M77 or Vanguard


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RB98SS
November 21, 2009, 09:45 PM
I'm looking at purchasing a new .338 WM and I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles. Ruger M77 Hawkeye:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/42/42305.jpg

or Weatherby Vanguard Sporter:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/14/14677.jpg

They both fit my budget and are comparably priced, I think I'd be good with either, but I thought I'd throw it out for opinions from guys/gals that have 1st hand experiance.


Thanks, Gary

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R.W.Dale
November 21, 2009, 09:50 PM
I've owned both rifles in various chamberings. I vastly perfer the Ruger.

For the same price you get a CRF, integral scope mounts with rings, a bolt mounted 3 position safety and if it's important to you it's made in the USA

plus my ruger77's without exception were all EXCELLENT shooters. My howa/vanguards on the otherhand just shot.......? Well OK, not bad not great but merely OK

sleepyone
November 21, 2009, 10:24 PM
I've owned both rifles in various chamberings. I vastly perfer the Ruger.

For the same price you get a CRF, integral scope mounts with rings, a bolt mounted 3 position safety and if it's important to you it's made in the USA

plus my ruger77's without exception were all EXCELLENT shooters. My howa/vanguards on the otherhand just shot.......? Well OK, not bad not great but merely OK
I agree with krochus for all the same reasons. I like my M77 243 and plan on getting one in 308 as soon as I can save the money.

rbernie
November 21, 2009, 10:29 PM
I have also owned both and both are solid choices, but I will concur with Krochus that I prefer the Ruger.

The Ruger, while not the most svelte, is far lighter and better balanced than the VG. The Ruger also has a three-position safety that locks the bolt - the VG does not. For a field arm, those two criteria are pretty dang important to me.

I do prefer the stock on the VG much better than the Ruger, but that's not enough reason for it to edge out the Ruger.

longdayjake
November 21, 2009, 10:42 PM
I would choose the Ruger simply because I believe the bolt design to be much superior. Feeding and extraction are just so much more reliable. Atleast in my experience.

GooseGestapo
November 21, 2009, 11:07 PM
Just becasue I feel contrary tonight, I'm going to favor the Vanguard/Howa.

My Vanguard in .257wby is somewhat more accurate than my Ruger M77 in .257Roberts, and any other Ruger I've owned. (Several).

However, neither are perfect. The Vanguard trigger won't adjust below about 4lbs, and retains the drag and creep. The Ruger isn't adjustable, but can be gunsmithed lighter (I've done several) and become respectable. But then, I put a Timney on the Vanguard and it's respectable now, too.

It's really a personal thing.... But, my Ruger is lighter due to 2" shorter, lighter taper barrel. I actually like both, just not as much as a Remington Mod-7, but then again, I don't think I'd care for shooting a 6lb .338winmag. My .338/06 is a 9lb MkX Mauser, and it kicks enough, thankyou!

Maverick223
November 22, 2009, 02:09 AM
Make mine a Ruger please.

On a side note, I believe the M77 pictured is a Mk. II, not the Hawkeye. :)

Arkansas Paul
November 22, 2009, 02:16 PM
I love my Vangaurd, but I have never owned a Ruger. Never heard of anyone who didn't like them.

handle02
November 22, 2009, 04:05 PM
+1 for the ruger

RB98SS
November 22, 2009, 04:15 PM
On a side note, I believe the M77 pictured is a Mk. II, not the Hawkeye.

That may be, I just cut it from Bud's.

Looks like the consensus is the Ruger.

Thanks again for the feedback.

saturno_v
November 22, 2009, 04:48 PM
and if it's important to you it's made in the USA


Vanguard barrels are made in USA and the rifle is assembled in California.
Only the action is made by Howa, and I tend to trust the Japanese even more than US when it comes to manufacturing...
And Weatherby actually guarantee in print the accuracy of its rifles,which is something to consider.
Personally I prefer more the standard Rem 700 scope base for the Vanguard and I could not care less about CRF or push fed..I own rifles in both configurations and there is really no practical difference.

longdayjake
November 22, 2009, 05:36 PM
I could not care less about CRF or push fed..I own rifles in both configurations and there is really no practical difference.

