Have "Rails", run their course in handguns

Do you think that the use of "Rails" on handguns, has run it's course, "as far as popularity goes"? We have discussed their usefulness, both pro and against, many times. It just feels like they are becoming less popular lately, what do you think?

I know some people complain about them but why have a weapon with reduced capabilities. I see more railed guns, not less.

Well, perhaps. I could never afford to put anything on my rails. Now I hear that people are getting away from mounted lights because they draw fire (which I knew but it'd be nice to have a free hand). I think with those that are now aware of the issue of drawing fire, more are probably seeing less use for the rails.

I haven't heard that, gunnutery, but I can ask around. I have a rail on my P01, never used it, but someday I'd like a dismountable light for home use.

Why with all the quotation marks? Are you implying that it isn't really as far as popularity goes?

Some of my pistols have rails, some don't, I've never put anything on a rail, and in general I think my pistols without tend to have cleaner lines compared to their railed brethren. CZ PCR is just a slick gun all around, and the Glock 27 definitely doesn't need a rail whereas the 23 possibly might. I'd be just as happy without the rails, but I don't believe rail or lack of a rail has ever had any impact on whether or not I bought a pistol.

but why have a weapon with reduced capabilities

And have a weapon with no holster selection.

[QUOTE]And have a weapon with no holster selection.[/QUOTE

Most holster makers provide models for railed guns. They're here to stay.

I do not believe that rails have run their course, as far as popularity goes. Come to think of it, quite the opposite.

No. To me, and to many gun buyers such as police departments, guns are tools first. Most who oppose rails do so for aesthetic reasons. To one who is buying a gun for its use as a tool, that is generally irrelevant. I agree with the poster who mentioned not buying a gun with reduced capabilities. I carry a G19 with a weapon-light on the rail and have a holster designed to carry this combination. I would not trade these capabilities for anything, no matter how ugly others may think it is. It's a tool, not a piece of art. There will still be guns made to look pretty with wood and carvings and all that for those who want something to put in a case for display. For those who want the most capable tool they can get, rails are here to stay.

I don't think so. I have rails on most of mine, although the only one in use right now is the one on my Glock 21SF. I keep a TLR-2 light/laser combo on it and use it as my HD weapon. Just because it's on there doesn't mean you have to use it; the situation will dictate its use or not, so I'm not worried about drawing fire. The TLR-2 can be swapped to any of the other railed weapons if I need or want to do so. Why limit yourself if you don't have to?

As far as holsters, I haven't found any of my guns to be lacking in holster choices. Galco, Crossbreed, Comptac, Desantis, etc all make holsters for all kinds of railed weapons.

IMHO, rails are here to stay, like it or not, as I think it will become harder to find a semi-auto pistol without a rail. With the few exceptions being very small concealable pistols like the LCP, P3AT and others. LM

Actually, I think the exact opposite is taking place. People look at me all funny when I say that my defensive handguns don't have rails; some have looked at me like I'm completely out of my mind when the find out they are "old man six shooters".

Do you think that the use of "Rails" on handguns, has run it's course,
I don't think so, I think the opposite is true. I think as more and more people see the advantage of gun mounted lights and laser/lights, especially on HD guns, the rail becomes a necessity.
I wish several of my older pistols had rails.

After some years using using gun mounted lasers and laser/lights ALL of my defense guns are equipped with them, if available.
Not having a rail can be a deal breaker when I'm buying a new pistol.

I must say though, I think the pistol rails are ugly.:)

Every time I introduce someone to the rail mounted laser light the reaction is, I want one of them.

I would rather carry a light that I can use without having to draw my firearm. For CCW purposes a rail has no use in my book.

No rails on my pistols

I think rails will stick around because they provide a vital functionality. It allows the user to have a weapon light and/or a laser mounted.

