.380 Revolver?


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PMJR
November 26, 2009, 09:46 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows of a gun maker that makes a .380 cal. revolver. I can find autos and out of production revolvers, such as the navy .380 revolver, but no new production revolvers, maybe there are no such animals around. If you are wondering why a .380 revolver, well, I have two other .380 s and I'd like to have a good revolver to round out the assortment, I also have larger and smaller caliber pistols. Thanks.

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RevolvingGarbage
November 27, 2009, 12:21 AM
The Russian R-92 was made in both 9x18mm and .380 (9x17mm browning)
http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/hg223-e.htm
You won find one here in the U.S though.

Just an interesting specimen :)

sub-moa
November 27, 2009, 12:37 AM
When you say you've found "out of production" .380 revolvers are you referring to the various British made (since the 1920s) Webley/Enfield and US S&W made, for the British in WWII, "Lend-Lease" .380 revolvers?

Those .380 revolvers actually chamber a British version of the 1870s US .38 S&W, also called the .38/200. The Brits designated and packaged the ammunition as "Revolver .380" MkI, MKII or MKIIz if IIRC. It is a traditional rimmed revolver round and not the rimless .380acp/9x17mm/9mmKurz/9mmCorte/9mmCorto you find in various Colt 1908/Walther/Mauser/Sauer/Beretta/P3AT yadayadayada semiautomatic pistols. BTW, IIRC again, the .38S&W runs at pressures pushing 15K while the .380 runs considerably higher, like 20K plus.

Don't know of any revolvers built specifically for the .380acp cartridge though I suppose you might get away with stuffing .380s in a 9mmP S&W 547 or 940...but to what purpose I wouldn't know ;)...

mp510
November 27, 2009, 01:04 AM
Charter's to-be-released 9mm is supposed to handle .380 too.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/11/20/new-charter-arms-rimless-revolver-carr/

The Charter Arms website says that they should be available in early 2010.

BHP FAN
November 27, 2009, 01:18 AM
HMMM...let's totally eliminate the ONE really cool thing about auto caliber revolvers...the moon clips!

jimbo1096
November 27, 2009, 01:37 AM
I believe Ruger made the speed six in .380 (actually 38S&W)as an export gun and examples show up ocassionally but they aren't cheap. Just an interesting side note. One on auction site right now- not mine.
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8825559&oh=216543

PMJR
November 27, 2009, 02:15 AM
WOW ! Thanks for the terrific responses. You kind and knowledgable folks gave me something to look forward to as well as look up some good material. I do realize that a moon clip will have to be utilized if I use the .380 ACP. Who knows, maybe somebody will come up with a cylinder that has some kind o built in spring clip of some kind to hold the cartridges. At any rate thank you all.....PMJR

BHP FAN
November 27, 2009, 03:27 AM
Let's NOT get rid of the moon clips...they're faster than speed loaders and keep your brass together.A small simple tool is all that's need to clip up or unclip ammo. The moon clip revolvers are some of my favorites.There is even a company that converts standard caliber revolvers to moon clips. Too cool.

Radagast
November 27, 2009, 07:53 AM
Smith & Wesson made a 9mm parabellum revolver, the 547 that used a special extractor star.
http://www.vintagepistols.com/range_report_S&W_547.html

MCgunner
November 27, 2009, 11:06 AM
Charter's to-be-released 9mm is supposed to handle .380 too.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...revolver-carr/

I'm wondering how they do that. .380 is smaller in diameter in the case, very slightly, and I'd expect ruptured cases if chambered in a 9x19.

bhp9mm
November 27, 2009, 01:53 PM
there was a gun called the Medusa Model 47 made by Phillips & Rodgers inc that could shoot 38special 357mag 9mm 380 it looked kind of like a k frame smith and wesson and u did not have to use moon clips

unspellable
November 29, 2009, 01:16 PM
If you just HAVE to have moon clips, there is a wildcat cartridge called the 44 Jaguar that is essentially a rimless 44 Magnum (similar to the old 44 Automag, but closer to the 44 Mag than the Automag actually was.) that was used with moonclips in a shaved 44 Mag revolver. The intent was for the pin shooting game where reloading time counts. The standard bullet for the cartridge had a saw tooth edged hollow point to snag the pin with a glancing shot.

