30-30 VS. .44 Magnum


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LubeckTech
November 21, 2009, 03:50 PM
Which one is better for deer in a lever action rifle for deer in the 50 - 150 yard range?

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Blue Brick
November 21, 2009, 03:56 PM
My vote is the 30WCF- faster, flatter, less expensive, with longer range.

schlockinz
November 21, 2009, 04:00 PM
30-30 will hold more power. 44mag could be in combo with a pistol, and will still kill at that range. I believe that you'll get more capacity out of the 44 as well.

Arkansas Paul
November 21, 2009, 04:31 PM
.30-30 hands down. Especially at 150 yds.

rbernie
November 21, 2009, 04:43 PM
The 30-30 starts with more oomph and keeps it across its useful range. Looking at the data from Remington's web site: http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30301*R44MG2

30-30: Remington® Express® 150 Soft Point Core-Lokt®
44Mag: Remington® Express® 240 Soft Point

Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Muzzle 100 200 300
30-30 @ 2390 1973 1605 1303
44Mag @ 1760 1380 1114 970

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Muzzle 100 200 300
30-30 @ 1902 1296 858 565
44Mag @ 1650 1015 661 501

Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type 50 100 150 200 250 300
30-30 @ 0.2 zero -2.4 -7.6 -16.1 -28.8
44Mag @ zero -2.1 -8.7 -21.2 -40.6 -67.7

rcmodel
November 21, 2009, 04:52 PM
There are those of us who believe the .44 Mag is a better deer killer at ranges under 100 yards.
Bigger hole going in, and as big or bigger coming out the other side lets out more blood faster.

Beyond 100 yards or so, the 30-30 wins due to it's flatter trajectory & punch at longer range.

rc

saturno_v
November 21, 2009, 05:08 PM
Up to 150 yards, they would both kill deer very dead and the animal would not probably notice the difference.

However the 30-30 has more muzzle energy, better SD, flatter trajectory...the 30 WCF is a true high powered rifle cartridge, the 44 Magnum is a revolver cartridge.

Especially with the new Hornady Leverevolution loads, the 30-30 really shines...people are taking game cleanly well over 300 yards.

With the right load the good old 30 WCF can become a decent Elk cartridge, the 44 Mag not.

My vote is for the 30-30.

However it's fun to have a revolver and a rifle sharing the same cartridge...

The Bushmaster
November 21, 2009, 05:22 PM
300 yards with the hornady plastic bullet? In a Lever gun? Give me a break. The hornady 160 grain leverevolution is not that much of an improvment (if any at all) over the 150 and 170 grain soft point bullets. Anyone shooting a .30 WCF (.30-30) at deer that are 300 yards away are doing just that..."Shooting AT the deer...

But still it is better then the .44 magnum.....

MichaelK
November 21, 2009, 06:10 PM
I took this year's deer with my Marlin rifle in .44. A 240 grain hollowpoint at 60 yards put venison in the freezer. The only disappointing thing is that I got 100% penetration and an exit wound, so no bullet to show off.

saturno_v
November 21, 2009, 06:21 PM
300 yards with the hornady plastic bullet? In a Lever gun? Give me a break. The hornady 160 grain leverevolution is not that much of an improvment (if any at all) over the 150 and 170 grain soft point bullets. Anyone shooting a .30 WCF (.30-30) at deer that are 300 yards away are doing just that..."Shooting AT the deer...



Evidently you did not look at the ballistic performances of the Leverevolution loads compared to other commercial offering from Remchesteral.

1025 ft/lb of energy left at 300 yards, basically roughly double than any round nosed/flat nosed loads...and look at the drop at the same distance

You should try them before judgding....

content
November 21, 2009, 06:38 PM
Hello friends and neighbors // 30-30

Flip a coin up to 150 yards then 30-30 will have less drop the more yards you add.
30-30 rifle or ammo is cheaper and easier to find.

Unless you also have or intend to buy 44mag. revolver I'd go with 30-30.

flipajig
November 21, 2009, 07:48 PM
I load a shoot them both out to 100 to 150 both will kill a deer It just depends on what you like. Ive loaded a 200 grn JHP and my doughter really likes them. we will see on how well they will work on a deer next week (hopefully if all goes well) they are running right at 1800 RPMS so they should work..

The Bushmaster
November 22, 2009, 11:15 AM
That's OK Saturno v. You buy into the leverevolution hype. But I've played with a .30 WCF sense I was 18 (66 now). My Ol' Jackhandle is my favorite hunting rifle. I've even played with the Hornady 160 grain leverevolution. I see very little improvment over my reloads (170 grain Speer Hotcore FN). Infact mine are more accurate and at long range (for .30-30) drop almost as much as the leverevolutions. As I can't measure ft/lbs. I'll let you do the reading as to what "others", who have a vested interest in Hornady, have written.

