Gas Piston AR-15's


PDA






sprice
November 21, 2009, 05:36 PM
I want to make a piston ar with a mega lower, upgraded pistol grip and stock, tactical sling, Smith Enterprise flash hider, grip-pod, midlength freefloat rail, with buis, scope, vltor gunfighter charging handle and stainless 1:7 or 1:8 twist 16'' barrel (and I'd prefer everything as close to milspec unless specified btw). What brands make an upper like this? Any links? The plan used to be get a bcm upper and then all the lower parts I need and buy a cmmg gas piston system. What will be the most inexpensive way to get this gun assembled and with all the specs on it I want?


So far the piston people I know of are Adams Arms, CMMG, lewis machine & tool, LWRC, Patriot Arms (pof), Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Osprey defense... Please comment on what you think of these manufacturers and any others you know of.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gas Piston AR-15's" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Nick Nasty
November 21, 2009, 06:15 PM
What's the point of gas-piston AR setups? Every modern-military rifle operating system except the AR uses a gas-piston system... why not just go with one of those?

sprice
November 21, 2009, 06:26 PM
it is more accurate and magazines/ other accesories are readily available, not to mention ease of operations and ammo...

Mags
November 21, 2009, 06:31 PM
The AR is more accurate because it is DI the piston may negate the accuracy but it will be cleaner. Remember the AR was not designed to be a piston set up. But if its what you want look into the CMMG setups.

sprice
November 21, 2009, 10:23 PM
Does anyone have ANY information or oppinions gas piston ar's?! Does anyone own one or have friends who own one/ know of the company's who make pistons for ar's?!?! If you do I'd love to have your help :)

ndh87
November 21, 2009, 10:43 PM
Sprice - I have a gas piston AR. It started out as a CMMG direct impingement gun. I put an Adams Arms piston conversion kit in it. There is almost no build up of carbon in the receiver now the bolt carrier and bolt stay cool which puts less stress on the extractor, spring and other small parts. The recoil impulse is a little sharper, but its just a quick tap. If you pair a piston kit with an enidine recoil buffer you get virtually no recoil.

I have also shot LWRC piston guns, they are very nice rifles. A little on the expensive side, but they are very well built.

Piston systems also make short barrel rifles function reliably.

EDIT: the easiest way to get a gun setup the way you want is to buy a stripped lower and a stripped upper and start building. DPMS sells barrels by themselves as well as parts kits, bolt carriers, etc. The one problem with piston kits is that they limit your selection of handguards. Tube style handguards will not fit on piston systems, i believe the Daniel Defense Omega rails were made to work with the Adams Arms kits. MagPul MOE handguards can be dremeled to fit as well.

dkk73
November 21, 2009, 10:50 PM
...
Piston systems also make short barrel rifles function reliably.

A mid-length gas system can also achieve that. Just a comment as this was a factor in some of my prior decisions.

I do not yet have a piston AR-15 but have used the .308 piston AR from POF. It functions extremely well. If you are interested in the POF AR-15's, I imagine they might be equally well-made (not cheap, which is why I don't have one).

ETA: I, too, am very curious if there are any clear winners in the retrofit category. Haven't heard anything bad about Adams Arms.

ndh87
November 21, 2009, 11:04 PM
The Adams Arms kit actually has 3 gas settings as well. Theres a full cutoff, essentially makes your gun a bolt action. A 50% setting designed for use with a suppressor and a full on setting for normal fire. They've got kits for full size, mid length and carbine length handguards.

sprice
November 22, 2009, 01:15 AM
I've heard of Titan hk416 clones. Anyone know about them?

seuss
November 22, 2009, 01:24 AM
Why not should be the question. Its seem this is just next gen in an extremely popular platform. Personally I cant wait to try one. And if i had the money i would buy one to and to the collection.

Avenger29
November 22, 2009, 02:07 AM
LMT is the one I'd go with, IF I was looking for a piston.

Why not should be the question. Its seem this is just next gen in an extremely popular platform. Personally I cant wait to try one. And if i had the money i would buy one to and to the collection.

Pistons are not all they are cracked up to be...they are simply the thing to have. No thanks for me.

sprice
November 22, 2009, 02:33 PM
nobody else eh?

