Why all the hate for the P22?


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ricebasher302
November 25, 2009, 05:13 PM
It seems now that after all the hype and sales of Walther P22's has died down, the general consesus is that they're nothing more than a low quality plinker. I understand that the early models had some issues, that the slide is pot metal, and that they mis-feed once in a while like most .22 auto pistols, and it dislikes certain ammo.

However, from my perspective, it IS a plinker, does not possess the quality you'd want or expect in a duty or carry pistol, but the cost is low, it's one-of-a-kind in it's market. I've put about 7,000 rounds through mine without ANY unexpected issues. It's accurate, fun as heck to shoot and lightweight. It has been one of the best purchases I've made, because after 7,000 rounds, I'm a pretty good pistol shot. It opened the door for my later auto pistol purchases.

Am I wrong? Did I get one of the few that were worth a crap?

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fireside44
November 25, 2009, 05:24 PM
However, from my perspective, it IS a plinker, does not possess the quality you'd want or expect in a duty or carry pistol, but the cost is low, it's one-of-a-kind in it's market.

Low cost? I can get a stainless Interarms Rossi for that kind of money and shoot .38s through it.

It has been one of the best purchases I've made, because after 7,000 rounds, I'm a pretty good pistol shot. It opened the door for my later auto pistol purchases.

Am I wrong? Did I get one of the few that were worth a crap?

None of them are worth a crap IMO, but they work. I had one and traded for a Smith. Couldn't believe the guy who wanted it. I didn't question his motives. He has about 8k down the pipe total and it still runs like a champ. Eats anything, rarely if ever jams.

I think they will work just fine and then one day you will be left with a useless, broken, junk gun when that zinc slide and associated stuff comes unglued. They are what they are, a disposable plinker. Bic lighter of the firearms world.

At least, that's how I see it. If you are happy with it, who cares what others think though? I like Rossi's, plenty of guys think they are junk. Doesn't stop me.:)

Avenger29
November 25, 2009, 05:24 PM
I don't "hate" the P22. I do dislike it and it could have been a much better gun.

The Walther P22 and the Sig Mosquito (and the Colt .22 rifle that looks like an AR-15) are firearms that are low quality weapons produced or licensed by companies that are known for high quality. Really, how much effort would it have taken to produce a higher quality .22 pistol that would have been worthy of the brand name on the side? A .22 pistol that wouldn't be identified as a problematic design with a simple google search?

I do not reward companies for turning out POS by buying said example of POS. You were lucky in that you got a firearm that has been reliable. It may break within the next 1000 rounds, or never. My luck, I would have purchased one that wouldn't have made it through a brick of ammo.

For me, I expect my firearms to last through my lifetime. I expect them to be in a fine condition for me to hand down to my children. Hence, I buy stuff that is known for high reliability, durability, and quality.

Bovice
November 25, 2009, 05:26 PM
The reason people don't like the P22 is probably the same reason they don't like .22 automatics to begin with. They're not completely reliable. I don't really like the P22, but it has nothing to do with it being unreliable. The top of the hammer comes up too high and messes with my sight picture. The grip is also much too small for me, and it's probably the case for any male with average to large sized hands.

If I were going to get a .22 to use for practice, I'd get a conversion for a centerfire pistol. That way, it's more like the real deal in terms of handling.

The originally released P22 was a piece of garbage. The lack of proper materials science was the cause, which to me, as an engineer, is an inexcusable mistake. It's simple to test materials for hardness, fracture toughness, and any other characteristic that would be of consequence. It's a mistake that the manufacturers have made time and time again, and I'm not sure why. But then again, its only a .22, you can't expect too much out of it. For a plinker, I'd steer more towards a Ruger MkIII or the Browning Buckmark.

senior
November 25, 2009, 05:34 PM
Bought one several years ago to use as a cheap to feed plinker. After a few trips to the range and spnding wayyy to much time fooling with it, last trip still jaming so on the way home stopped at a lake, tried to see how many "skips" it would make sailing across the water; even FAILED doing that!!

The Lone Haranguer
November 25, 2009, 05:35 PM
... does not possess the quality you'd want or expect in a duty or carry pistol ...

That does it for me. Especially coming from a company that built its reputation on high quality (and accompanying expense) firearms. And it isn't that cheap, either. If I want a zinc slide on a $300+ pistol, I'll buy two Hi-Points. :neener: That kind of money will get you a lower end model of the Ruger or Browning pistols, which are high quality pistols that will last a lifetime.

