running deer


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longspurr
November 15, 2009, 10:57 PM
A local range was having a deer sight in weekend. As part of that they had a Running Deer target. For those that wanted to try their hand at this it was a eye opener.

Range 70 yds., target speed approx 6 mph. This is a full sized broadside deer target . First run is right to left, 2nd run is left to right.
Some folks get off 3 shots, some only 1 shot. Talking to a range officer some interesting things come up. Of all the shots he saw 15-20% are vital zone hits. Twice this are hits somewhere on the deer. The rest are hits on target but not on the deer.

Popular rifles. Lever actions almost all Marlin. Said he only saw 1 Winchester. 30 30 most common. Bolt actions, Browning most common followed by Remington, followed by savage. Sprinkling of Wwll military rifles. More SKS.
Lots of Remington auto's & some pumps. Saw some others BAR, Remington mod 8.....

30 cal overwhelmingly most common.

Almost everyone fired offhand.

My take on this is almost NO ONE should shoot at a moving deer. Those of us on this board are hopefully excluded from this blanket recommendation.

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jbkebert
November 15, 2009, 11:22 PM
We have one of those targets at the archery range. Think they are hard to hit with a bullet. Try slinging a arrow from 20 yards. The place a pop tab on the vitals and have a competition every month. One dollar to shoot three arrows. The closest arrow to the pop tab get a gift certificate or some other prize worth about $50. It is alot of fun but pretty darn hard.

taliv
November 15, 2009, 11:28 PM
oh, it's worse than that... 6 mph is a slow jogging speed for a human... i.e. a 10 minute mile, more like a fast walk. "running" deer are way faster and unlike humans that keep their torso mostly stationary, deer tend to jump a lot which means you're likely off in two directions

i'm not much of a hunter, but i'd have to be pretty dang hungry to take a shot at a running deer

kis2
November 15, 2009, 11:31 PM
interesting. thanks for the results. sounds real challenging, and fun. still, there's a lot of variables at shooting a moving target (i mostly think 'whats behind it now?'). seems like it'd be hard to justify in the field.

anyone done this in actuality?

so do those percentages include the guys that got 30 rounds out their SKS's and only hit once? ;)

*edit to add* taliv: for some of us, a ten minute mile IS fast!

DennyF
November 15, 2009, 11:33 PM
Some can drop running deer with amazing regularity, most others just wound the deer, or miss entirely.

AKElroy
November 15, 2009, 11:39 PM
The best shot I ever made is also the worst shot I have ever taken. I had a nice, big-bodied cull spike jump up & run @ around 90 yrds full steam, got out to 120 or so when I succumbed to the goading & took the shot with a Model 94 .30-30.

The man I was with was yelling at me to "Shoot Shoot!"; It was his rifle that I asked to shoot; we were just burning trash during our hunt when the buck jumped up & ran. I let him pressure me into the shot; luckily it was right through the vitals & the buck went down in a heap.

When I was in the 5th grade, I was in LEFT FIELD, when a rare pop fly came my way. It hung long enough for every bully on my team to threaten my life if I dropped that final out. I was completely blinded by the sun, and NEVER saw that ball. It fell in my glove, proving their is a compassionate God. Same with that running shot. PURE LUCK or devine providence. I will not press that luck again---

Smokey Joe
November 16, 2009, 01:32 PM
I work @ my gun club's Hunter Sight-In Clinic, in the 50-yd running deer area.

My take on this is almost NO ONE should shoot at a moving deer. Those of us on this board are hopefully excluded from this blanket recommendation.We get HUNDREDS of shooters run through in 7 days. I would slightly disagree with the above quote, in that NO ONE should take a shot at an unwounded, running deer. I didn't keep statistics, but out of hundreds of shots flung at it, Running Plywood Bambi took maybe a couple of dozen fatal shots. The rest mostly missed entirely (thereby endangering whatever would be beyond the deer) or were gut-shots, rump nicks, leg wounds, etc, etc.

And as pointed out above, a REAL running deer bounces up and down, in addition to proceeding forward. Not to mention changing its direction of travel irregularly. An impossible target to properly aim at.

So I'll make the blanket recommendation: No ethical hunter, none, should shoot at an unwounded deer that is running. Kill it before it starts running, or Do The Right Thing, and let it go.

eastbank
November 16, 2009, 03:22 PM
had a brain freeze. eastbank.

eastbank
November 16, 2009, 03:24 PM
a deer running at 25mph will move close to 4.57 feet in the 1/8 second of reaction time(time it takes for the singinal to fire gets to the trigger). a bullet traveling at 2700-2800fps will go 337.5 feet in a 1/8 second. so it looks like you would have to lead about 9 feet for a 100yds shot (double the 1/8th second to 1/4 second) to hit the deer, but lead and follow thru will now enter into the mix(trap shooters shoot on a clay bird with out leading it but by useing follow thru. i once watched the running boar shoots,and the winner said he didn,t lead at all but followed thru with the running boar(he didn,t stop his rifle but shot when the sights were on the kill area and kept his rifle moving) i pratice in the summer shooting groundhogs on the run with a .22 mag from close to 100-125 yds and kill many with the first shot and i think it helps me on running deer. eastbank.

