[50 Freak]

I just don't understand. Everyone here knows the story of Jessica Lynch and how she actually didn't fight against her Iraqi attackers, and that she was just captured without a firing a round. ""I did not shoot, not a round, nothing. ... I went down praying to my knees. And that's the last I remember. - Lynch"

She was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Prisoner of War medals while still in the hospital in Washington, D.C.

Private Miller who was in the same convey fought off the Iraqi attackers used a single shot AR (it was jammed and had to be cycled manually to fire). He killed at least 7 Iraqi's while defending his comrades.

"'Get down, Miller! Get down! You're going to get hit!'" said another soldier, Spc. Edgar Hernandez, describing how Miller charged toward the Iraqis. Hernandez recalled hearing automatic fire from Iraqi AK-47s and the single shots of Miller's M-16 rifle."

While being interogated , Miller prevented the Iraqis from getting sensitive information by telling them it was part numbers for a car.

Miller for his heroics received the Prisoner of War Medal. Purple Heart. Silver Star.

Don't you think its freaking unfair that Miller is working in a low paying job as a mechanic while Lynch sold her story and probably got millions? And Lynch received pretty much the same medals for practically doing nothing. I'm not critizing Lynch or anything as she doesn't have a hand the outcome, but the the whole damn situation just bugs the hell out of me.

[Chipperman]

Lynch's story sells, Miller's does not.
Unfair, Yes. Surprising, No.

[spacemanspiff]

have you considered that women in todays military are rarely in the spotlight? all of their actions are openly criticized by those who feel that women shouldnt be allowed to volunteer to serve their country.

Miller did his duty as was expected. do all combat veterans get million dollar book deals? or do they find themselves going back to life as they knew it, or more specifically, they TRY to go back to life as they knew it before going to combat.

[blades67]

She didn't earn that Bronze, that was tossed in to sell the war in Iraq to the sheeple.:barf:

[RSKING45]

Didnt even fire a round,Sounds like she put other solders at risk by going to her knees to pray,she let everone around her down,does this warrent a medal--HELL NO and sure as hell not a book by a coward :banghead: She doesnt deserve the attention that she is getting. This is a slap in the face to the solders that have fought and died over there. Its more political B.S

[Autolite]

In the story I read, Lynch said her "gun jammed". Did anyone else read that ???

[RVSinOK]

Got to agree here. Was it a bad ordeal that she went through? Yes.

Should we feel "sorry" for her because she was raped and beaten by her captors? Probably so.

Is she a "hero" because she did what is expected of every soldier and happened to get injured in the process? HELL NO!!! :mad:

The ONLY reason she is getting so much attention and $$$ for the book deals, etc. is because of marketing. If it was a male soldier that experienced exactly what she did, would he be considered a "hero"? I think not. He may be duly mentioned for what he went through (MAYBE!), and given the Purple Heart for his injuries, but that would be about it.

Don't get me wrong - I have absolutely no prejudice against female soldiers, and am glad to see more of them in the military. What I object to is any soldier getting so much attention, fame, and money for just doing what they signed up to do, simply because they are a woman! I think there are enough REAL heros in the military that are getting none of this publicity, because they are "just doing their jobs". What the hell was SHE doing?

Flame away if you will, but that's my opinion. :fire:

[gtd]

:cuss: What the **** is wrong with you people??? :cuss:

She did not ask for -- nor did she have any control over -- what happened to her before or after her capture. She was in a combat situation (in a volunteer military), taken prisoner, and who knows what else. All we know is that she was beaten close to death and maybe more.

You're criticizing her for receiving awards for her conduct? A purple heart? Good Lord!!!

If you don't like it, all you have to do is become one of the Joint Chiefs and you can decide what is good for your troops and for the military in general. Until you accomplish that, back off.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cuss:

[roscoe]

You guys might want to pay attention to what she said: she was not a hero, and was embarassed by the attention and by the fact that the pentagon manipulated the story for PR.

Don't blame her, she didn't award herself the medal. Blame the pentagon for fudging the story for propaganda value.

From what I can tell she wrote the book to set the record straight. It certainly does not portray her as anything special.

[Lancel]

And Lynch received pretty much the same medals for practically doing nothing.
The silver star is in no way "pretty much the same" as a bronze star. The silver star far eclipses the bronze star.

As far as other rewards, sometimes folks just win in life's lottery.

The media feeds on victims as much as heros, sometimes the two get confused.

Larry

[4v50 Gary]

Comes with the territory. What do you expect from the media dogs?