NMGonzo
November 25, 2009, 05:40 PM
I only took cheap ammo and I had a failure every shot.

gotta try something hotter, or it is becoming a target for the .44

Omaha-BeenGlockin
November 25, 2009, 05:41 PM
Why spend money on a POS when you can spend the same money on a quality Ruger or Browning??

Kingofthehill
November 25, 2009, 05:51 PM
Ive had 2, 1 sucked, 1 was great!... go figure.

but this right here

it's one-of-a-kind in it's market

Makes no sense... how is it 1 of a kind? Mosquito, Neo, Buckmark, Ruger.... and several others.

JOe

ricebasher302
November 25, 2009, 05:55 PM
These are all good points. I would imagine that this is not going to be a firearm that I'll be handing down to the grandchildren. I suppose, for the cost, a few more quality materials could have been used to ensure better longevity. These are the types of answers I was hoping for, though. It helps to get a different perspective, and I can't say I disagee with anyone in particular. Thanks guys.

ricebasher302
November 25, 2009, 05:57 PM
King, what I meant was that, before the Mosquito came out, the P22 was the only scaled down (looking) version of a full-size automatic. I think most will admit to liking the looks of it at least. Is that a reason to buy it? Maybe, maybe not.

Joeywhat
November 25, 2009, 06:04 PM
People dislike it because it costs too much (dealers fault, possibly Walther, too) and because they expect it to look and feel like a $500 gun.

It's a .22...don't expect it to be made out of high quality steel. I bought mine for $250 new (a while ago). Now I see them going for $350-ish. I don't know if that's the dealers trying to scrape some extra cash or Walther...but it's too much money for what you get.

Mine was a tack driver. Wish I hadn't sold it.

ricebasher302
November 25, 2009, 06:19 PM
Yea, I bought mine when they were cheaper too. I guess $350 and up is a lot for a zinc gun.

Publius1688
November 25, 2009, 06:58 PM
I was disapointed in mine because with the Walther name, I expected more----and paid more, too.
Gave it away.

Joe Demko
November 25, 2009, 07:12 PM
If I were in the market for a reliable .22 plinker that would last several lifetimes, I would seek out one of the all-steel Rugers. I have an early 70's vintage example here with skinny 4 inch barrel and fixed sights. I've put many tens of thousands of rounds through it over the years. It's still going strong and still shoots where it is aimed.

w_houle
November 25, 2009, 08:28 PM
Just came from my local gun store and both it and the Mosquito were tagged $399

RockyMtnTactical
November 25, 2009, 08:56 PM
I bought mine thinking it was a plinker and I would be ok if it has some failures but the failures were so frequent I simply couldn't keep it. If there is one thing I hate, it is an unreliable gun. I never keep unreliable guns.

CornCod
November 25, 2009, 09:42 PM
My P22 works just as long as I feel it CCI Mini-mags and similar hyper-velocity rounds. I realize this limits the P22's usefulness. Still, within its limitations, its a fun little plinker.

w_houle
November 25, 2009, 09:44 PM
the failures were so frequent I simply couldn't keep it
Can you elaborate just a hair more? Did it fail to feed, chamber, fire, extract, or eject? How often did these problems occur and did it seem they happened in a cycle or at a certain round count into the magazine?

atomd
November 25, 2009, 09:46 PM
It's a .22...don't expect it to be made out of high quality steel.

Other .22 pistols and revolvers are made from much higher quality materials for the same price or less. Just being a .22 doesn't mean anything. The P22 and the Mosquito seem to be hated about equally. Personally, I would never buy either. But look at it this way, this leaves the market wide open for a similar style (scaled down version of an existing service caliber pistol) .22 but one that's better. I left out some of the conversion-type of guns like the Kadet, etc since they aren't designed as a .22 from the ground up. I think some other manufacturers should get into the game with pistols like the P22. Heck, lots of people buy the P22 despite the problems.

Joeywhat
November 25, 2009, 09:58 PM
Better how?

They work - assuming you don't try running the crappiest, low velocity ammo out there. Run Mini Mags through it for the first 500 and have at it with bulk stuff after that. It's a semi auto, it'll be ammo sensitive. Don't see too many 9mm or .45 autos that run well with powderpuff loads.

