Looking for an Inexpensive...


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jwalker497
November 18, 2009, 12:00 AM
Tactical style Semi Auto Rifle for Range and Home Defense chambered in 5.56/.223 that can be had for under $1K. I don't really know what my options are other than the AR15. I saw the Mini 14, but I wouldn't consider it tactical. Are there any other rifles worth considering in my budget??? I do want it to be able to shoot both 5.56 and .223. Thanks in advance.

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surjimmy
November 18, 2009, 12:31 AM
I just bought a new Rock River Entry Tactical at the gun show from a dealer for $925 out the door. The AR's are going down in price all the time. If u don't want a AR u might check out Sagia(spelling)but I know nothing of them.

Maverick223
November 18, 2009, 01:02 AM
It may not look "tactical" or shoot .223/5.56, but I feel that the M1 Carbine is superior to most other rifles in a home defense role. It points well, is lightweight, is relatively short, and has pretty decent sights, making it very quick (at least in my hands). It is also fun to shoot, and ammo doesn't cost a fortune (about $0.40/rnd), making it a good range rifle. Assuming that you are intent on a .223/5.56 (nothing wrong with that), I would consider the Mini-14 a close runner up, as it has most of the characteristics that I favor in the Carbine. That said my home defense long gun is a Saiga-12 shotgun, with the M1 Carbine sitting in reserve.

:)

armoredman
November 18, 2009, 01:29 AM
If you don't want a Mini14 or AR-15, there are still a lot of options. Even the venerable vz-58 is coming out in .223 in December, with a 22lr conversion kit early next year. OTOH, wasn't there a company doing "bargain bin" ARs for $500 or so, nothing fancy but works well type of rifles?

C-grunt
November 18, 2009, 01:41 AM
You can get AKs in 5.56 pretty easy. Saigas are supposed to be great rifles and are about half your budget. Im an AR guy myself and you can get a nice AR for under a grand without much difficulty. Mini 14 is a good rifle as well.

Nick5182
November 18, 2009, 01:47 AM
Century International Arms also makes an AK variant in .223 and those run about 500-600 bucks...but then again, they also make a CETME in .308 for around the same price (cheaper than dirt sells German HK g3 20 round mags for 99 cents each)...and personally that's what I'd go with.

Dookie
November 18, 2009, 02:01 AM
What do you mean by tactical? The mini does exactly the same thing as an AR, EXACTLY the same thing, it is a semi auto, detachable magazine, 223 or variant, can have dozens of different configurations including pistol grip, adjustable stock, quad rails.

In fact, if I had to choose I would recommend the Mini. They are incredibly rugged, known for reliability, but then, look at what design they are based from. They are not know for being highly accurate, but they take the usual Ruger mentality, make it work, make it tough, and then worry about accuracy.

But there are so many options available don't limit yourself. Try them all.

scorpiostang
November 18, 2009, 01:00 PM
can't comment on quality as I never shot either of them but the c93 and century galil fall in your price range and look tactical and diffrent (to me at least)

MichaelK
November 18, 2009, 01:44 PM
One option is Kel-Tec's SU16 rifle. Might be a good back of the truck gun with it's folding stock. I've only handled one, but my local gun shop has them on sale this week for 650$. That gives you an extra 300 for ammo, mags, and optics.

Avenger29
November 18, 2009, 03:12 PM
Saiga Rifle with a Magnoila State Arms adapter to AR-15 magazines.

http://magnoliastatearmory.com/products-page/magnoliastatearmory/

An AR-15 that you can bet your life on is available under $1K. The best option for your situation is a S&W AR-15 from CDNN Investments for their deal, it comes with 5 PMAGs, too. That's a phenomenal deal. Don't get the versions with the cheap rail and reddot sight, save for quality items in those departments.


Don't forget for HD you need a white light and preferably a quality red dot (Aimpoint, find used since you are on a budget).

Frankl03
November 18, 2009, 04:32 PM
+1 M&P 15 from CDNN and get 5 free pmags. Great deal on a quality Ar. I just bought one myself. Great rifle very good deal. Also I see the same rifle (optic ready flat top) on Gun broker in the mid $700s.

TXHORNS
November 18, 2009, 05:11 PM
If you want a "tactical" 5.56 then you really only have one choice. Get an AR from one of the many respected brands out there that all have plenty to offer with different options well within your price range. RRA, DPMS, Colt, Bushmaster, S&W, Stag,.... IN NO ORDER (lets not start that up).