(Imagine what the anti-gun crowd would do with that if they saw it.)

Nicodemus38
November 29, 2009, 11:26 PM
i thought the 38 sw had a larger diamater case as well as larger bullet diameter then the 9mm did. And wasnt the old Federal pathfinder ammo, rimmed 9mm, get discontinued because it could chamber in some 38 sw chambers and blow said gun up?

Radagast
November 29, 2009, 11:47 PM
9mm Federal was available for a limited period for the Charter Arms Pit Bull and was apparently withdrawn due to the fact it can chamber in some .38 S&W guns.

PMJR
December 2, 2009, 04:38 AM
OK..So I've gotten a lot of good info and looked up some stuff. Now I've got more questions, including my origial question, does anybody make a new .380 revolver with or without using moon clips ? The charter arms revolvers were sounding good until I read another forum here in the revolver section, that was putting down some charter arms pistols. Is there any other gun maker that is going to come out with a .380 revolver ? I really don't mind using moon clips, I just want a new .380 revolver to go with my other pistols. Thanks for your inputs.

bhp9mm
December 2, 2009, 05:32 PM
why a 380 over a 9mm revolver

DrakeGmbH
December 2, 2009, 08:34 PM
I keep spotting this thread in the list and I can't help but think of the Enfield and Webley revolvers every time. What the hell, here's a few photos of .380 Revolver ammo.

A few comparisons with .38 S&W, 9x19 and 9x18. Some Dominion wartime ammo (DC 43) in a 12 round box, Dominion postwar ammo (DC 56) in a 50 round box, some FN ammo in plastic 30 round cartons and Charter Industries Singapore (CIS) ammo in 12 round boxes. These are all .380 Revolver Mark IIZ (also seen as 2Z). The Z (zed) indicates the cartridge is loaded with nitrocellulose propellant rather than the older cordite.

Nicodemus38
December 2, 2009, 10:38 PM
the only known revolver chambered in .380 revolver (38 sw, 38/200, etc) since smith and wesson stopped producing the terrier and victory models was Rugers limited production run of GP100s in it for overseas police department. Not many were made and not many are in america.
Its not easy to find one of the .380 chambered gp100s, but when i did i was qouted atleast 800 for the guy to part with it. Its alot easier to find the GP100s with "38 spcl" on the barrel.

DrakeGmbH
December 3, 2009, 12:04 AM
Well it's not like vintage .380 revolvers are terribly hard to find - nor expensive. I paid under $300 for my Webley Mark IV and Enfield No2 MkI** (the DAO model). I found an older unmodified No2 MkI that retains single action - those fetch considerably higher since the vast majority were 'updated' by installing DAO hammers. Enfield produced the No2 MkI into the late 1950's and Webley produced the Mark IV until the late 1970's. Very fun shooters but the available .38 S&W is a bit too light and tends to print about 3" low at 10 yards - surplus MkIIz hits point of aim if you can find it.

Pictured here is the Webley Mark IV (1942) and Enfield No2 MkI (1937).

stiab
December 3, 2009, 12:36 AM
Clark Brothers gun shop in Warrenton Va once had a NIB version of the Ruger revolver in .380, complete with foreign police markings. It may be gone now, of course, but you could google them and get contact info.

106rr
December 3, 2009, 04:29 AM
Ruger filled a contract (500 guns ?)with India for 38S&W revolvers. The Brits refer to these as 380s. I believe they were Security Six models.

kle
December 3, 2009, 02:22 PM
I'm wondering how they do that. .380 is smaller in diameter in the case, very slightly, and I'd expect ruptured cases if chambered in a 9x19.

I've shot .380 out of my late Taurus 905, 9mm snubby revolver. I didn't have any issues with ruptured cases (of course, I didn't do it all that often, but it was neat to know that I could).