I'd bet a dollar that 90% of issues with the gun are a lack of breaking it in or bad magazines. Make sure you get the new style magazines, not old.

I had two of these and have shot countless others - they run. If they don't it's because the user is too impatient to get it to run properly. If that's not your style then don't buy it. If it still doesn't run after all that send it back...wouldn't be the first gun to have issues right out of the box.

Furthermore...make the gun out of better materials and the price suddenly goes up...who's going to buy a $400 all steel P22? Not me...especially when the cheaper version works just fine.

SharpsDressedMan
November 25, 2009, 10:03 PM
Because they should have made it exactly like the p99 - with a decock instead of a goofy safety, of higher quality materials, the same size, with part interchangeablility (except for those required by the cartridge differences). The full size of the p99 is still compact enough, and having a full size "trainer" would have sold the gun better. Want a smaller .22? Get the Walther PP or PPK.

RockyMtnTactical
November 25, 2009, 10:27 PM
Can you elaborate just a hair more? Did it fail to feed, chamber, fire, extract, or eject? How often did these problems occur and did it seem they happened in a cycle or at a certain round count into the magazine?

Let's just say, all of the above. Sorry.

It really was that bad for me, although I only shot bulk ammo through mine. But I didn't want a firearm that couldn't shoot bulk .22LR.

http://www.minutemanreview.com/2008/08/my-experience-with-walther-p22.html

Trigun
November 25, 2009, 10:38 PM
Hmmm I may just throw in my 0.2 cents. Anyhow I bought a NIB p22 three years after they launched the market, that should be the second or third generation. Right out the box, eat everything and never got a single jam, I was so happy and told everyone that I knew. Meanwhile **** happened, I was at the Range and start show off the P22, after about 150 rounds, something fly out and the barrel weight(compensator) start jump off, opps it was the screw fly out, spent over one hour and able to found that tiny little screw and put the stuff back together and try again, then the barrel nut start loose. And that gun only last about 1800 rounds and the slide start chip off here and there. I quickly bring the gun in for warrenty and trade into a Ruger Mark III 2245. Now if this p22 or mosquito was made by Norinco, everyone will jump on the topic and say that is a piece of **** but now these guns were made by Sig and Walther, then some people will say it was the ammo problem. Anyhow what I tried to say is why Ruger can make something that can last and eat all kind os ammo and Sig, Walther don't even able to make a simple .22? oh by the way isn't the Sig's newer .22 convertion kit don't have the last shot slide lock open function?

Trigun

gc70
November 25, 2009, 11:42 PM
The P22 is a relatively cheap .22 for gosh sakes.

After my wife had reconstructive surgery on her shooting hand, she started back to shooting with a Ruger Mk II (KMK512). She soon found the Ruger was too heavy to shoot while her hand was healing and, to my horror, bought a P22. Like the Ruger, she had to try a variety of bulk ammo in the P22 until she found a brand it liked, but it has never fired a single round of high velocity ammo. It is not a target pistol or a self defense gun, but it is a fun plinker and trainer. It serves its purpose and that is all that really matters.

Avenger29
November 26, 2009, 12:03 AM
"Just a .22"

That argument don't fly. I've got .22s that are made of centerfire gun quality materials with centerfire gun quality and it is very much worth the slight cost premium. My S&W Model 34-1 kitgun. My CZ 452. Highly accurate, solid guns.

My run of the mill Ruger Mark III 22/45 just keeps right on ticking with Federal and Winchester bulk.

The .22 is a great cartridge and deserves to be fired from a quality gun that you aren't swearing at.

If I wanted a potmetal .22, I'd buy a Jennings for $50. For the cost of a Walther, I want something at least as reliable as a Ruger 22/45 and as durable. The Ruger 22/45 only cost me $200, btw, so for $100-150 less than the Walther P22, I got something much better.

Craig M. Arnold
November 26, 2009, 08:39 PM
Why spend money on a POS when you can spend the same money on a quality Ruger or Browning??

+1. Both Ruger and Buckmarks are so much better pistols than the P22 it not even funny.

I had so much trouble with my P22, I sent it back. I got a brand new one because the original one couldn't be fixed. The second one was almost as bad as the first one. The P22 is one of the few guns that I do hate, at least the two that I had.

Best regards.

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