Holding a flashlight in your free hand and your firearm in your strong hand has some strong disadvantages. One, you are out of hands. This limits your ability to engage in other activities you need your hands for such as holding the phone/calling the police, opening doors, and engaging in a close quarter confrontation. That last one, may or may not require a free hand, but there could be an instance where the perp manages to jump out and grab hold of your gun, alternatively its conceivable that the perp poses a sufficiently limited risk that you may chose to use less than lethal force in dealing with them (i.e. 11 year old, unarmed gang banger). Secondly, you have to consider the design of your flashlight. I have one (non-gun light) which has a depress for momentary/press for on switch. I find the switch a little tight for turning it on in the continuous mode. Another switch system that I have seen uses a depress for momentary/turn for continuous switch. Turning the dial with only one hand (while holding the flashlight between your ring and middle finger - to allow some off-hand support for your weapon) is near impossible. Lastly, there is an increase likelihood of dropping your light. That can be pretty bad. Imagine it falling downstairs while you are at the top.

Not using a flashlight is also not a great idea. Sure sometimes it'll work, but not always, particularly not if you have to move around your house. If your house is totally dark, and you use no light, then there is a chance that you will stumble on the BG and give him a chance to wrestle your weapon away. Sure you have the advantage moving - your know your house and they don't, so they are more likely to bump into stuff. But that is reversed if they hold their position and listen to your footsteps. (This may be less of an issue if they are downstairs and you have an accessible phone upstairs).

Most houses are not perfectly dark, however. In fact there is often enough light from the clocks on various appliances, moonlight, street light in urban situations, and other external lighting such as your own motion activated lights to allow a person to be silhouetted while moving in front of a window or light colored wall. That once again mean that if the BG stops while you are moving he has an advantage. Even if he moves close enough to you to dash/shoot at you while you move towards the phone, the moment you continue your motion while he is stopped he has the advantage.

You could turn on the lights, but that creates the same problems. If you close your door and wait for the cops to show (assuming you have a phone in your room), the BGs can either make out with your belongings, with you being useless as a witness, or bust into your room. In that situation neither party will have a light advantage. If you are mobile during the incident whether its to investigate a bump in the night, to access a phone, or to engage the target, you are likely to give the advantage to the BG once you turn on the light. Most switches are in the same room/hallway as the lights which they turn on. So when you turn one on you are at least somewhat illuminated, but the perp may be difficult to make out in a less lit area. Also, in houses with an open floor plan, when you are in an illuminated area coming around a corner into a less illuminated area, your shadow will often fall on a wall visible from the less illuminated area. Similarly, the windows in an illuminated area serve as mirrors that can be viewed from nearby rooms/hallways. So if you turn on interior lighting you can be observed indirectly and give the advantage to the BG.

That leaves the option of having a light on your weapon. Gunutery is right in that they can be used to target you. However, running down an alley with your light on, and moving inside your own house are two different things.

In an alley there may still be shadows in which it is difficult to make out an individual & and a person may be outside the range of your light. In your own house the longest straight line is unlikely to be more than 40 - 50 feet and thanks to the walls & ceilings a good weapons light (typically in the 120 lumen range) will illuminate the entire space well enough. That means that if you turn the light on at corners, staying partially concealed behind corners, doors, etc to avoid presenting a silhouette, the BG will see you once you turn on your light. You will see the BG once you turn your light and scan the area - around the kitchen counter, the door way at the back, etc. So that gives the BG(s) an advantage of only a fraction of a second, and that may be partially offset by the dazzling effect of your light. We will assume that you and the BG have a similar reaction time. So the critical aspect will be who has the better accuracy. If the BG fires first, he may only have a general direction as a reference due to the dazzling effect of the light and lack of any clear visibility beyond the light. You will have the advantages of not being dazzled and using your sights. This would stack the odds more or less evenly. Doing down a hallway, where there is only one direction to focus on, you may even have a slight advantage.

Additionally, there are the benefits of a laser which may be mounted on your gun, even in the absence of a light. These advantages partially carry over to the daytime.