I prefer carbine length, lightweight government profile barrel, with a flat top for eotech, acog, or scope and BUIS of course.

If you get over the tactical bug then the mini-14 is awesome. I like those like I like an M1A, nothing on it, iron sights. You can dress them up too but in my opinion it looks silly and takes away from what I like about the mini - simplicity, rugerness (read ruggedness) and great irons. Its a ranch rifle people, wood is good!

Saiga's are sweet too, but I like 7.62x39 for my AK variants and have no experience with 223 Saigas, although I would expect they are good too.

ccsniper
November 18, 2009, 05:19 PM
I really do hate that word "tactical". I personally think you should go with a saiga in 5.56 and convert.

ccsniper
November 18, 2009, 05:21 PM
+1 on m1 carbine

c919
November 18, 2009, 05:49 PM
oops double

c919
November 18, 2009, 05:54 PM
+1
S&W M&P15's can be had for $799 new w/5 Pmags right now.

I just bought a new MP15X with an Eotech and 7 Pmags for $1300. Although I spend a good deal more to get my AR just how I wanted it, the M&P15X w/5 Pmags can be had for $899 right now. I would advise going with the 15X if you are going to want any mounted accessories.

content
November 18, 2009, 06:55 PM
Hello friends and neighbors// JD0608 has a good deal on Rock River Arms CAR15

At least it seems good to me, check the for sale section and search for AR15.
Good luck

War Squirrel
November 18, 2009, 09:37 PM
If you want inexpensive, you can't go wrong with a Model 1 kit. Put it together yourself, and it's already headspaced, so no hassle with that truck. Seems like a good deal to me. Some surplus parts, etc... but it leaves you enough for decent optics afterward completion.
I'm eyeing the 24 incher. (no homo)
http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KSE240&storeid=1&image=s24prek.gif&CFID=56769736&CFTOKEN=28877565

That with a cheap lower and you're good to go. ;)

Shadow 7D
November 20, 2009, 05:11 AM
Siaga, $300 for a brand new AK, most any cal you care to shoot.

MarineOne
November 20, 2009, 06:19 AM
M-1 Carbine or an M4-gery from CDNN.

I picked up a Plainfield M-1 Carbine for $525 last year. I wasn't looking for a true service weapon from the period, as this was more as a camping rifle/HD weapon for my wife and eventually my kids.

CDNN was selling CMMG rifles for $899 not too long ago, and they always have some great deals, so its really to your benefit to check them out as soon as possible.



Kris

frankiestoys
November 20, 2009, 08:54 AM
I own a 580 seriies mini 14 i wouldn't call it tactical but i also wouldn't feel unarmed with it.
I am also considering an AR to add to my collection that would fit into the tactical group.
The Saiga looks like a cool rifle, price wise it's the least expensive of the three i mentioned .
Thats my 2 cents.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 20, 2009, 09:14 AM
+1 M&P 15 from CDNN and get 5 free pmags. Great deal on a quality Ar.

Amen, brother - that's a good deal on a great rifle. Sounds like the way to go here.

rangerruck
November 20, 2009, 11:19 AM
Saiga, then m-1, then the best deal in ar's right now, is the dpms ' sportical' , flat top , 16 inch bbl, lighweight pencil bbl. all for 700 bucks, or less. A great deal, in a very handy and light rifle.

greyling22
November 20, 2009, 01:40 PM
cmmg bargain bin AR. $600 m4 configuration. technically they are scratch and dent AR's, but the people who get them say they struggle to find the scratch or the dent.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=161

Afy
November 20, 2009, 01:46 PM
1. Why 'tactical'
2. Why 5.56/.223

Home defense.. you need a 12 ga. Look at a Saiga 12, pretty effective at putting up a wall of lead in a hurry.

Avenger29
November 20, 2009, 01:53 PM
2. Why 5.56/.223

.223/5.56 is one of the best HD rifle rounds when you look at effectivness vs. overpenetration. It doesn't have the tendancy to go through walls as bad.

.223/5.56 weapons also have very low recoil, so anyone in the house should be able to use it in that respect. A good AR with a collapsible stock will also allow easy and quick length adjustment for any user, and one built with a bit of attention to lightness can also be easier for all household members to use. It has a nice 30 round magazine that can be changed very quickly vs. loading a 12 gauge (at least the Saiga has a detachable box mag) as most using a 12 gauge shotgun for HD go with a tube magazine, pump action shotgun.