MCgunner
November 22, 2009, 12:56 PM
No doubt, another .30-30 vote here. Not that the .44 won't do the job to 100 yards, but it's falling off pretty quick at 150 wih that low BC. Leverlution makes the .30-30 a runaway.

I load the .30-30 to 2100 fps with a 150 Nosler BT in a 12" contender pistol. It's carrying over 1000 ft lbs at 200 yards and shoots flat enough to zero at 200. The .30-30 is superior as a deer hunting round to the .44 in both pistol and rifle IMHO.

MCgunner
November 22, 2009, 01:05 PM
That's OK Saturno v. You buy into the leverevolution hype. But I've played with a .30 WCF sense I was 18 (66 now). My Ol' Jackhandle is my favorite hunting rifle.

Been handloading about as long as you've been shooting that carbine and I understand ballistics. Yes, the leverlution/revolution, whatever it is, SHOULD (I've never shot it) carry an extra 100 yards of effectiveness. I used to shoot 150 Sierras in my old Savage M340 (bolt gun, box mag) that I got when I was 16, 57 now, and the difference in trajectory was significant, though I never wanted to use that load on game for fear the bullet wouldn't expand. I can tell ya, that Nosler BT expands! Anyway, back then, I didn't have a chronograph or ballistics software. Now, I do. That rifle was sold to my uncle 30 years ago and I only load the caliber for my pistol now. It's taken 5 deer, but none past 90 yards.......yet.

I can tell ya, too, that old Savage was an MOA gun with most everything I fired in it. My Contender is 1.5 MOA accurate. The caliber is very capable of MOA in the right gun.

SlamFire1
November 22, 2009, 01:13 PM
I have not hit a deer with either. However I have banged away at my gong targets with both.

I am impressed with how hard the 44 Mag hits the 100 yard gong target. There is a lot of momentum left in my 240 grain slugs.

The 30-30 hits hard and will cracter the mild steel plate.

I think the 30-30 is a better choice as it has a bit more range.

At 50 yards-100 yards, I don't think there is much difference.

natman
November 22, 2009, 01:49 PM
It depends on how sincere you are about the 100-150 yard range. With conventional bullets a 44 mag pretty much runs out of steam past 100 yards. The bullets are about as aerodynamic as tuna cans and slow down fast. The 30-30 will do better between 100-150. LeveRevolution ammo will add 50+ yards to that in either chambering. Accuracy is going to limit a 30-30 lever action as a 300 yard rifle.

The big plus is that 44 mags come in smaller, lighter carbines than 30-30. Compare a Marlin 1894 to a 336.

The Bushmaster
November 22, 2009, 02:01 PM
MCgunner...I have played with reloads using the Sierra 150 grain Spire point flat base at 2250 fps from my .30 WCF. The gain was negligable. My load for hunting is a Speer 170 grain Hotcore FN over 32 grains of W-748 at 2050 to 2100 fps (average). At 100 yards bench resting three holes 1 5/8" spread center to center. For years and years (as you know) they have tried to make the thutty-thutty a long range rifle with no success (including campfire stories). I doubt that Hornady have done it either.

saturno_v
November 22, 2009, 02:13 PM
Bushmaster


If 6 less inches drop at 300 yards (zero 200 yards) and double the retained energy for you is insignificant, I guess that is your opinion.

Denying that a more aerodinamic spitzer bullet will shoot much flatter and carrying considerable more energy downrange compared to a flat or round nosed one is ignoring reality.

Nowdays it's very easy to figure out ballistics


Here you go, this site has a free online ballistic calculator (JBM)

http://www.jbmballistics.com/

Input some data for muzzle velocity, bullet weight and aliber and ballistic coefficient and see it for yourself.

By the way, potentially the 30 WCF is a very accurate cartridge.

The Bushmaster
November 22, 2009, 06:14 PM
Not really, but there are exceptions. My Ol' Jackhandle is 60 years old...

351 WINCHESTER
November 22, 2009, 10:34 PM
My old marlin .30-30 was my deer rifle for many years. If I did my part it never let me down. My favorite load was w/w 150 jhp. My son uses a 1894 marlin in .44 mag. and loves it. The .30wcf is better than the .44 for longer shots. I have yet to try the hornady's loadings and it looks like I should.

I think up close the .44 might have a slight edge, but I doubt a deer would notice any difference.

The most overlooked consideration in choosing a hunting rifle is how it balances, carries and comes up to the shoulder. I have yet to find anything that even comes close to my 336.

MCgunner
November 23, 2009, 08:39 AM
Well, let's face it, to 100 yards my .357 Magnum lever gun will kill a deer just as dead as the .44 or the .30-30. The deer ain't gonna know the difference in any of the three. The advantage the .30-30 has is a little more range. If you're hunting in thick cover like I do and you can't see past 100 yards, the difference is superfluous.

wheelgunslinger
November 23, 2009, 09:00 AM
Yeah, below 100m it's more like asking who is a better football team - Brumbies or Waratahs.

hossfly
November 23, 2009, 09:24 AM
I wouldn't choose either for long range. Up to 100 yards, it's a matter of preference. I primarily kill my deer now with a 44 magnum revolver and if I'll be getting any longer shots, I take an '06. If you have or are going to get a 44 revolver a matching rifle might simplify your life.