I think that a traditional, steal gun such as a 1911 looks nice without rails. However, firearms such as Glocks which are "boxy", for lack of a better word, around the slide, look better with a rail rather than a curved frame. At least that's my take on it. So in terms of aesthetics, its a toss up. It depends on the gun. But when practicality is factored in, rails offer strong benefits that should not be overlooked.

I'll add that a light mounted on a gun shined around a room, and just a light shined around a room look pretty much the same on the bright side. Its a giveaway that you're there, and that you have a light, but its not advertising that you have a gun.

Putting myself in the BG's shoes, I think if i were caught in someones house I'd try to run, if I were caught and realized the homeowner was armed, I'd probably want to disable/slow them and then run rather than risk being shot outright by a pissed off 'hero'.

Now I hear that people are getting away from mounted lights because they draw fire

If your light is drawing fire to your position, you're using it wrong.

Rails allow for options. It might be fair to consider that having options can be better than not having options.

Ever since we replaced our older pistols with new models which are equipped with rails I've seen increasingly more folks choosing to hang lights on them.

I've also seen an increase in the number of folks who are complaining about broken bulbs, broken/loose spring clips, 'frosted over' lenses, etc.

It's been said that handguns are a compromise.

In that sense it shouldn't be surprising that attaching another piece of equipment to a handgun can add its own potential for further compromise.

The rails are great especially when I'm hunting racoons, a light on a rail is as handy as sliced cheese when grilling burgers.

I have several guns with rails but I have never bought a gun because of the rail. The guns I bought just happened to have them. I personally perfer not to have the rail. On the other hand my bedside gun has a rail so I spent the $80 for a Streamlight TLR-3 to go on it. Seems to work OK.
Dallas Jack

Rails are for fun. Lasers are fun, lights are fun, hunting is fun. Somebody breaking in your house is not fun. In a situation like that, if you think you'll be calm enough to find tiny little switches and fumble around with a bunch of levers then try doing it in the middle of a freeway at rush hour. I'd prefer to spend my money on a big dog that hates strange noises......

Muzzle flash in a dark room - where'd that laser dot go ????

My home defense tactics:
1) a nervous dog
2) a 12ga pump
3) anything else that will shoot without having to read the directions

Rails are for fun. Lasers are fun, lights are fun, hunting is fun. Somebody breaking in your house is not fun. In a situation like that, if you think you'll be calm enough to find tiny little switches and fumble around with a bunch of levers then try doing it in the middle of a freeway at rush hour. I'd prefer to spend my money on a big dog that hates strange noises......

Muzzle flash in a dark room - where'd that laser dot go ????

1. Tiny switches? I have a nice long pressure pad connected to the pump that makes it much easier for me to use another hand instead of holding a light, which would be hard with a long gun.

2. Muzzle flash can be significantly reduced with proper loads designed for this.

I used to tell my wife when I was deployed, lock the bedroom door everynight.
If you hear a noise grab the baby and go in the bathroom and lock that door. Go from the bathroom to the walk in closet and lock that door, then place the shotgun under the door knob and sit against the wall, if the knob turns, reach over and pull the trigger.
I have no intention of clearing the house when an alarm system, a doberman with PMS and a burgler all converge.
Lights may be handy for LEO's but I will sit and wait for that doorknob to turn and /or the LEO's to show up.
I would rather laugh and give that dog a milk bone as I fill out the insurance forms than worry about a light and clearing a room.

If your light is drawing fire to your position, you're using it wrong.

ABSOUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!
The same thing with lasers.

I get SO TIRED of hearing that stuff.:cuss:

I used to tell my wife when I was deployed, lock the bedroom door everynight.
If you hear a noise grab the baby and go in the bathroom and lock that door. Go from the bathroom to the walk in closet and lock that door, then place the shotgun under the door knob and sit against the wall, if the knob turns, reach over and pull the trigger.
I have no intention of clearing the house when an alarm system, a doberman with PMS and a burgler all converge.
Lights may be handy for LEO's but I will sit and wait for that doorknob to turn and /or the LEO's to show up.
I would rather laugh and give that dog a milk bone as I fill out the insurance forms than worry about a light and clearing a room.

