waavy results


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exabrial
November 27, 2009, 06:02 PM
I'm reloading for the first time ever... My dad won an RCBS press about 15 years ago and never opened it and he's letting me break it out. I bought the carbide die set and a case primer for a .45acp.

My problem is, the results are producing cases that have 'waves' in them. The are straight at the top where the bullet is, but then they shrink a little and fatten out before slimming back down by the base of the case. I don't have my digital camera with me, so please just bear along and use your imagination.

I'm tried lengthing and shortening the amout I'm flaring the case tip, but that doesn't seem to help. Does anyone have any advice? Thank you!!!

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dardascastbullets
November 27, 2009, 06:08 PM
Hi Ex!

Your problem is indicative of applying an excessive amount of case lube and quite possibly plugged bleed holes in the sizer die. You only need to apply a very, very thin film of lubricant (assuming that you are using the proper lubricant).

You will realize great results (I am sure) once you have applied the correct amount of lubricant and have verified that the bleed holes are clear.

juk
November 27, 2009, 06:17 PM
I thought you didn't use lube with the carbide dies?

steve4102
November 27, 2009, 06:23 PM
Lube dents as described above only occur in bottle neck cartridges. If you are using carbide 45acp dies no need to lube. If your "waves" are from the bullet, it's normal.

rg1
November 27, 2009, 06:23 PM
That is perfectly normal and is the result of using a carbide die with a carbide sizing ring. The .45ACP case has a slight taper and the carbide sizing ring sizes the case like it is a straight wall case. You will get the effect you're describing with carbide dies and tapered cases such as 45acp, 9MM, and some others. An all steel sizer die is tapered to match the taper of the brass case while the carbide sizes one dimension all the way down. You still have the correct diameters at the mouth of the case and at the head. I like to see the bulge just under the bullet as this is a good indication that the bullets are being gripped tightly by the case.

ljnowell
November 27, 2009, 06:26 PM
I want to say that depending on how bad it may be normal. I know that when I take cases fired in my glock and resize them the resizer will only size so far to the base of the brass. That leaves a little wave at the bottom. Then, when I flare and seat a lead bullet, it bulges just a little bit. Then it looks like a wave going across the case. I have loaded and shot several 10's of thousands of 45acp like that. No worries.

jfh
November 27, 2009, 06:32 PM
We need more info:

1. What dies are you using--brand; 3-die set or 4-die? How did you set up the crimp?

2. What kind of bullets are you using? (swaged-cast-plated-jacketed?) What weight and design? If cast, what diameter did you buy? Have you mic'd them to confirm they are what they say they are?

3. What cases? Mixed, used, new--what?

4. What LOA to the assembled cartridge? Do they chamber in your barrel easily? Have you made up some dummy rounds to check function, and to check chambering?

For the moment, I'll assume that exabrial is not lubing his bullets--i.e., that they are cast bullets that are lubed--bought 'retail' somewhere. And, I'll assume they are .452--i.e., the 'standard' cast diameter. If that is so, and if you are not really seating them noticably too deep, then the 'waviness' you describe may well be normal. The case brass and the bullet lead is simply "responding to" the seating and crimping process. Now, if they do not chamber even though the crimp is properly done--then you may have another problem.

So, tell us more--

And, tell us about your recipe as well--primers and powder brand and charge weight.

Jim H.

exabrial
November 27, 2009, 08:04 PM
We need more info:

1. What dies are you using--brand; 3-die set or 4-die? How did you set up the crimp?

2. What kind of bullets are you using? (swaged-cast-plated-jacketed?) What weight and design? If cast, what diameter did you buy? Have you mic'd them to confirm they are what they say they are?

3. What cases? Mixed, used, new--what?

4. What LOA to the assembled cartridge? Do they chamber in your barrel easily? Have you made up some dummy rounds to check function, and to check chambering?

For the moment, I'll assume that exabrial is not lubing his bullets--i.e., that they are cast bullets that are lubed--bought 'retail' somewhere. And, I'll assume they are .458--i.e., the 'standard' cast diameter. If that is so, and if you are not really seating them noticably too deep, then the 'waviness' you describe may well be normal. The case brass and the bullet lead is simply "responding to" the seating and crimping process. Now, if they do not chamber even though the crimp is properly done--then you may have another problem.

So, tell us more--

And, tell us about your recipe as well--primers and powder brand and charge weight.

Jim H.
1. Using RCBS carbide dies. I've only using lube on one case out of 7 so far because it bound slightly during primer ejecting, but everything been going smooth (pardon the pun). I know the rule of oiling stuff... less is better!

2. Cast lead, not by me, some company in Ellsworth, ks. 230gr standard bullet shape. I didn't mic em to see the size, but I'll do that after steaks are off the grill here.

3. Cases are once used by me in my Dan Wesson 1911, a mix of Fiochi and 'Independence' ammo.

4. Haven't chambered yet for fear of getting er stuck, but I'll mic one and compare it against the .45acp spec and see what I get. If it checks out, I'll chamber one carefully and see what the results are.

For my reciepe, I'm doing 4.2gr of green dot with a federal premium primer. Look around, that seems to be a moderate load, am I correct?

And thank you guys, happy thanksgiving!

rfwobbly
November 27, 2009, 08:45 PM
Exabrial -
Welcome to THR and the world's greatest hobby. Some thoughts for you....

• Lubing every 7th case is just fine. Just because you don't HAVE to lube doesn't mean that adding lube doesn't make things go smoother. I lube all my cases, and if it makes you feel better, you just go right ahead.

• When using a carbide die on an auto case like the 45ACP it is quite normal to get a finished cartridge that looks like a Coke bottle. That is, it has a reduced diameter waist between the base and bullet. Is this what you're talking about?

• JFH didn't say to chamber the round. He said to dis-assemble the gun and drop the cartridge into the naked barrel. If the cartridge will drop all the way into the chamber using only its own weight then that's a good indicator it's sized correctly.

• If the cartridge will not fall all the way in and have the mouth of the case land on the end of the chamber, then it is usually an indicator that not all the "belling" has been removed. You need belling (or flair) to help seat the bullet, but then the last die has to remove it by straightening the case walls back out. The finished mouth diameter needs to be .001 or .002" smaller than the mouth diameter shown in your reloading manual.

• There's no need to fear getting it stuck. If you drop it into the naked barrel using only it's own weight, then a wooden dowel down the barrel can easily remove it.

• Don't load up 50 or you may have to take them apart. Load up 5 or 6 of each load and arrange them in a tray so you can shoot the lower loads first and then work up. The lowest load may be accurate, but may not cycle the gun reliably. Keep working up slowly until the gun works properly every time.

• Keep good notes on the OAL, powder type, amount of powder, and shooting results in a lab notebook. Anytime you change the bullet then start a new page. Pretty soon you''ll be experimenting with different bullet weights and powders. The notebook will help you remember your best loads. This is not a hobby for taking wild guesses or going on memory, so be sure to record your data and know.

Hope this helps!

jfh
November 27, 2009, 10:00 PM
rf: thank you for the elaboration on checking chambering.

xabrial: so far, I think we all are on the same page. Any questions, ask away.

Jim H.

rfwobbly
November 28, 2009, 08:26 AM
He said to dis-assemble the gun and drop the cartridge into the naked barrel.

rf: thank you for the elaboration on checking chambering.

No prob.

Besides, working with the naked barrel is my favorite part of the routine since I discovered my CZ was a "she".

:D

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