to do.

http://www.odcmp.org/1107/default.asp?page=USAMU_CONDITIONING

http://www.fulton-armory.com/dryfire.htm

Maverick223
November 20, 2009, 07:08 PM
I'd really like to hear someone attempt to articulate HOW such a thing would actually occur.Certain guns can peen and/or chip the firing pin, and damage the chamber, when the fining pin strikes the hardened steel chamber wall (on a rimfire).

:)

DaveShooter
November 20, 2009, 08:53 PM
Why in the sam heck would you want to do it on a 336 Marlin. It's a lever action.
On center fire pistols or rugers even smith's but not a 336 marlin. Take it out and shoot some ammo tou will feel how the trigger feels that way or like someone already has stated snap-caps.

Maverick223
November 20, 2009, 09:00 PM
Why in the sam heck would you want to do it on a 336 Marlin. It's a lever action.What does it being a lever action have to do with the price of soybeans? You need to practice with a lever just like a auto pistol, revolver, bolt gun, or semi. :confused:

earlthegoat2
November 20, 2009, 09:19 PM
I always answer these inquiries like this:

Dry firing doesnt hurt and neither do snap caps.

AKElroy
November 20, 2009, 09:36 PM
I was actually thankful to the guy that owned my new model 94 before me for getting plenty of dry fire practice. I picked it up in PERFECT condition for $100 even. Got it to the range, and found it falling silent half the time. Broken firing pin tip. $26 for a new one, I did the swap, and no more guilt that it was potentially hot at the low price.

They break. They can be fixed. Snap caps will not likely spare the FP, but they will keep the breech face from dimpling outward.

chevyforlife21
November 20, 2009, 09:45 PM
i dont think its a good idea or necessary so i dont but maybe once or twice if i had it apart. and not at all on rimfires

Guns and more
November 20, 2009, 11:03 PM
Dry fire to your heart's content.
Then IF it breaks, you'll know why so many people told you about........you know what.

DaveShooter
November 21, 2009, 12:46 PM
Because being a lever gun you can let down the hammer down just like on revolver etc!!!
You sure must need a lot of trigger practice by dry -firing a lever gun. You can feel how much pressure it will take by holding hammer with thumb pressure at same time pulling trigger. You sure are smacking the heck out of firing pin and the sudden stop of the hammer etc. Okay just head your car or truck into a brick wall just to see how it feels at 30 MPH. Sure Dosen't make sense does it. So why dry fire a lever gun?????

Maverick223
November 21, 2009, 01:09 PM
So why dry fire a lever gun?Again, for practice. I am not saying that I do it...but that is the answer.

:)

jmr40
November 21, 2009, 01:26 PM
So why do you think dry firing the lever gun is causing any more damage than live firing?

rbernie
November 21, 2009, 01:29 PM
So why do you think dry firing the lever gun is causing any more damage than live firing? In a loaded weapon, the firing pin has something to hit. In an empty weapon, it doesn't. Slamming the firing pin forward against its stop without benefit of hitting the primer cup to slow it down has been known to cause firing pin damage/breakage in many different types of firearms, 'modern' centerfire rifles included.

A wee bit of dry fire without snap caps isn't likely to cause much of an issue, but for prolonged practice you should always use snap-caps.

Snap caps are easy to make, if you don't wanna buy one - just goop a dollop of RTV sealer into the primer pocket of a spent shell (deprimed). As the RTV gets worn, pick it out and replace. The deprimed casing won't feed, so it won't let you verify the action after you've worked on it (the other purpose for snap caps - to act as dummy shells) but it will let you dry fire with impunity.

any real gun techs here who can answer?

And please, don't tell me about snap caps...Thanks! How can a 'real gun tech' answer the question if you refuse to listen to part of the answer?

That attitude just makes my head hurt.

<sigh>

jmr40
November 21, 2009, 01:50 PM
Heard that argument before. Have been dry firing too many guns for too many years with zero problems to buy it. There are some guns that should never be dry fired, but with the vast majority are not hurt at all. If in doubt find out. If snap caps ease your mind use them. I am of the opinion that if a gun breaks during a dry firing exercise it would have broken at the same round count of live firing. I am a much better shot for the practice.

DaveShooter
November 21, 2009, 02:50 PM
You do it your way I'll do it mine and we will all be happy!!!!! No Dry Fire for me!!!!!!

jmr40
November 21, 2009, 08:09 PM
And that is fine. But for any one undecided consider this. In 1974 I paid $175 for a new Remington 700 ADL that I still own and use. In the nearly 36 years I have owned the gun it has been dry fired at least 100,000 times with zero problems. That works out to about 7-8 times per day. That is the gun I have owned the longest, but all of my centerfires get dry fired 100's of times for each round actually fired through them.

It is great practice as well as a great way to smooth up an action and trigger. My old rifle may break tomorrow, but at todays prices it would have cost me $200,000 in ammo to have gotten that much trigger time, not to mention wearing out several barrels. I bought the gun to use. If it beaks I will repair or replace it. I have never seen any evidence that dry firing will wear out most centerfire guns any faster than live firing. There are exceptions, and you should be sure. There are some of my guns I rarely or never dry fire, because they are not designed for it.

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