So you advised your wife to discharge a shotgun at a target she hasn't identified?

So you advised your wife to discharge a shotgun at a target she hasn't identified?
My thoughts exactly. Hope it's not the police responding to her 911 call.

Hope it's not the police responding to her 911 call.

If the cops are sneaking through your house when they're responding to your call, then that department has serious training issues.

If they broke through a dog and three doors without a warning yes they need some training. I have never heard a LEO not clearly ID himself several times and loudly in any situation where a gun may be used.
This is Texas, we all have guns and are apt to defend ourselves. LEO's respect that and protect themselves accordingly.
The point is I sure didnt want her to clear a house with a baby in one arm and a handgun with a flashlight in the other. I wouldnt reccomend it for myself either. You can take the widescreen if you can get away before the LEO's get to the house. Afterall thats what the alarm is for.
I think a flashlight on my pistol is handy, but it wont make a big red "S" appear on my chest.

Every time I read a thead like this, I say the same thing: which has already been said:
If you buy a pistol with a rail and you are absolutely, totally against using a weapon mounted light, you don't have to. Nobody is forcing you to. But if you later decide you were mistaken, you still have the option. If you buy a gun with no rail and later discover the advantages to a weapon mounted light: your only option is to buy a new gun.

It is all about options and versatility. One has it, the other doesn't.

And as always, train.
Go out with your chosen light and shoot with it. Practice doing mag changes. Practice doing malfunction drills. Practice opening doors.......................... All with the light. If you have a chance to shoot an IDPA match at night, do it. If you have the opportunity to take a formal training class conducted at night, do it.
Don't buy into the internet logic that this could never happen to me. Some people get a given senario in their mind and refuse to believe that anything else could possibly happen. They will give you responses like: I will never have to reload my pistol because of ____________. They will tell you they will never have a malfunction because of _____________. The will never need to use their hands for anything like opening door knobs because of _________. These people have never heard of Murphy. They never heard that the best plan never survives the first contact with the enemy.

For the guy talking about shotguns: have you ever tried to load a shotgun with a flashlight in your hand ? Oh, I forgot, you will never have to load your shotgun with a light in your hand because of ___________________.

I have two defensive type shotguns. Both have lights mounted on them.


Keep in mind that if you are using the weapon for home defense and DO need to use your hands, you probably won't have a pocket to stick the light in if you were sleeping when the situation goes down.

The devil's advocate says: When you have a light on a weapon and you are using that light to see, everything that you see has a loaded firearm being pointed at it. In some cases, that's great...in others...not so much. Everything is a catch 22 though. With a pump action shotgun, you need 2 hands to operate it properly. Not having a light means not being able to see your target clearly and puts you in the same type of situation. There is no right or wrong here. Everything about this situation is a give or take. To me it makes a lot more sense for hd than for ccw.

As far as weaponlights go....mounted to the pistol may be fine if you're wearing body armor....but for average joe who has an inch or so of bodyfat to protect himself, and maybe a bathrobe....I'd rather go with a separate flashlight.

As for the laser: Crimson Trace is making the need for a rail-mount laser obsolete, and there are now companies making guide-rod lasers as well. Why have a attachment when it can be integrated completely or close to?

I personally see them as more of a military/police suited technology as opposed to the average CCer/home defender.

I really never gave the rails much thought other than to not hang a light on them. I have a XD40 sub compact with a Lasermax that does not use the rail, a S&W M&P 9MM with a Crimson Trace Grip Laser. I believe the rails are here to stay, they do sell a lot of Lights/Lasers that mount on the rails.

I don't think rails have run their course. There are many different and purposeful uses for rails on handguns. I do, however, think that holster manufacturers need to give us more options for light/ laser equipped weapons. I, for one, certainly can't afford the $230-330 crimson trace grips for all of my guns, and it would be nice to see some holsters catering to those who enjoy toys on their rails.