Oh there's a difference. And for some its a big difference.

saturno_v
November 22, 2009, 05:37 PM
Not for me or for many other people....I do not plan to shoot upside down :D

Maverick223
November 22, 2009, 07:10 PM
Not for me or for many other people....I do not plan to shoot upside downNobody plans to shoot upside down. :D

jmr40
November 22, 2009, 08:11 PM
PF and CRF both feed equally well upside down or in any other position. The CRF will provide much more positive extraction and ejection in adverse conditions however. That is a factor whether I'm hunting Bambi or a 1500 lb bear.

saturno_v
November 22, 2009, 08:28 PM
PF and CRF both feed equally well upside down or in any other position.

That was one of the claim of the CRF worshippers...

The CRF will provide much more positive extraction and ejection in adverse conditions however.

I think we shoudl ook to a specifi platform rather than making a blanket statemens.

This debate has never be settled even by very experienced hunters....I would personally base my choice of a specific rifle on other things...

longdayjake
November 22, 2009, 08:34 PM
All I can say is what my personal experience was. I have had an ejector break on a vangaurd as well as had rounds pop out of the gun instead of feeding into the action. I just couldn't trust it to work every time.

rizbunk77
November 22, 2009, 08:37 PM
I have both, and each has its good points. You won't be disappointed with either, but the Ruger is a little more "american made"
My vanguard has an adjustable trigger that I have at about 4 lbs with no creep whatsoever.

sleepyone
November 22, 2009, 08:46 PM
From what I have read and been told by a very knowledgable gun maker, push feed rifles tend to be more accurate. I don't know if I agree with that statement based on my shooting experiences. Nonetheless, I have read that Winchester abandoned their CRF in 64 for push feed technology to compete with Remington. Remington had been building rifles faster and less expensively than Winchester for many years after WWII and Winchester finally had to start cutting corners in certain, or many, areas to remain competitive. Winchester's manufacturing process was slower and resulted in a better quality rifle, but the American public was starting to prefer price over quality; the consumerization of America I like to call it.

Statisticlly speaking, their push feed rifles did not have any more problems than their CRF versions, but many Winchester loyalists revolted at the very thought of owning a push feed rifle because of long-held beliefs and biases. I personally prefer CRF and other Mauser-type actions but that is how I started out and Remington, Howa, Weatherby etc. does not offer anything that I need that I can't get in a Winchester or Ruger.

Maverick223
November 22, 2009, 08:52 PM
I have had...rounds pop out of the gun instead of feeding into the action.Has also been my experience with several PF rifles, not a common occurrence (especially with quality actions), but it does occur. It is not a big factor for me with regards to most rifles (I prefer PF in target rifles and CRF in a dangerous game rifle...all others are mainly a factor of other features and overall quality), but CRF is more reliable all else being equal.

:)

saturno_v
November 22, 2009, 08:52 PM
I forgot to add.....in my opinion the Vanguard is a much better looking rifle....again, IMHO....I know it doesn't matter much to the functionality but I felt I had to say it, all else being equal.

ClayinAR
November 22, 2009, 08:58 PM
My brother owned a Vanguard many years ago. It was a Sako knockoff. Is that still the case?
CC

R.W.Dale
November 22, 2009, 10:20 PM
My brother owned a Vanguard many years ago. It was a Sako knockoff. Is that still the case?
CC



No it's more of a rem 700 knockoff.

WNTFW
November 23, 2009, 12:30 AM
My brother has both and was rather impressed by the Vangaurd. (Synthetic)
I have a Vanguard Sporter that shoots well in .270. (Wood) Impressive with handloads.
I find his Ruger to have phenominal bluing. Almost too pretty to use.

We both won the Vanguards & he bought the Ruger.

I know guys that never have any feeding issues on push feed & other guys seem to have nothing but problems.

Rem 700 knock off is true on the vanguard

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