Everybody in my family, using my AR with a RDS, gets fast, effective hits on targets, and they do much better than with a 12 guage shotgun.


I used to be a 12 gauge shotgun is the only way to go for HD guy until I got some rounds through an AR-15.

Afy
November 20, 2009, 02:46 PM
Yup... no arguments other than the fact that the 5.56 is ineffective as a combat round.

Avenger29
November 20, 2009, 02:48 PM
Yup... no arguments other than the fact that the 5.56 is ineffective as a combat round.

I'm afraid you are wrong on that point.

kwelz
November 20, 2009, 03:26 PM
Yup... no arguments other than the fact that the 5.56 is ineffective as a combat round.

Wrong, wrong, and well.. Wrong.

5.56 has proven itself to be quite an effective combat round in fact. While the are indeed some situations when other bullets perform better there is nothing wrong with it for your average rifleman.

It is also a great home defense round. I recently sold my HD shotgun and use one of my ARs instead. It wont' over penetrate, allows for quick followups and is quite accurate.

Avenger29
November 20, 2009, 03:34 PM
It is also a great home defense round. I recently sold my HD shotgun and use one of my ARs instead. It wont' over penetrate, allows for quick followups and is quite accurate.

The only reason I still have a shotgun is to take advantage of the availability and versatility of 12 gauge shotgun ammunition and to have the ability to safely (in regards to backstop issues) knock anything out of a tree I need to.

Mr. T
November 20, 2009, 03:49 PM
Bushmaster chambers all of their AR-15's in 5.56 so that the rifle can fire either round without concern. They stamp it right on their barrels:
[5.56 NATO]

I bought my "Patrolman's Carbine" a couple years ago for $799 at a Gander Mountain; it's basically a 16" M4. It's a great gun; I would recommend checking them out.

zhyla
November 20, 2009, 04:35 PM
.223/5.56 is one of the best HD rifle rounds when you look at effectivness vs. overpenetration. It doesn't have the tendancy to go through walls as bad.

Really? How many walls do you have in your house? Cause a .223 will go thru all of them. So will any other military rifle round. So will buckshot. Just because one round will go thru 10 layers of drywall and another will go thru 8 layer doesn't mean the 2nd round has lower wall penetration. They all have 100% wall penetration.

.223 is a fine anti-human round, just make sure there are no friendlies behind your target (walls or no walls). Same goes for pretty much any handgun/rifle round.

Avenger29
November 20, 2009, 04:43 PM
I said "as bad". I am fully aware that .223 has 100% wall penetration. I am not suggesting that you shoot at someone without regard to your backstop. I am not suggesting that a couple of layers of drywall will instantly stop .223.

Some interesting reading on this subject.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=210739

Maverick223
November 20, 2009, 05:53 PM
Yup... no arguments other than the fact that the 5.56 is ineffective as a combat round.I disagree. That said, I prefer a larger projectile (more likely to hit something important), and therefore keep the .223/5.56 in reserve. That is not to say that it is a poor choice, and certainly not to say that it is not lethal...I simply believe that a larger bullet (like the low-recoil .30 Carbine round, or preferably 12Ga. No. 1 Buckshot) will have a greater chance of incapacitating an intruder more quickly.

:)

c919
November 20, 2009, 06:08 PM
Well, here it goes. The old .223 home defense & overpenetration battle.

Can't we all agree that:

A. It's is fairly likely that a .223 round of almost any sort is decently likely penetrate a wall or two.

B. It is fairly unlikely that it will go far enough to end up in your neighbor's house (assuming you don't live in a condo or apt) after penetrating said walls.

So....

Practice rule #4. Know what is behind your target and don't shoot at a BG if he is between you and your child's room.

I think the biggest consideration for using .223/5.56 as an HD round should be the layout of one's house. Some houses are set up in a way that overpenetration would not be a danger to loved ones, others are not. It is something that should be evaluated before deciding to use a rifle of this sort for HD.

Now let's not hijack the OP's thread...

jeepguy
November 20, 2009, 06:36 PM
i have mini 14 ss ranch 580 m1 carbine & bushmaster ar15 a3 m4. the bushy very accurate. m1 carbine shoots good & you own a piece of history. mini is my favorite by far. plenty of ammo choices between 223 & 5.56 not as accurate as my ar but close enough for me. i would go mini 14 w the fh & fancy wood stock its a davidsons exclusive. good luck

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