41magsnub
November 16, 2009, 03:48 PM
I know I'm not a good enough shot to nail a running deer, especially with a scope. The only time I've tried was when my (very young) hunting buddy tagged a deer in a front leg with a really bad shot and it was running past me with one leg cartwheeling around. I took 5 shots at it and the 5th dropped it with a marginal hit and I had to finish it off. I figured that was preferable to it running off and dieing slowly somewhere.

MT GUNNY
November 16, 2009, 05:17 PM
Tough but not Impossible. Especially when your thinking about it, like at a range. I took a really nice 5x5 Whitey a few years back with a 7mm rem mag. He was running about half speed across a open meadow. I was napping at the base of a tree when I awoke and he was half way across. I hit him in the lungs, he piled up just inside the tree line about 30 yards from when I Fired. He was about 50 yards+ out from me at the time of the shot. I also took a running coyote at 100 yards once, that was with a AR 15 w/ a Reddot . The first shot hit forward of him I adjusted and the second shot hit right behind his front shoulders. We all have had lucky shots I do believe these two are no different, If I was thinking about it before I shot I would not have made either shot!


109262

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 16, 2009, 06:04 PM
I work @ my gun club's Hunter Sight-In Clinic, in the 50-yd running deer area.


Quote:
My take on this is almost NO ONE should shoot at a moving deer. Those of us on this board are hopefully excluded from this blanket recommendation.

We get HUNDREDS of shooters run through in 7 days. I would slightly disagree with the above quote, in that NO ONE should take a shot at an unwounded, running deer. I didn't keep statistics, but out of hundreds of shots flung at it, Running Plywood Bambi took maybe a couple of dozen fatal shots. The rest mostly missed entirely (thereby endangering whatever would be beyond the deer) or were gut-shots, rump nicks, leg wounds, etc, etc.

And as pointed out above, a REAL running deer bounces up and down, in addition to proceeding forward. Not to mention changing its direction of travel irregularly. An impossible target to properly aim at.

So I'll make the blanket recommendation: No ethical hunter, none, should shoot at an unwounded deer that is running. Kill it before it starts running, or Do The Right Thing, and let it go.

Amen, bravo, kudos, and thank you, Smokey Joe, +10000000.

52grain
November 16, 2009, 08:07 PM
This sounds like a fun range game, but a real shot on a moving dear would be much, much more difficult.

longspurr
November 16, 2009, 08:47 PM
We know what happens when folks try to hit a plywood bambi. I wonder what the folks that tried - and missed several time -will do if the real situation pops up.

Will they remember they did poorly on a carefully set range, or will they think Hey I've seen this before, I just have to keep blasting?

Of the auto's that I saw used no one shot more than 3 times. One Remington was a jam-o-matic. Scoring the targets was done in a way that we had no idea which shot hit where. I heard a guy saying He was fairly certain of the first shot, but the next 2 were pretty hurried.

I'm sure if people got a chance to practise they would get much better. I wonder if a WII type game would help? A video game on the 52" screen with real guns would attract a lot of attention at my gun club.

HGUNHNTR
November 16, 2009, 09:41 PM
I shot a decent 5x5 Nebraska Whitetail in 2005 that was running full bore quartering away and smoked him. The only reason I shot is because I first missed broadside at about 75 yards :o and thought there was no was I could have missed him. I felt obligated to take a running shot at this "wounded" deer. Upon inpection of the carcass we found one wound created by a 165 grain ballistic tip. He was running across an alfalfa field, and when he was hit his head went down into the alfalfa, caught hold, and he literally flipped over.

Crazy hunt.

oneounceload
November 16, 2009, 09:51 PM
Something similar is mandatory to pass in Sweden to go big game hunting. If you cannot put your shots on target in the acceptable manner, you do not get to go hunting.

Dr.Rob
November 17, 2009, 12:56 AM
Isn't that the point of having a running deer target, to practice shooting at a moving target?

Not every shot is a perfect broadside. I'd say "never shoot at a flat out running antelope" as it's literally beyond most people's skill level to hit an animal that can run at 50-55 mph.

But NEVER at a moving target? Practice more with clay pigeons and open sights. A bounding, trotting deer is totally doable.

blackops
November 17, 2009, 04:06 AM
At the range it's great, but in reality taking a shot at an animal in a strut (to met) is wrong. Even though I know at 70yds and that speed I could hit the target most of the time I doubt It would be in the vitals every time. No need to make an animal suffer like that.