Nicodemus38
November 23, 2009, 11:49 PM
if you want to use a 44 lever gun for deer hunting, i suggest you purchase hornady ammunition, in the 185 grain xtp load for 44 mag. it will cleanly and humanely harvest a 3 year old buck at 150 yards.

DannySeesUSMC
November 24, 2009, 12:51 AM
The Bushmaster, are you shooting a 60 year old rifle with the same barrel this whole time?

All, for 30-30 vs 44 Magnum I would take the 44...it is a different animal entirely. 300 grain bullets at 1800 fps vs. 150, 160, or 170 grain bullet at 2,100 2,300 2,400 or 2,500 fps it doesn't matter...not in the same ball park. Not that it matters much for animals that live in most states.

If you want flatter trajectory it makes all the sense in the world to put up with a different type of rifle in 308 Win (or similar) and skip past the 30-30 all together. If you want, you could load it down to 30-30 gentle kisses recoil and still use the much better bullets for rifles with stacked magazines.

The Bushmaster
November 24, 2009, 10:08 AM
DannySeesUSMC...The rifle is 100% original...Well...Except for a 14ct gold front bead...Why?

MCgunner
November 24, 2009, 11:37 AM
I wouldn't choose either for long range. Up to 100 yards, it's a matter of preference. I primarily kill my deer now with a 44 magnum revolver and if I'll be getting any longer shots, I take an '06. If you have or are going to get a 44 revolver a matching rifle might simplify your life.

That was the original reason I bought my Rossi 92 in .357, the fact that I was heavily into the caliber reloading and owned handguns in the caliber. I found it quite acceptable for deer/hog at short range and with my 105 grain SWC over 2.3 grains bullseye load in .38 brass, it shoots 1.5" at 50 yards (900 fps MV), good for small game, two guns in one. :D A 165 grain .357 SWC at 1900 fps is plenty for deer or even meat hogs. I mean, I have scoped hunting rifles in up to 7mm rem mag, but it's just a cool little carbine and I'd like to have one in .454 Casull. That'd be about as good as a .45-70 for thumpin' big hogs, I'm thinkin'. The .44 ain't bad, though, to 100 yards. :D

DannySeesUSMC
November 24, 2009, 11:56 AM
The Bushmaster, was just wondering concerning the accuracy you were talking about.

I would be glowing with a 60 year old rifle shot on a regular basis with the same barrel that still consistently shoots under 2" at 100 yards.

The Bushmaster
November 24, 2009, 12:58 PM
It only will shoot under 2" with tailored handloads. Factory ammunition it shoots a bit over 3"...

I've had it sense I was 18 and I've taken good care of it...

MCgunner
November 24, 2009, 06:19 PM
Buddy of mine, my age, has a pre-64 M94 with a Williams aperture receiver sight. I sat down with that thing and put 5 rounds on the bull into 1.5" when my eyes were younger with factory 150 flat point Winchester loads. That thing is pretty amazing. Hey, just because it's old, don't mean it's wore out. I keep telling myself that. :D .30-30 is pretty easy on bores, too.

kmrcstintn
November 27, 2009, 12:16 AM
I'm in a different boat with a single shot NEF Handi-Rifle in .30-30; as I get proficient with handloading, I should be able to use spitzer type bullets since I don't have a tube mag that mandate the flat tip/round tip of factory .30-30 loadings; my vote is .30-30 since I can customize my loads later on

AKElroy
November 27, 2009, 12:43 AM
No choice for me. .30-30 all the way. With 150 gr CL's, I get 3.5 " of drop out to 200 yds. Sighted in 1.5" high @ 100, that is a zero hold over (MPBR) out to 225 yds; I rarely take a shot longer than that. Would never attempt it with a .44 mag.

millertyme
November 27, 2009, 02:22 AM
I've loaded Hornady 150gr spire pointed bullets for my 30-30 Marlin 336 (obviously I didn't load the tube). I loaded them a little hotter than listed with Hodgdon H4895 and they chronoed a bit over 2500fps. That turns the lowly 30-30 into a pretty remarkable and capable rifle. I could only load one round at a time, but that's all I think I'd need given the opportunity.

saturno_v
November 27, 2009, 04:01 AM
I could only load one round at a time, but that's all I think I'd need given the opportunity.


You no longer have this problem with the leverevolution bullets now available separately as components...however, technically, loaded with traditional spitzer bullets, a 30-30 lever is a 2 shots rifle (one in the chamber and one in the magazine), not single shot...:D

The Bushmaster
November 27, 2009, 09:23 AM
The one in the tubular magazine will be a "flat point" by the time it gets to the chamber.:D

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