For the guy talking about shotguns: have you ever tried to load a shotgun with a flashlight in your hand ? Oh, I forgot, you will never have to load your shotgun with a light in your hand because of ___________________.
Not at all,...
I am saying, flashlights on weapons are handy, thinking they make you bullet proof and multiply your numbers by 3 is just wrong though. If you think that weapon, rail and flashlight will be all it takes to save you, well then the whole intent of the rail and flashlight or laser was lost on you.
They may have not run their course, but like any tool it has limitations that many people here wont acknowledge them. How many times have you read here, I have the weapon and the flashlight is mounted, now I will now clear my home..?
I am saying if you have an alarm and lights that come on when the alarm is tripped you are much better off than clearing your house with a Pistol or shotgun with a flashlight on a rail.
I dont have to load my shotgun,..it is loaded, as long as I stay put and the alarm and dog are busy, I have two doors between me and the bad guy I have time to rack a slide and take a better defencive position.
I dont need a flashlight when the alarm and lights come on. I will hide and wait for the alarm, dog and LEO's to do their jobs.
Being on the Defence rather than offence increases my odds of survival dramatically. The money spent on these things far surpasses the value of a light mounted on the weapon I choose to defend my home with.
If you need a weapon mounted flashlight professionally, good for you, get one and learn how to use it.
If you are the average homeowner, get a great alarm system, get a dog and get to know your Local LEO's. The money and time spent will increase your odds of survival.
If you would rather leave safety because you have a distorted view of what a rail mounted laser or flashlight on your weapon provides you. I can only say well, then the rail has ran it's course for you, or perhaps you never really understood it in the first place.... I will send flowers.

The rail fad must be over if I'm buying guns with rails.

I'm 59 and a stick in the mud and 2 of my last three handgun purchases have had rails - an FNP-45 USG and a SIG X-5 Tactical with a threaded barrel. Like I need a threaded barrel, but the great 4.5# trigger sold me on it. The 3rd gun was more typical for me - a '67 4" Python. Like I needed another Python.

John

Don't have any use for them personally, but don't care one way or the other if a gun has them. I wonder if some sort of rail cover would pacify those who are offended by the aesthetics of them?

Rails are here to stay, and will only get more common and numerous as time goes on. I'd venture to guess the only market niche where non-railed designs will remain viable for real working are pocket pistols, and even for those some options have rails as well.

"will only get more common"

You're right, of course. I guess I could Dremel 'em off or something. I have this Dremel kit somebody gave me and I never use it. Touch up the scar with some black appliance paint and it'd be good to go. Oh, I have a half a can of black Rustoleum I could use. ;)

John

I don't own a handgun with a rail. If I have any alternative, I won't. I bought a 2nd Gen Glock 19 to avoid the rail and finger grooves.

The rail is useless to me so there's no point in having it.

Here to stay, for good, forever.

At least two of my handguns have rails. A couple future ones will surely have them too.

The rail is useful to be so there's a point in having it.

Rails aren't a fad...they're here to stay. I don't like them, personally, but my personal opinion isn't likely to affect the firearms industry overly much.

444 said was I was going to say, however said it much better than I would have.

There's really no point in not having one on a service-sized handgun. I wish the 1911 makers made all their rails the same though.

I really dont see the point in a rail on a gun with a <4" bbl though. Yeah, I'm talking to you, Kimber and Springfield.

I am partially paralyzed and have difficulty getting around. I frequently have to use a walker to get around in the house and carrying things is sometimes difficult. Even on my best days I have to steady myself on something as i walk around. So I really need to be able to do everything one handed or take a chance of falling which leaves me and the Admiral in a bad condition if there were to be a home invasion.

I have 4 handguns. 2 have rails and 2 don't. A rail on a P3AT is silly. And I think a laser on one is silly too. It's a deep conceal or can't possibly conceal another gun and anything that makes it larger is defeating it's purpose. And I carry it in the hottest part of the summer in Florida.