Yellowtail3
November 17, 2009, 07:30 AM
I've taken a shot at a 'running deer' - well, more of a canter - one time. Deer snuck up behind stand, and wouldn't walk past. I spent a several minutes waiting; when I finally turned my head, he exploded out of there (I think he was watching me). I upped my rifle (scoped 336) and grunted but he wouldn't stop... ran/kind of jogged into clear-cut perpendicular to me - I hesitated since I don't shoot them on the move, but then felt good, got sight picture, led slightly - BOOM! - deer kept going, now on afterburner - I shot three more times. Then saw deer fall in tangle of logging debris.

When I finally found him -that took a while - I'd hit him twice out of four: once in mid-ribcage, one shot nicked front of throat. Only the ribs was effective, he'd have easily survived the other. I think I prob got him on that first/best shot, and the other three were wasted, but I don't know.

generally, I don't shoot at running deer unless I've already shot at them, and then I don't usually have the presense of mind to keep shooting (just wait, they'll fall).

put me down as against it.

LiquidTension
November 17, 2009, 11:36 AM
A bounding, trotting deer is totally doable.

Not for me, so I won't do it. I think that's the biggest problem with shooting a moving target - a lot of people think they're better than they actually are.

oneounceload
November 17, 2009, 02:06 PM
I don't like it because then the meat tends to taste terrible.

Kernel
November 17, 2009, 02:17 PM
NEVER saw that ball. It fell in my glove
"You're killing me, Smalls." :)

cleetus03
November 17, 2009, 02:24 PM
My take on this is almost NO ONE should shoot at a moving deer.

^ I reckon you aint ever ran dogs before.....

Arkansas Paul
November 17, 2009, 03:03 PM
There are a few good snap shots out there. I've seen some who could consistently kill running game at close range. I'm talking about inside 50 yds here. No one has any business shooting at running game at long range. I would rate my marksmanship a little above average. I won't take the shot if it's running. This is why I despise the use of dogs when hunting deer. I think dogs should be used in the recovery of deer only. And before you flame me for that, don't. It's my opinion. I respect yours if you dissagree.

skiking
November 17, 2009, 03:04 PM
shooting at running targets isn't hard if you have practice. I shot 10 m competition running target in high school for a short stint and learned the basics doing so. After that hitting a running deer is a pretty easy thing to do. I have shot 3 animals that were running the first 2 were deer I double lunged both at about 80 yards, the third animal was 2 near perfect followup shots on an elk at 100 yds, and both landed within 2 inches of the first 2 shots(all 4 shots into the lungs).

If you know how to do it, it isn't that hard to hit a running target, but if you haven't done it before it can be close to impossible.

Shadow Man
November 17, 2009, 03:06 PM
I went to a range with one of my father's friends, and they had a similar set-up. I was using an old Stevens bolt action .30-30 with some old handloads. (by old, I mean 1960's old) Rules were 3 shots, and they would score your target and send a card back with your shots marked and scored. Best score won the pot, about $50. When my turn came, I stepped up to the line and squeezed off one shot. When I went to cycle the bolt, it failed to extract the empty brass. Turns out that the handload had swelled when I fired it, and was now firmly lodged in the chamber. When they returned the score card though, that one shot had made a perfect hole between the target deer's eyes. If I had gotten the next two shots off and hit the deer anywhere, I would have had the winning score. Alas, it did not work out that way, and an older gent won the pot using a Lee-Enfield in .303.

Two valuable lessons were learned though: A; don't use those handloads, and B; since that shot was pure luck, I should probably not take a shot at a running deer. Coincidentaly, that was the last season I went hunting...just doesn't appeal to me anymore, for a variety of reasons.

MT GUNNY
November 17, 2009, 04:01 PM
When a Home invader is running towards your wife you should not Fire! Its Unethical, you might only wound him.










I'm sorry I just had to..:D

Mr. T
November 17, 2009, 04:54 PM
I'm sorry, but for those people who only pick up their weapons once a year without much shooting experience through the year....yeah I suppose you shouldn't try to shoot a moving deer. Here's another thought -- if you don't shoot at them you surely won't hit them. I have been shooting running deer since I've been twelve. I shot five deer last year out of the six that I saw...they were all running...full speed not 6 miles per hour...full speed. It can be done very effectively if you have practice. In my deer hunting group, we drive deer, so they're all running. Too many people out there are watching too much TV programs about hunting. In 30 years of hunting I've lost (1) deer out of 90 to 100+. I'm not bragging, because all the hunters in my group can do pretty much the same thing when it's their turn to stand. Some deer get shot on the drive by drivers, but for the most part the standers get the majority of the shooting and the deer are running. The reason the TV shows show you that the hunter waits until the deer has stopped moving is because they don't want to give PETA anything to bitch about. However with practice, there's no reason a running deer can't be shot just as ethically as one standing perfectly still.:cool:

All4eyes
November 17, 2009, 05:12 PM
I would like to see the "I will not shoot at a running deer," crowd hunt the flat land of ND. You will never get a shot. Shooting at a running animal takes practice, just as hitting a standing deer at 500+ yds. I practice on running animals here, fox, coyote, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, and partridge are all part of the mix. All you need is practice, and it can be done. On a side note how many rounds do you "standing deer only" shooters shoot before you head out for the season. Me I shoot a couple of thousand between the .22 and the highpowers.

lobo9er
November 17, 2009, 05:15 PM
Me I shoot a couple of thousand between the .22 and the highpowers
if you got the money to burn depending on the 22 to high power ratio.

All4eyes
November 17, 2009, 05:23 PM
Handloading is your friend here. I try to shoot 500 .22 rounds a week, to keep in practice for winter league. Around 50 to 100 through the highpowers for fall, and wat to many through the scattergun for upland. Yes, I do miss, but only when I miss.

niteowl
November 17, 2009, 05:24 PM
I would like to see the "I will not shoot at a running deer," crowd hunt the flat land of ND. You will never get a shot. Shooting at a running animal takes practice, just as hitting a standing deer at 500+ yds. I practice on running animals here, fox, coyote, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, and partridge are all part of the mix. All you need is practice, and it can be done. On a side note how many rounds do you "standing deer only" shooters shoot before you head out for the season. Me I shoot a couple of thousand between the .22 and the highpowers.

amen.

Too many people out there are watching too much TV programs about hunting. In 30 years of hunting I've lost (1) deer out of 90 to 100+. I'm not bragging, because all the hunters in my group can do pretty much the same thing when it's their turn to stand. Some deer get shot on the drive by drivers, but for the most part the standers get the majority of the shooting and the deer are running. The reason the TV shows show you that the hunter waits until the deer has stopped moving is because they don't want to give PETA anything to bitch about. However with practice, there's no reason a running deer can't be shot just as ethically as one standing perfectly still.

exactly. if we all hunted like the outdoor TV shows on Sunday morning, we'd all be driving Chevrolets, be dressed up in RealTree camo, and shooting Thompson Center rifles....

ColeK
November 17, 2009, 09:29 PM
Apparently very few of you have hunted game with dogs. All shots are running.

I was started on small game at an early age and moved up. It's not hard once you have learned how.

The problem most hunters have is that most haven't hunted small running game with a .22.

rizbunk77
November 17, 2009, 09:46 PM
I say it depends on how hungry your family is for the meat.

Double Naught Spy
November 20, 2009, 07:56 AM
Moving targets are tough. That is part of the reason why I regularly train with them. However, I don't believe in taking unnecessary shots.

My first hog was taken as it ran, but it was only at 25 yards (close) and I was using a rested .45-70 with a red dot and I tracked it before pulling the trigger. DRT.

rbernie
November 20, 2009, 08:03 AM
A bounding, trotting deer is totally doable.
Absolutely, especially if you have the time to get into some form of supported field-expedient position (e.g. kneeling) and even moreso if you get the time to 'swing'.

I say it depends on how hungry your family is for the meat. My taking a shot at moving game is not driven by hunger - it's driven by a confidence in my ability to make the shot. If I'm not confident - I don't pull The Bang Switch. If I am confident that it's gonna be a killing shot, then I shoot.

Simple, really.

Offfhand
November 20, 2009, 10:58 AM
I have hunted big game in Finland and three times in Sweden and each time I had to pass a shooting test to get a hunting permit. The target was a running moose target at 100 meters and after a few practice shots my hunting pals and I were consistently putting our shots in the target's kill zone. Another time, on a driven game hunt in Eastern Europe, our hunting party bagged several Europen boar and all were running shots. European hunters, I have found, tend to be excellent marksmen at running game because they practice on running targets and expect most of their shots at live game to be moving if not running flat out. I'm confident that if American hunters practiced on running targets they would be every bit as skilled as the Europeans. But having said that, I do not think it would be a good thing if Americans were required to pass a running dear test, or any other form of marksmanship test, in order to get a hunting license. Hunting is a basic American freedom and we should remain free to hit, or miss, a deer in any safe way we choose without having someone else's sense of sportsmanship imposed upon us.

blackops
November 27, 2009, 02:23 AM
It all depends on your respect for the animal and how experienced of a shot you are. I’m not the best shot nor am I the worst, but I think a shot on a moving deer is more of a desperation/happy trigger finger deal. It’s tough for hunters that have game within range to not pull the trigger at least once and I understand that side of the argument. I myself don’t feel that I am good enough to clip the vitals on a moving deer at 200yds. I also believe that many hunters who think they are simply aren’t. How many hunters that take moving shots actually practice it? I highly doubt many.

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