Kel-tec Sub 2000 or Hi-point?


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ShootAndHunt
November 22, 2009, 12:44 AM
I get the itch to buy a 9mm carbine. After some search (not much effort, since not many choice available), I set my eyes on these two. Both are relatively cheap ($280 for hi-point and $360 for sub 2000). However, I cannot decide on these two. I went to a gun store to test handle these two. It seems to me that Hi-point has a better ergonomics when I shoulder it, flat-top for easily adding optics. On the other hand, Kel-tech feels so-so, materials seems inferior to the Hi-point, but I really like the feature that it could be folded in half, and takes the regular handgun mags. It seems the only way to decide is to shoot them both to seem how it feels, which is impossble! So I come to ask for opinions from you guys having either one of these two carbines. How do you feel about it? Any pros or cones? Which would you prefer?

Thanks,

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Logan80
November 22, 2009, 01:48 AM
I've got a Sub-2000. I've added a buttstock extension (helps the feel a LOT), bolt tube cover (cold steel isn't comfy), charging handle cover, a hogue rubber slip on grip, and recoil buffer. I'm waiting on a polymer quad rail forestock that's in development now, although KT makes a metal one that is semi available now (new/low production).

I love this gun! It's VERY fun to shoot. I got it in 9mm Glock configuration, and bought some 33 rnd Glock mags to go with it. Very fun to shoot, fairly accurate considering the crappy open sights it comes with (easily changed). I can't wait to get a decent red dot on it and then it will really be great.

Overall I have nothing negative to say about it really. Although if you're a lefty like me, you WILL get some gasses in your eyes if you aren't wearing glasses when you shoot...

Arcticfox
November 22, 2009, 05:01 AM
I personally did not like the feel of the sub 2000. Haven't fire one. I DID like the CX4 by Beretta. Good balance, good ergonomics.

outerlimit
November 22, 2009, 05:20 AM
Neither are a very high quality gun, but they work. I like that the Kel-tec folds in half, this may come in handy at times. Sounds like the CX4 is a little out of your price range?

I didn't realize the Hi-Point carbines were that expensive now. I remember them selling for $159 last time I took a look at one.

They still look like they're worth about a hundred and a half to me.

jonnyc
November 22, 2009, 10:01 AM
I've tried the KT and own a HP995. Get the 995 and put it into an ATI stock. Other than the limited mag capacity, it's the better choice.

ROCK6
November 22, 2009, 10:05 AM
I've fired a Hi-Point before, but don't own one so my experience is limited. Where my S2K feels less robust, the Hi-Point literally feels like a 2x4! I didn't care for the looks and the trigger is just as bad as my S2K, but it actually fired well with no jams. I didn't care for their magazines either. If Hi-Point started using popular pistol mags, it would be much better.

As to my S2K; well, I really like it. I originally purchased it for a get-home-gun that could be packed discreetly, same mags as my CCW (it was a Sig P228 at the time) but give me a little more accurate range.

I to have upgraded with a Kydex tube cover/cheek weld and the best upgrade was the Blue Force front sight post assembly which is aluminum and AR compatible. The trigger is the only issue and that just needs some work, but other than that this is a great little carbine that is very light, compact and accurate. To my surprise my Sig version also reliably feeds CZ mags which I have several of. I do have and carry Glocks and personally think anybody that has a Glock (19/17 or 22/23) should really consider adding this to their armory. I've never had any feeding or reliability issues and mine has been tossed around and dropped a couple of times, so the fear of it being less robust is now moot.

The S2K is just a little more versatile and definitely more interesting with the folding feature.

ROCK6

Speedo66
November 22, 2009, 10:06 AM
Which one folds and takes common magazines?

They both are reliable and accurate. To me the above makes all the difference.

Carne Frio
November 22, 2009, 10:31 AM
The Keltec folds and can be had in a variety of mag types.

billib
November 22, 2009, 10:42 AM
Never shot a high point, but mave many rounds thru s2k, 9mm glock grip. I wouln't think of letting it go. A friend just bought a 40, had to buy a glock to match, broke them in this weekend, no failures. I haven't gone there, yet. 33 round mags are a blast. May pick up one with the S&W grip so i can use my 5906 mags if i see one somewhere.

AbNo
November 22, 2009, 03:59 PM
I've had a Hipoint Carbine for a couple of years now. It's been pretty good.

A friend of mine just got one a month or so ago, in the new style with the fancy rails and everything. She seems to like it. I haven't had a chance to try the new style yet.

I do agree on the HP mags, though. Never did care for 'em much, but they work.

(Mine's the lower, older one)

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7040/hpim2256.th.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/hpim2256.jpg/)

X-Rap
November 22, 2009, 04:15 PM
The mag and folding thing really seals the deal for me, I personally wouldn't look at a Hi Point for those reasons.

Yondering
November 22, 2009, 04:48 PM
Here's a youtuber's 3 Rifle Carbine Review. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRavtUA9gMs)
It's a comparison of the Hi-Point, Beretta, & Kel-Tec Sub 2000.

I went with the G19, Kel-Tec Sub 2000.

Domino
November 22, 2009, 06:27 PM
The Sub 2000 is no doubt the better gun of the two. Not only is the gun lighter and more versatile but in my experience it is more reliable than the High Point. I have fired at least 3 HP carbines and all of them had failures with various ammunition while my S2k is 100% reliable even with steel cased ammunition.