My Kel-Tec PF9 has a rail and a CAT laser. I take the laser off sometimes when I carry it, sometimes leave it on, especially if I will be out late. The laser stays aligned quite well with on and off, it's just a PITA because it takes an allen wrench. And the laser is very small and fits in a Desantis holster.

My G19 has a Streamlight TLR2 on and off. Quick thumb screw and it's off in the daytime and on at night. 15 second job. I keep it on light/laser combo and if I light something up the red dot is right in the middle of the light. I like haveing that option, especially for HD. I mostly use the G19 as a winter carry gun, because I rarely wear enough clothes to conceal a gun as large as the compact Glock. It's Florida.

My primary HD gun does not have a rail and I really wish it did. I have seen instructions for adding one, but I'm not quite sure I want to do that to my Ruger KP90. So I end up carrying the gun and a 140 lumen flashlight and I would really love to have that all in one hand. Yeah the Glock has 15+1 or 17+1 when I put the G17 mag in it, but the Ruger is more comfortable to shoot and, to me, seems more "natural" for point shooting.

We do have an alarm, but as the saying goes "When seconds count the cops are only minutes away. And the way our house is laid out, there really aren't any hiding places to wait for help. It's a very open layout. And neither of us is physically up to taking care of a dog. Even a small but noisy one requires being walked and excersized and a lot of things that we have just gotten too old to do.

So, we just have to do what we can. Oh, and I have finally decided that my 12 gauge is not an acceptable HD gun except as a last resort if we can manage to get together behind the bed in the master BR. It's just a bit more bulky than I am up to now

And a rail sort of adds a slim line to a gun if there is nothing on it. I actually like the esthetics of the rail.

JMNSHO &, of course, YMMV

A rail on a P3AT is silly. And I think a laser on one is silly too rail...agreed... silly to put a laser on one...completely disagree.. a P3AT (and LCP) has the most useless sights in the gun world. What is silly about something that greater helps to use the gun effectively under stress?

rail...agreed... silly to put a laser on one...completely disagree.. a P3AT (and LCP) has the most useless sights in the gun world. What is silly about something that greater helps to use the gun effectively under stress?
For my use, the laser is just in the way on the .380 Kelty. It's a carry it when I can't conceal anything else gun, any use would be in bright light, probably in a mall or WW parking lot, and the laser probably wouldn't be visible any way. As I said, JMHO and what works for me.

As far as weaponlights go....mounted to the pistol may be fine if you're wearing body armor....but for average joe who has an inch or so of bodyfat to protect himself, and maybe a bathrobe....I'd rather go with a separate flashlight.


My main self defense weapon is a Full size Kimber Custom II TLE-RL. I keep a flashlight on it, but It is for home defense, I am not going to Iraq with it, and most bad guys, as far as I know, are unarmed when they break into your home. If ther is significant stats to show that most burglars are armed to the teeth, please show me.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, since the discussion has certainly gone into this direction.

Lasers and lights on pocket pistols change the outline of the weapon, so if and when it prints in your pocket, the shape of the triggerguard is completely concealed. It prints 'wallet' or 'cell phone', instead of 'gun'.

I've been thinking about this issue as well. If I buy a semi-auto pistol I think I'd prefer to have a rail on it. At this point I have no desire to mount a light or laser on it, but I'd like to have the option some years down the road should I wish to.

The only thing I can say with confidence is I'm not mounting a bayonet on a pistol. The first time I saw that silly thing, I had to look it up to make sure such a thing actually existed. It was so stupid I assumed it had to be a joke; shockingly, it's not a joke. Well, it is a joke, but it's a joke that exists.

Have rails run their course? Not hardly; it seems guns without rails have run their course.
Some makers are still making handguns without rails, but the average gun buyer, as opposed to the average gun traditionalist or enthusiast, seems to want a rail, and the makers respond to the market.

