Identify these bullets please


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drumz2129
November 17, 2009, 10:23 AM
My boss gave me some old 38spl and 357mag reloading supplies that he found in an old storage building. There were about 500 nickel plated once fired 38spl cases, all Western brand and in original boxes; 200 357mag nickel plated once fired cases, and about 500 of these bullets. The base is marked '357' and they weigh 158grn.

Question 1: They are a semi wad cutter hollow point, but they have a tall copper base, I would say too tall to be called a gas check. Would I use lead loading data or jacketed? The bearing surface that engages the rifling is split about 50/50 between lead and jacket

Question 2: About 100 of the 357mag cases have been re-primed. I'm not sure if they have been resized. I have no idea the age of the primers or the condition they were stored in. Would it be best to snap all the primers then decap them or is it safe to use them?

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/drumz2129/Shooting%20Stuff/PIC-0155.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/drumz2129/Shooting%20Stuff/PIC-0156.jpg

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Bwana John
November 17, 2009, 11:05 AM
Ive got halve a box of the same projectiles in the shed Ill dig out, I think their still in their original box.

NCsmitty
November 17, 2009, 11:11 AM
More than likely, the half-jacket bullets are Speer, and I don't think they are made anymore.

The primed brass that you have should be ok to use. Try running 1 through the die and see if they need sizing. Usually you can raise the decapping pin up enough to avoid popping the primer out.
Load 5 or 10 of the primed cases and try them for function before loading the whole bunch.
The components may be old but should work fine.


NCsmitty

drumz2129
November 17, 2009, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the quick responses. Since they are half jacketed, does that mean i can use jacketed load data without worrying about leading up the barrel?

Jim Watson
November 17, 2009, 11:36 AM
Bullets look like Hornady SJ (Short Jacket) design out of the 1960s, but there were other similar brands. Speers had 7/8 jackets and did not have lead against the bore in my earliest (1964) listing. I would treat them like plated - low end jacketed, medium cast load levels.

The primers are probably ok, as said, load some and see if they shoot.

drumz2129
November 17, 2009, 03:41 PM
Thanks Jim, I did a google search for hornady SJ and found some .30 cal round nose rifle bullets that look to be of similar construction. I havnt been able to find any SJSWC, but I believe you are correct.

Doug b
November 17, 2009, 03:57 PM
IIRC there were issues with down loading half jacket bullets were the jacket would seperate from the lead core leaving the jacket stuck in the barrel.So please be advised.

drumz2129
November 17, 2009, 04:12 PM
Doug, I read some archived post on the same thing. I definately will not be down loading these bullets, I enjoy shooting heavier loads.

rcmodel
November 17, 2009, 04:19 PM
+1 to not down-loading.

Speer #10 has load data for half-jacket 160's, and they specifically warn not to go below the recommended starting loads listed.

That appears to be a minimum of 860 - 900 FPS in .38 Special.
In the .357 Mag they are driving them to 1,350 FPS.

PS: Those bullets you have could also be old Herters stock.
They made them too.

rc

Steve Marshall
November 17, 2009, 06:50 PM
They are not the Speers I used in the early 80's. The fact that they are marked as .357 tends to point to a home swager or custom bullet maker. I would load a few of the primed cases and if they work, which they should, just treat them as primed brass. With one proviso, however. The .357 came out in the 30's- think corrosive priner possibility.

drumz2129
November 18, 2009, 09:58 AM
The .357 came out in the 30's- think corrosive primer possibility.

Ill keep that in mind. I doubt these cases are any older than early 60s. The box of stuff he gave me had loaded Garand stripper clips with LC52 head stamps, Several boxes of .30 LC match ammo with 1964 printed on the boxes, and 10 boxes that look like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145998031 (I have not been able to put a date on them) They are filled with nickel plated western brand .38spl cases. If any one recognizes the boxes and knows when they were produced, I may be able to date the other components.

MichaelK
November 18, 2009, 06:28 PM
HI Drum
You have half-jacketed bullets that were likely to have been made by a home bullet maker as far back as the 60's. From you pic, I'm guessing it was made on a CH Swag-o-matic press. Here's a pic of a swaged lead hollowpoint that I made with a Swag-o-matic from a cast and lubed Lyman 358477 and 358495 bullets. See the similarities.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/swagingcastbullets.jpg
Use jacketed bullet data for reloading, but I would load them in 38 special cases and not faster .357's. The soft lead swage core most likely will lead rather badly at max .357 velocities.

I would take your primed .357 brass and load up some light loads with your half-jacket bullets. Then go snap them off at the range.

drumz2129
November 20, 2009, 06:17 AM
Thanks for the info Michael, thats what i plan to do this weekend. (minus the light load part)

rcmodel
November 20, 2009, 01:42 PM
Well, so much for the Do Not Download them advice earlier.

You do run the risk of a core squrting out of the half-jacket and leaving the jacket stuck in the bore with light loads.

Be advised.

rc

Afy
November 20, 2009, 02:38 PM
I have seen simillar bullets here in France... demi-blindee

Doug b
November 20, 2009, 07:20 PM
Yep rc what might work in one revolver could have a separation in another.It is very dependent on the amount of cylinder gap.But then Drum did say he was going to step on the gas.

Jim Watson
November 20, 2009, 07:23 PM
RC is correct, I saw a light load "squirt" a JSP core one time, leave the jacket in the barrel, which bulged at the next shot. Nobody thought to stop and look because the core actually hit the target.

drumz2129
November 21, 2009, 10:49 AM
Well, so much for the Do Not Download them advice earlier.

You do run the risk of a core squrting out of the half-jacket and leaving the jacket stuck in the bore with light loads.

Be advised.

rc

rc, I fixed my previous post... I missed the part about the light loads in the last sentence. I have NO intentions (and had none before I knew about the seperation possibility) to make light loads with these bullets. The 6" full lug GP100 is heavy enough to shoot full power loads and remain comfortable to me.

Offfhand
November 21, 2009, 11:28 AM
I agree that the bullets appear to have been hand made in C-H swaging dies. I still have some Speer copper jackets with which I made similiar bullets about 200 years ago.

Sport45
November 21, 2009, 01:08 PM
Would it be best to snap all the primers then decap them or is it safe to use them?

If you snap them in a revolver be ready to use a wooden mallet or a sharp blow with the heel of your hand to open the cylinder after each shot. The primers my back out and tie up the gun.

I'd load them as other's have mentioned. Just don't use a powder that requires a magnum primer (W296/H110) since you don't know what kind of primer was installed. Instead load with a faster powder like HP38/W231, Titegroup, Unique, etc. Just stay a grain or so away from max loads until you've shot those primers.

drumz2129
November 21, 2009, 10:06 PM
If you snap them in a revolver be ready to use a wooden mallet or a sharp blow with the heel of your hand to open the cylinder after each shot. The primers my back out and tie up the gun.

I'd load them as other's have mentioned. Just don't use a powder that requires a magnum primer (W296/H110) since you don't know what kind of primer was installed. Instead load with a faster powder like HP38/W231, Titegroup, Unique, etc. Just stay a grain or so away from max loads until you've shot those primers.

I picked up some 158grn win JHP today. I will use those with some Tightgroup or Universal to use up the primed cases (only 50) and treat them as SP primers. I will save the half jacketed bullets for use with heavier loads with HS-6 and SPM primers that way wont run the risk of sticking the half jacket.

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