PMJR
December 3, 2009, 02:50 PM
Hi Folks, I don't get back to the computer often enough to answer promptly to some questions. The reason for a .380 pistol ? I've got two .380 autos now and if I could find a new .380 revolver that I could use the same cartridges, with or without moon clips, I wouldn't have to have different ammo with me when I go out to shoot, also makes it easy for reloading your own ammo. I also have a 9mm auto I dearly love to shoot and wouldn't mind a 9mm revolver eventually. If Charter Arms comes out with revolvers, that are reliable, they sound like the source for both. I don't mind the idea of moon clips at all, I just need a revolver to use them with...Thanks again for the in-put, this is a great place to glean a lot of knowledge from...I am looking into the other responses also, thanks.

DWFan
December 3, 2009, 03:16 PM
It might be a bit expensive to do, but a Dan Wesson M15-2 can be fitted with a .22 cylinder that you can rechamber to .380. You could use the .357" barrel or have a .355" barrel turned for it. It's possible that Ranch Products may make a moon-clip that could be used for it.
You might also look at the EAA Bounty Hunter as I believe the all the cylinders for these single actions have the same dimensions regardless of caliber. The six-round .22 cylinder, (they also make an eight-round model), might fit in a .357 Magnum and give you a dual caliber six-gun similar to the 9mm/.357 Ruger Blackhawk Convertible.

Radagast
December 4, 2009, 05:19 AM
Drake:
I had the same thing with my South African Police MKIV, rounds would hit point of aim with the old dominion ammo and around 3 inches low with Winchester LRN.
I shot off what was probably the last box of Dominion .380 Revolver in Australia and only managed to find 2 boxes of Winchester in 12 months at $55 a box. So I've put it on consignment and gone back to S&Ws in more common calibers.

Interesting comment about IIz being a smokeless military round, the Australian issue 9mm para round is MK2z. The more things change the more they stay the same.

PMJR:
Sorry for hijacking your thread. At the moment I'm not aware of any .380 ACP capable revolver other than the Medusa and they are scarce as hen's teeth.
If you haunt the various auction sites you will find the occasional 9mm parabellum revolver for sale, such as the S&W 547. There is one for sale here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149043148

Others to look for are the Taurus 905. S&W 940, Ruger SP101 and Ruger blackhawk convertible. Apparently the Taurus would shoot .380 ACP using moon clips, but the moon clips are rather poor quality and new ones may not be available.
Just expect to pay through the nose for one due to the small number available as they are all discontinued in 9mm.

Or you can wait for the Charter rimless revolver. At the moment it's vapourware however, as the original announcement was for availability in the first quarter 2009, now it's 'early 2010'. Charter Arms has gone broke and been revived a couple of times, and their reputation for quality has always been variable. I personally would wait till a gunshop has one in stock and inspect it thoroughly, rather than ordering one in.

DrakeGmbH
December 5, 2009, 01:26 AM
Radagast: (further derailment)
It is a bit of a coincidence that the final issue form of both cartridges was a MkIIz. The 9m/m MkIIz was devloped sometime in 1944 (based on the cartridge dates I have). Here's a few photos of British-made 9m/m MkIz and MkIIz. The H^N headstamp is for the Royal Ordnance Factory in Hirwaun, South Wales. It was set up during WWII to supplement ammunition production from 1939 to 1945.

Mark Iz was very similar to other 9mm loadings - muzzle velocity was around 1200 fps with a 115gr bullet.

Mark IIz was developed to feed Sten and Lanchester guns. It was loaded hotter than the MkIz - around 1300fps. It replaced the MkIz as the standard pistol cartridge in the Browning Hi Power pistol as well. It's interesting to note the MkI projectiles do not attract a magnet, but the MkII's do. I have a box of MkI from Feb 1944 and they are not magnetic either.

As you may know, the .380 Revolver Mark I introduced in the 1920's loaded a 200gr soft lead bullet - a rather long, blunt-nosed projectile. This was replaced with the jacketed Mark II bullet and weight was reduced to 178gr. The Mark IIz was introduced in in the 1930's. I have a handful of different .380 MkIIz's but haven't got my hands on a MkI (.38/200) yet. I have a .38 Super Police cartridge which is identical aside from case color and headstamp.

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