ShootAndHunt
November 25, 2009, 03:41 PM
Thanks guys for all your inputs!

I know that Beretta Storm is a better carbine, but I just want a fun gun on this type, and don't intend to spend a lot to buy, since I get some other stuff that I have to buy.

wnycollector
November 25, 2009, 06:22 PM
Another vote for the sub2k. I have the .40/glock mag flavor and LOVE IT! ~1500 trouble free rounds through it thus far. I can keep all 15 rounds on a 5.5" bullseye target at 50 yards, with all shots in the"A" and "C" areas of a IPSC silhouette at 100 yards.

As others have said the sub2k folds in 1/2 making it a wonderful travel companion (mine travels with my family every vacation). I carry mine in a laptop case with four 15 round mags.

If the hipoint's were still $150-160, I would say hipoint...but with an $80 difference, the KT is a smarter choice IMOO.

mgkdrgn
November 26, 2009, 08:57 PM
Thanks guys for all your inputs!

I know that Beretta Storm is a better carbine, but I just want a fun gun on this type, and don't intend to spend a lot to buy, since I get some other stuff that I have to buy.

Don't get in a big hurry ... you'll have trouble finding either one at the moment. None of the distributors I deal with have any (at least w/o lasers and such that run the price into the $400 range wholesale)

PT1911
November 26, 2009, 09:00 PM
Sub 2k once again.. I think they are just plain cool...

I also suggest the mech tech conversions if you already have a compatable gun... that are awesome.

John Wayne
November 26, 2009, 09:17 PM
Hi Point!

I've owned two S2K's, had problems with both of them. Also had problems with the only other Kel-Tec product I owned, a P3AT. The Subs felt like they were going to fly apart every time I shot them, and had a lot more recoil than any pistol-caliber carbine ought to.

My Hi-Point is ugly, ugly, and more ugly, but it shoots great. No issues of any kind.

If you want a gun that does cool things like fold up and accepts hi-cap mags, get the Kel-Tec. If you want something to actually shoot, with metal sights that won't fall off, get a Hi Point.

PT1911
November 26, 2009, 09:22 PM
I felt the quality of the kel tec sub 2k was very good. sure it is unconventional but that is kind of the point. I found it to be a pleasure to shoot and was extremely surprised at the accuracy from this little carbine.

aubie515
November 27, 2009, 11:28 AM
The Hi Points may lack higher capacity, but overall they shoot better than the S2K. This is coming from owners of both.

Having owned three S2Ks and one HP, I'd say HP if you are on a budget and want the most accurate carbine for an inexpensive price.

If you want something for SHTF....definately the S2K since you can get 33rd mags and it can be combined with a Gloc 19/17. The folding feature is also very useful in SHTF as well.

Handgunner
November 27, 2009, 06:20 PM
I really like my 995 especially since I added the ATI and red dot, but if the price difference was only $80, I'd look hard at the Kel-Tec. I would like to own both. :D

mcdonl
December 7, 2009, 08:48 AM
I like the Hi-Point, but I own one. I would love to own the Keltec Sub 2K too, because I like thier guns too....

Out of the box, 995TS off the shoulder at 25 yards....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mcdonl/IMG00549.jpg

Out of the box, 995TS on the bench at 25 yards....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mcdonl/IMG00550.jpg

$450 worth of guns :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mcdonl/IMG00551.jpg

stubbicatt
December 7, 2009, 09:06 AM
How about Ruger Camp Carbine (used)? Not on your list but a better carbine, IMO.

JShirley
December 7, 2009, 10:41 AM
Neither are a very high quality gun, but they work

Which begs the question, what defines quality?

Walkalong
December 7, 2009, 11:04 AM
Very happy with my Sub-2000. The plastic mag catch wore out and Kel-Tec sent me a steel replacement. No issues since then. Handy, accurate, reliable.

mcdonl
December 7, 2009, 11:25 AM
Which begs the question, what defines quality?

To me: Reliabilty relative to the intended job. By this I mean, if you are buying a gun to go fight a war in a desert, it needs to be able to handle such conditions and soot everytime you pull the trigger.

Ergonomics - It should be comfortable to shoot in it's intended environment. If you are taking a gun to battle, it needs to carry and shoot well. If you are taking it to the range, or using it for HD... it can be heavier then a battle rifle.

Accuracy - It needs to shoot better then the operator. Period. If you are missing your target because the gun does not shoot straight then the accuracy is bad. As with quality and ergonomics if you are in battle, the gun needs to hit it's target... period. If you are plinking, meh... who cares. If it is a competition gun then thats a whole different matter.

Cost - This depends on it's reliability. If the gun is expected to go to Battle, the need for reliability is going to be greater, hence the cost is going to be greater. If you can deal with a FTL/FTE every few hundred rounds then you can expect to pay less.

So, if I can deal with a misfire every few hundred yards, and the gun is comfortable then TO ME - IN MY OPINION I would rather spend $225 for a brand new gun then $400 +....

Looks, brand and history mean NOTHING to me when it comes to a firearm.

Great question Jshirley! I can't wait to see the answes!

KBintheSLC
December 7, 2009, 08:21 PM
The price you are quoting for the HP is too high. I see them lightly used around here for $150-$175 regularly and new for $200-$225. I prefer the KT due to the better mag availability and cross-compatibility as well as the folding feature. The KT has a pretty lousy trigger and the front sight is a beast to adjust. Other than that, I believe it is made to a higher standard of quality compared to the HPC.

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