[Nightcrawler]

Should we feel "sorry" for her because she was raped and beaten by her captors? Probably so.

Probably? If you're unable to sympathize with a young woman who is being beaten, raped, and having bones broken, there's something very wrong with you.

Have we come so far that simple human decency has gone by the wayside?

And all of us who were sitting here in front of our computers while this was going on...perhaps we should reserve final judement until all the facts get straightened out? There's still a lot of disagreement and confusion over exactly how events went down.

A little early to be branding anyone a coward, wouldn't you say? Of course, it's always easy to point fingers, call names, and say what SHOULD'VE happened when you weren't there.

And, as has been said, the media attention is NOT Lynch's fault. She's repeatedly said she doesn't think she deserves to be called a hero, but no one listens; apparently not even High Roaders.

As for the book deal...hell, if I were in her place, I'd do the same.

[Gewehr98]

Gray "Soon-to-be-Unemployed" Davis got one just for showing up. :(

And the Silver Star is an order of magnitude higher in precedence than a Bronze Star, btw.

Those who don't like Pvt. Lynch's medal are more than welcome to volunteer and pick up where her unit left off. If the military ain't your thing, go ahead and open a Harley-Davidson dealership in Tikrit.

[semf]

I'm about 5th generation Army, But I lost most of the respect I had for it when they adopted the black beret for all troops, because some non combat general saw a Ranger formation and thought they looked neat, with no consideration for the hardships that true Rangers went threw to earn that hat.

This kinda thing does not surprise me it's all about appearances these days. No Jessica does not deserve to be villified for her actions but neither does she deserve to be diefied. If she in fact is trying to set the record straight, then she has earned some respect. It's hard to stand up a say "I'm not a hero who performed bravely in the face of certain death, I was just a scared little girl out of my element". I would like to see her identify,publicly, the men and women who do deserve the praise.


If she and Miller were in the same unit with the same training why did Miller simply do what was expected of him, but Jessica is a hero for being a victim. I think America needed a hero to get behind and this story simply sells.

[Langenator]

Semf-

I'm in the Army and I don't like the black beret for everyone decision either, but you really shouldn't call Gen Shinseki a "non-combat general". Armored Cav officer, 2 tours in Vietnam, 3 Bronze Stars, 3 Purple Hearts.

[Hot brass]

Female, story that will sell to the American people.

[Mark Tyson]

Given the way we demonize domestic guns used in crime, why don't they give her M16 a bronze star instead.

[Deep Blue]

In the story I read, Lynch said her "gun jammed". Did anyone else read that ???

The story I read quoted her as saying she never fired a shot, because her gun jammed. How does an M-16 jam if its never been fired? If there is a round in the chamber, what could possibly prevent it from firing. I know the M-16 has trouble with sand, but come on!

[Jeeper]

I have a lot less problems with her publicity than I do with elizabeth smart. the way that her parents are pimping her out to tv shows is completely ridiculous.:cuss:

[Dorian]

Don't you think its freaking unfair that Miller is working in a low paying job as a mechanic while Lynch sold her story and probably got millions? And Lynch received pretty much the same medals for practically doing nothing. I'm not critizing Lynch or anything as she doesn't have a hand the outcome, but the the whole damn situation just bugs the hell out of me.


Someone has already said this.... but bronze star and silver star are nowhere near the same medal.

If I had the choice between a bronze star and one million dollars, and a silver star...

I would choose the silver star in a heartbeat. Every time. Bar none.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-9. Silver Star
a. The Silver Star, section 3746, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3746), was established by Act of Congress 9 July 1918 (amended by act of 25 July 1963).

b. The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-13. Bronze Star Medal
a. The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944 (superseded by Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962).

b. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the Army of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in connection with military operations against an armed enemy; or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

d. The Bronze Star Medal may be awarded for meritorious achievement or meritorious service according to the following:

(1) Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

[semf]

but you really shouldn't call Gen Shinseki a "non-combat general". Armored Cav officer, 2 tours in Vietnam, 3 Bronze Stars, 3 Purple Hearts.
Ouch! I stand corrected. From the article I read in the local paper I thought he had never seen combat troops on display. Or at least never seen Rangers

[Ryder]

On a related note... I heard on the news a couple nights ago that the black lady prisoner from that operation is very upset at the lack of publicity she is getting in relation to the blonde lady prisoner.

Was everybody in that incident caught or killed? I haven't heard it mentioned that anyone escaped. Curious to know what happened to the person in charge after he told everyone to turn around. I've heard no mention of his ordeal at the hands of the Iraqis.