Maj Dad
November 22, 2009, 04:34 PM
Right now the CMMG less-bolt assembly kit (but with their new design carrier) is the only one is stock at Brownell's, and the least expensive. I have seriously considered retrofitting my DPMS CAR; anyone used this particular kit? :scrutiny:

Brownell's link: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=30934/Product/AR_15_M16_GAS_PISTON_CONVERSION_KIT

Bartholomew Roberts
November 22, 2009, 05:11 PM
Quiz:

1. Name all the gas piston designs that use no frame rails for the bolt carrier group in the receiver and a tubular upper receiver.

2. How many of the names above are gas piston conversions/variants of the AR15?

longdayjake
November 22, 2009, 05:20 PM
I have shot a lot of DI ar15s. I have shot them in several different configurations and I have liked them all but loved a couple. My friend recently got a ruger ar. The piston system works and is very clean. I liked it for that reason. However, I don't think I could justify paying extra money for one as there is really no other benefit to them for me.

Also, whoever said that pistons are more accurate is mistaken.

sprice
November 22, 2009, 09:44 PM
ok I didn't mean more accurate than a di ar, I meant more accurate than an ak or fal piston rifle.

Mags
November 22, 2009, 10:34 PM
Bushmaster has piston kits on sale they look a little tougher as they include a bolt carrier designed for pistons instead of just the flat faced gas key.

alsaqr
November 23, 2009, 07:18 AM
In the latest issue of Rifleshooter magazine they tested the LWRC M6A2 14.5" barreled gun. The suggested retail price for that gun is $2,216. The scope was the Burris TAC-30. Average group size with Black Hills HPBT Match ammo was 1.2", Federal American Eagle 62 grain did 2.0", and Wolf did 3.0".

If this less than stellar accuracy is typical of gas piston ARs then I don't want one.

wally
November 23, 2009, 02:29 PM
So far I've very happy with my Ruger SR556. Got about 320 rounds through it all Wolf & Monarch steel cased ammo. Used about eight different AR mags and other than a couple failures to lock the bolt back on the last shot in the first hundred rounds I've had no issues.

Haven't cleaned it yet, just wipe down the out sides and put it back inthe safe for next time. Eventually I'll see how long it goes before needing cleaning but so far the bolt and receiver is way cleaner than my average AR after shooting 300 rounds of Russian ammo.

Accuracy seems as good as it gets with this ammo.

--wally.

carbine85
November 23, 2009, 05:54 PM
I'm waiting 2-3 years and see what pans out. From reports in the Army Times it's looking like the Army is seriously considering the piston guns. Some of these will shake out and others won't. I'm betting that 1 of the commercial manufacturers ends up with a contract.

Avenger29
November 23, 2009, 06:43 PM
From reports in the Army Times it's looking like the Army is seriously considering the piston guns.

The "Army Times" and one or two other similar publications writes about that old saw at least once a quarter.

I wouldn't read too much into it if I was you...

1858
November 23, 2009, 10:23 PM
sprice, I have two gas piston ARs both made by POF. I have a P-415 and P-308 with Leupold Mark 4s on both. I like 'em a lot. I also have a DSA FAL PARA which I bought so that I'd have a spare gas plug. ;)

:)

sprice
November 24, 2009, 09:45 PM
... :)

Darth AkSarBen
December 25, 2009, 12:06 AM
I have 2 gas piston rifles made by Izhmash, in Russia. One is .223 and the other is .308 Winchester Both are stellar shooters with the right ammo. Pizza Hut left over box, 5 shots at 100 yards with Remington PSP 150 gr Core LOKT bullets. Only cost me $14.99 at Dunhams too.
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/Saiga308/308_saiga_rem150psp.jpg I have targets of the .223 Saiga model, a Kalashnikov long piston model that shoots under 1/2" at 100 yards as well.

Avenger29
December 25, 2009, 12:29 AM
Hey, DarthAkSarBen, you need to post that target and details of your rifle in this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485140&page=9

While you aren't shooting a Mini or an AR, Krochus does not mind owners of other autoloading rifles posting in it as a comparison.

Quentin
December 25, 2009, 12:49 AM
LMT is the one I'd go with, IF I was looking for a piston.

I agree with Avenger29, LMT makes a great piston model. But I'm not in the market for one, what I have does the job fine, thank you.

Darth AkSarBen
December 25, 2009, 01:16 AM
Thanks Avenver29. I posted this in response to whether piston systems had less accuracy than DI rifles.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gas Piston AR-15's" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!