As for a light on a pistol giving away your position, well, a light in your hand does the same thing. Reflected light bounces off things and illuminates you, regardless, especially if there are white or light-colored ceiling and walls. It is possible to "hide" behind a wall of light, if you know what you are doing, so that a bad guy cannot pinpoint your exact position, but he will know about where you are. Ideally, one man uses the light to shield the movements of a partner, which one reason among several that one man should NOT clear a house or building by himself. One man can remain behind cover, providing directed illumination, while the other's movements are concealed by the light.

When does a weapon-mounted light shine, no pun intended? It is when you know someone is there, and that someone knows you are there; the two of you can indeed shoot each other, but there is not enough light available to identify friend or foe. It IS acceptable to point a weapon at a potential threat.

FWIW, I work night shift big-city police patrol in a big city, and I like to have a light on the weapon, another in my hand, AND a third as a spare. The one in the hand does most of the work.

I'm not as convinced as Rexter, but no.

Guns go through trends. I remember back in the late 80s/early 90s, when in the movies, all these guns had extended barrels or compensators. Guys at gun shows selling junky, two-piece screw-on compensators for ten bucks. Haven't seen one lately. Now these things still exist, but they aren't nearly as prevalent.

I do think that a chunk of the market share for people who buy guns with rails are people who will buy them, and in their whole lifetime, never put anything on them. They will look at them in ten years and wonder why the heck they got that thing. Guns with rails won't fit in conventional holsters, and aren't particularly well-suited for carry when you can get grip-integrated or guide-rod contained lasers without using the rail. You can have a light in your pocket or next to your spare mags, and use it separately from the gun, and use it WITH the gun when you NEED to. People have been doing it for decades. This will always be easier than jamming a Glock with a light hanging under it into your waistband. You can add rails to existing guns, and darn near all accessories that you can put on a rail, you can get one that latches to the trigger guard, or clamp an aftermarket rail to a regular gun.

I think that in ten years, there will be models of most guns AVAILABLE with a rail, but most guns for sale in the average store won't have them.

My CZ75B doesn't have a rail, but my S&W revolver does. And I have a light bolted to it next to me at night.

Now how to use it in a tactical situation, I'm not sure yet. I need to look into it more. But this board just makes it more confusing, because opinions are like butt's, everybody and there mother has one.:uhoh:

I hope so.

My main self defense weapon is a Full size Kimber Custom II TLE-RL. I keep a flashlight on it, but It is for home defense, I am not going to Iraq with it, and most bad guys, as far as I know, are unarmed when they break into your home. If ther is significant stats to show that most burglars are armed to the teeth, please show me.

The point was this:

In a dark room, if the BG is armed....where is your light in relation to YOUR COM?

Exactly....dead center....all he has to do is shoot at the light, and even if you get him, the wounds you recieve very well may get you too.

That's where my body armor comment came from....military/police have this luxury called body armor, which reduce the threat of pistol fire to COM enough that they can afford to have the light spot right there.

I'm a fan of the high and to the side (FBI) flashlight technique.

NEVER assume that a burglar isn't armed. That can be a very dangerous mistake if you're wrong. Play it safe.

Rails?! Bah! This old school shooter don't need no stinkin' rails.

think about it.. if you are not supposed to point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy or you are not clear about your target and what is behind it, why would you have a light attached to the muzzle end of a gun?? rail light encourages non-compliance to safety rules...very dangerous...

It has been over a year since I last bought a pistol with a rail. I will never, ever buy another. I have no need for and don't own any lights, lasers or other accessory rail gear. In my opinion rails totally screw up the aesthetics of otherwise fine looking guns.

In light of the fact that some people, LEOs for example, have a genuine need for railed guns and many others (based on prior posts in the thread) detest them I believe the gun manufacturers should offer both rail and no-rail versions of their wares so we have a choice.

To me, the option is simply not using them. I find them ugly as sin, but that won't stop me from buying a railed handgun.

For long arms, they definatly have their uses....but isn't this in the pistol forum? ;)