[rock jock]

The saddest part is that this story was packaged and marketed by none other than our own military. Witness the videotape of her rescue. Talk about choreographed for the cameras. They did succeed in selling the war, though.

[jimpeel]

Jessica Lynch is an ungrateful Twit. I guess she was the only soldier captured during the war.

[gun-fucious]

no way she got millions

maybe a couple hundred thousand

[RVSinOK]

Just to clarify my point, I have absolutely nothing against Jessica Lynch, and in no way intended to belittle what she went through.

If she and Miller were in the same unit with the same training why did Miller simply do what was expected of him, but Jessica is a hero for being a victim. I think America needed a hero to get behind and this story simply sells.

This is exactly my point. While I don't for a minute question the fact that she went through a terrible ordeal, what I do object to is the fact that the media is making her out to be so much more a "hero" than all of the other soldiers that are doing the same or even more than she did, some even sacrificing their lives for our country.

That she is saying in her book that she didn't want all the attention, and doesn't think she is a "hero" is awesome, and I respect her a lot for that. The problem I have is that the media (and maybe even the Pentagon) took advantage of what she went through to make her a poster child for the war effort.

She did "what was expected of her", and no more. The fact that she got seriously injured alone doesn't make her a "hero" in my book. While nobody wants to see any soldier get hurt, that is a real possibility when we go to war, and everyone who signs up for the military knows that. Jessica Lynch knows that, and it sounds like she doesn't really want all of the attention that she is getting, because she knows she didn't do all that much out of the ordinary. How many other soldiers have been rescued from some sort of peril, but without the Pentagon video cameras rolling? That's all I am upset about - this was just a made-for-TV rescue to create a "hero" where there was just an ordinary soldier.

If I offended any of our current or ex-military members, I sincerely apologize....that was most definitely not my intent!

[Publicola]

I'm no fan of the M16 weapons platform in combat roles. I think they're great for target shooting & varmint hunting, but there are better designs to choose from.

That being said I do not find it unlikely that Pvt. Lynch pulled back the bolt to chamber a cartridge & at that point it jammed.

If you recall the military has been a little strange about firearms safety lately. In fact I heard that most troops just prior to the start of hostilities were walking around with empty rifles. No ammo was distributed until the war started.

Given that I can see Pvt. Lynch & the other to have been ordered to have no cartridges in the chamber of their weapons. So when the shooting started everyone had to chamber the first round right then. & as I've said I find it plausible that something causes Pvt. Lynch's M16 to jam upon the initial chambering.

What I do have problems with is that 1 jam stopped her from mounting her own defense. Perhaps she was just overcome & couldn't get it cleared in time to do her any good. But I would like to know exactly what her unit was taught concerning clearing malfunctions & what orders they were under concerning the upkeep, maintenence & condition of their weapons while on duty.

Whatever the case I hold no animousity towards Pvt. Lynch. What I feel for her is more sympathy than admiration. I wish it hadn't happened to her, or anyone else. & I also wish she had better equipment & training so that she perhaps wouldn't have gone through what she went through.

I do feel there were others in her unit that deserved the attention that has been thrust upon her, but as someone alluded to earlier the press likes victims better than heroes & often confuses the two. They'd much rather point to someone that was rescued than those who did the rescuing. It's the same thing that makes the victims of a school shooting front page news, but any armed civilians who stopped the same shooting rarely get mentioned at all.

But all this is just my speculation based on limited information. I haven't heard too much detail about Pvt. Lynch & her story so it's possible I'd feel slightly different if I had more facts.

[Sergeant Bob]

RSKING45 Didnt even fire a round,Sounds like she put other solders at risk by going to her knees to pray,she let everone around her down,does this warrent a medal--HELL NO and sure as hell not a book by a coward

Lynch suffered a head laceration and spinal injury, and both her legs and her right arm and foot were broken during her ordeal in Iraq. According to authorities, she cannot recall details from the time she was ambushed in Iraq to a point during her captivity there.

CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/19/sprj.irq.bbc.lynch.dod/)
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• Her right arm was shattered between her shoulder and her elbow, and the compound fracture "shoved slivers of bone through muscles, nerves and skin."

• Her spine was fractured in two places.

• Her right foot was crushed.

• Her left leg was broken into pieces above and below the knee, "and splintered bone had made a mess of nerves and left her without feeling in that limb."

• The flesh along the hairline of her forehead was torn in a ragged, 4-inch line.

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-11-06-lynch_x.htm)
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I think coward is an awfully strong word to use. She probably didn't go to her knees and pray, more likely fell to her knees. Do you think you could have done any better?